Talk:Islamic Courts Union

NPOV?

This article ignores certain information and stresses others For example the statement: "Somalia is almost entirely Muslim, and these institutions had wide public support." ignores that there were general power abuses by the authorities.

Furthermore it can be noted that since the Mid-90's Sudanese Islamist groups operating out of Somolia have been implicated in terrorist activities in Ethiopia. This whole article is stressing the incursion of Ethiopians into Somalia as if it happened in a vacuum. For instance the fact that the Sudanese Transitional Government was the only recognized government by the UN is not mentioned Once in the entire article. Furthermore there is not one mention of the attempted assassination of Yusuf Ahmed. -Which started the incursion. The article as it stands is biased.

The article is the "Islamic Courts Union" not "Islamic Fundamentalism in Somalia". Until any actual proof emerges that the ICU was in fact responsible for any of the aforementioned, other than allegations from biased parties, it does not belong here. To place unproven allegations as fact is in fact POV.

Also, in regards to the TFG being recognized by the UN, this is actually irrelevant to the ICU, as they did not "rebel" against the TFG, but carved their domains out of warlord-held territory that, if they recognized the TFG at all, largely paid lip service to the TFG. When the ICU conquered Mogadishu for instance, the TFG was initially supportive of the ICU in doing so. --Ingoman 02:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Your statement about me saying something about "Islamic Fundamentalism in Somalia" is a classic strawman fallacy. This is completely inappropriate for this forum. When I get around to it -I will add some information which will make this article less lacking. Until then, enjoy your Non Neutral POV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astrocloud (talk • contribs) 23:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Title in sidebar?

So the first line is the Somali title of the group, the second is the Arabic version, and the third line is the English translation. Is Somali written in English script, though? i question transliterating it but leaving the Arabic name in the original, if that's the case. The chavi 13:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The Somali language uses the latin alphabetYlemby 10:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Alleged military support to the ICU Section

Ylemby 02:23, 23 December 2006 (UTC) : The section Alleged military support to the ICU should be removed. Any discussions on "Allegations" for events that are currently in progress should be kept out of this article.

Strong Keep - Allegations are part of the causus belli. You have to cite the reasons why people are going to war. It is because of such claims that actions are being taken by international actors. If the claims are false, or are being refuted, that can be cited. However, to not mention this UN report that you are expirgating relevant background to the conflict, especially in regards to violation of US arms embargoes on Somalia, etc. --Petercorless 03:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

But

"

   * Flag of Venezuela Venezuela: No evidence that Venezuela provided any support but condemned the intervention by Ethiopian and US attack.

"

is ridiculous

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.210.163 (talk) 01:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Added by same person.--189.33.40.151 (talk) 22:52, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Shabab section

The paragraph on the shabab is ambiguous. It is written by two different people. So the paragraph is subjective and objective at the same time. It is positivist and negativist at the same time. It makes it hard to read for it defeats the information purpose. The first part of the paragraph is against the second part of the paragraph. COuld someone fix it? Thanks

Omega25 06:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's pretty clear, and the Shabab is a touchy subject even to ICU supporters. They're somewhat dangerous and radical, and often hard to control, but are viewed as neccisary due to their dedication to the cause. The Shabab have earned a positive and negative reputation at the same time. Positive through their military achievements on the battlefield, and negative due to their harsh, fundamentalist and sometimes even cruel behavior off the battlefield. --Ingoman 16:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, if you see it that way. Omega25 06:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Massive update

I've basically overhauled everything that's been bugging me for ages, moved the page, etc. --Ingoman 18:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

"Alledged" US support?

It's conclusively proven that the CIA was funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars to the warlords every month, making them by far their biggest supporter. A more politic solution would be to dub them the "CIA-Backed warlords", but somehow I doubt the US administration was unaware of the CIA's activities there.

Give us some evidence then? Treat this as a uni essay without evidence your claim will not be accepted as truth but a POV. Enlil Ninlil 04:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's your evidence: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/world/africa/08intel.html?ei=5088&en=7b3e5a78230b7e10&ex=1307419200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.103.6 (talk) 06:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Please remove the word "alleged". The CIA was funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars to the warlords every month. The CIA and the white house have never denied that they did support the ARPCT. No evidence is needed for this as no one has proven evidence of that fact. The white house has no proof of that, nor have you proof of the contrary. Witnesses and journalists were murdered during those subsequent visits from cia agents to mogadishu. The white house and US diplomats didn't deny it when journalists asked if they did back and fund the warlords with millions of dollars. Also major witnesses among mainstream somalis are aware of that fact. Since opposing somalis from different ideologies and different sources did confirm the ongoing channel of funds, that is enough proof. Another proof of that is from research released in a paper by the International Crisis group ===>( http://www.crisisgroup.org/)

This a well respected and international lobby group whose members are former statesmen, authors and diplomats. It has released many documents confirming the fact that the cia was aiding the warlords. If you have time, you can go into each document to see the proof. International Crisis group works with NGOs and civil society organisations on the ground for proof and information. It doesn't invent the facts. So all i said demonstrates that the warlods were supported by the CIA. However, i am sure that the white house wasn't aware of it and that CIA policy wasn't condoned by the white house. Since the CIA is a US government entity, then we can conclude that the warlords are US backed and that they were funding those rapist warlords and drug dealers. Hence, the CIA didn't care about the suffering of the somali population only of its anti-terrorism policy. Isn't that evidence enough that the warlords were backed by the CIA ? Please remove the word "Alleged"! Please remove the world "supposed" from "supposed AMerican backed warlords".

Furthermore, on september 10, 2006, THe Observer, a world reknown newspaper published links of US breaching UN regulations and engaging in covert operations. Title : US accused of covert operations in Somalia, The Observer, September 10, 2006.

SO please remove the word "supposed" in "supposed AMerican backed warlords"! Thanks

Merger

I agree absolutley....:) just... try to merge them:) Also... its called union, not militia:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ipernar (talk • contribs)

I think merger is a good idea given that there are more references. Down the track if the articles become bigger you can have an article on the movement and one on the militia but not when you have two stubs. Capitalistroadster 19:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, two supports is enough for me. I've attempted to merge Islamic Courts militia to this article. Please double check that everything relevant has come over, and that there are no redundancies here. Cheers, BT 19:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Combining the articles in one has more value.

Hussein Aideed

I removed this text from the article "Hussein Mohamed Farrah a naturalized US citizen, former member of the United States Marine Corps and the son of Mohamed Farrah Aidid currently controls southern areas of Mogadishu and prepares not to cede any control to the Islamic Court Union.[1]" Most of the sources make it quite clear that the ICU controls the entire city, and the source attached to this comes from January 2002, and is clearly out of date. I haven't been able to find much on the current situtation. This page from a week ago seems to suggest he was still in place, but last week the rest of the warlords were also still in town. - SimonP 03:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

text removal (Somali transitional government)

Ipernar removed the following text:

The only other major power in central Somalia is the Somali Transitional Government. As a result of the collapse of the warlord power the four warlord representatives in the transitional government were stripped of their cabinet posts. The transitional government is based in Baidoa, 250 kilometers from Mogadishu. Currently it is reported that the inhabitants are arming themselves, anticipating the ICU may soon try to take the town. Interim Prime Minister Ali Mohammed Ghedi states that he would like to meet with the ICU leaders.

from before the phrase "The two other major power centres in the country..." and added the line

Rest of the country is controled by other warlords.

Is there a reason for this removal? - BT 12:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Ofcourse, becouse STG has no power, nor military, nor politicaly, nor they have schools or hospitals, nor they have any control, nor they can even step in mogadishu. its just a gruop of varios warlords controling diferent parts of country, and having different agenda... They dont have common policy or agenda, they are not a group of ppl with same interests to be qualifyed as, its definetly not mayjor power:) its just a group of ppl that have power. i hope i explained:) and actually ICU is to declare a new region just like somaliland... yu must understand that STG is not governmant like governmant in gernmay. Thats why i removed stg and left somaliland and putland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.29.214.253 (talk • contribs)

Fair enough. I figured that there was a reason, but it wasn't stated in the edit summary. - BT 13:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem BT :) its.. User talk:Ipernar

I've restored this text. The STG does have control over the towns of Baidoa and Jowhar and the surrounding areas. They also have greater international resources because of their perceived legitimacy. Saying the rest of Somalia is controlled by warlords is not particularly accurate. The largest centre other than Mogadishu is Somaliland, which has a somewhat functional government. Pretty much all the warlords, even those who controlled smaller towns and rural areas, were based in their fortresses in Mogadishu and controlled their other holdings from there. If the warlords have been expelled from Mogadishu it is an open question who is in control of the rest of the country.- SimonP 15:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

text removal (Hand amputation, terrorism, etc.)

there is also thing with hand cutting, terrorism, embasy bombings and other like that.... ICU has nothing to do with that, they are not terorizing ppl or whatever, and usa even tryed to hunt those terorist in mogadishu, but they found nothing, there was even article about it... those aligations are just speculations that have no ground. I will remove that text until credible source that says that is named ... A mad warlord that is in land grab spree definetly cant be used as such:) if yu find credible source to these aligations, can put that text back but then i also want ICU response to that becouse they did respond to these aligations, you cant just put claims while not knowing who claims, and dont give other side a say... wiki has to be independant. User talk:Ipernar also at least 300ppl were killed, 80ppl was definetly some old source

hey ppl look what i found you gonna laugh to death!! They asked ICU why dont they cut off hands to ppl... chek out the explanation!!! "We don't cut people's hands off because they don't like it," Sheikh Hassan says.

I've also restored this text. The links between Al-Queda and the ICU, whether or not they exist, are one of the major issues. These allegations formed the core of the warlords' justification for fighting and are mentioned in pretty much every news story on the developments. - SimonP 15:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

title

This group seems to be changing its name every other day. An Economist article of 27 June states that they are now calling themselves the "Supreme Council of Somali Islamic Courts", while the article currently says they are now the "Conservative Council of Islamic Courts", but the title is still "Islamic Courts Union". Can someone move the article once the moniker stabilizes? - BT 15:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Social legacy

I have added a social legacy section because the Islamic courts are primarily a social movement before being a military movement and it would be unfair not to describe what the courts have brought to somalis.

True that i think that people should learn that Islamic court did good not just bad and its just unfair not to show wat they did either good or bad(there's always 2 sides of the story) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.66.200.40 (talk) 19:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

merging in from Rise of the Islamic Courts in Somalia

I proposed merging in Rise of the Islamic Courts in Somalia to the history section here as a scan of that article shows it to be a series of bullet point statements (without the bullets) with maps and an intro originally taken from this article. This article is nowhere near the length where we would need a breakout page and, at best, the subpage is misnamed (should be History of the Supreme Islamic Courts Council) and repetitious. At worst, the article is parallel to this one, with a separate narrative informing the two pages. - BanyanTree 22:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll assume the deafening silence means disagreement. I've removed the tags. - BanyanTree 00:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Courts are Sufi?

What is your source for listing of many of the courts as Sufi? It is relatively rare to find Sufis involved in political and military movements, and even more rare to find them in bona-fide Islamist organizations such as this.

The vast majority of Somalis are Sufi, this has been the case for nearly a thousand years. The Salafi courts have gotten a lot of press lately, but those adhering to Salafi interpretation are explicitly stated in a variety of reports, and there are only a couple of them. The Executive Chairman Sharif Sheikh Ahmed is the highest ranking member of the ICU and he's Sufi.

There has been some outside influence on Somali islam from Yemen and Sudan (where the minority of Salafi clerics studied) and Egypt (where the Muslim Brotherhood influence is from).

You have to be careful labelling the ICU as a "bona-fide Islamist organization", as it is a minority of the courts who are actual Islamists. Most of the Sharia legal scholars in most of the country are far too conservatively Sufi to adopt the radical and revolutionary elements of modern Salafism. The only reason the Salafi have so much support at the moment is because their support for armed struggle is succeeding, while the Sufi support for dialogue and the peace process is failing. If you want evidence for how moderate the Sufis are, the Sufi faction is even now trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement, despite the fact that full blown war is on.

If you'd like to read more about this, read this article here [2]--Ingoman 00:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

"the vast majority of somalis are suf"?...what. Take it from someone who is somali, the vast majority of somalis are not sufi. You seem to know alot about the somali people, but you definetly wrong on this one. Most somalis follow the shafi'i school of fiqh and are a mix of salafist, wahabist and just moderates who follow neither.

And sheikh sharif sheikh ahmed of the subclan Abgaal of the larger Hawiye clan is NOT Sufi. I am Somali 06:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Er, Shafi'i is an interperetation of Fiqh, but this doesn't really have to do with ideology. You can be a Sufi, Qutubi or Salafi and still follow Shafi'i Fiqh. Salafi and Sufi are not Fiqh, the only other Fiqh are Hanafi, Maliki, and Hanbali. Sufi, Salafi and Qutubi are all Sunni Islamic MOVEMENTS (though a lot of Sunni would argue that Sufis aren't Sunni at all). You are correct however in regards to the unified Fiqh that all the courts adhere to, and this has been one of the reasons the ICU has been able to work together so well. You are also correct in that Ahmed is Qutubi, not Sufi.--Ingoman 17:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

npov

The "Military commanders" section seems like a pretty clear partisan screed: "liberator", "testimony to the shrewdness, forethought and genius", etc. Just not encyclopedic. - BanyanTree 00:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I tried to make these claims as part or "there supporters say or claim" to make it more neutral and some other edits too. Enlil Ninlil 04:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Al-Turki vs. Ayro

=>Someone deleted my contributions to Hassan Hersi "Al-Turki". The minimum respect is to explain the reason of deletion. That person rolled back without any explanation. This is a lack of communication and respect. I checked into the wikipedia rules of biographies for living persons (WP:LIVING) and i found the new material appropriate for deletion. Next time, we should discuss these issues before deleting them. This is not the first time this contributor has done but in his history it shows that he has done roll-backs before without any explanations for other articles. That person also deleted the corrections i did to grammatical mistakes. Next time this happens, i will make a complaint to Wikipedia. Omega25 21:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not finding Al-Turki generally described as being the leader of Hizbul Shabaab. He definitely is part of the "core" of the ICU, but he seems to have been the straight-up leader of the forces that took the Juba Valley. Instead, Ayro (Eyrow) is listed as the leader of the Shebaab. I have put Al-Turki as the leader of the defunct AIAI. --Petercorless 00:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Banned khat

They have banned a popular drug, khat.[3] Cattus 19:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the term "Prohibition" is appropriate here, as it is a very similar case; making the use or distribution of a substance illegal on social welfare grounds.

In Lebanon

Several news sites informed that the UIC had a small contingent during the 2006 Lebanon War. I simply don't know where to insert that information. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems very much an alleged claim, as only the UN report has mentioned it. Still, it's a UN report. --Ingoman 18:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It was reported by a four-man team based in Nairobi and it doesn't look credible to many experts. [4] Maybe it would be more appropriate in the Somali Civil War (2006-present) article in a new section describing UN involvement? - Am86 19:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, it was reported by a 4-man team without knowledge of Somalia and who interviewed diplomats from their offices in Nairobi. They had interviewed biased diplomats who had their personal and political agendas. Hence, it's is not appropriate to add it into this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omega25 (talk • contribs)

Name change

An Al Jazeera article labelled them as the Somali Islamic Courts Council [SICC] [5] --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:49, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Conflict

"Currently they are in control of the majority of Somalia and the vast majority of its population," The map seems to conflict this statement, it seems they controll half of the area, excluding Puntland, Somaliland, and the area where the government is. Enlil Ninlil 03:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Somaliland isn't included since they have declared independance. --Ingoman 06:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Unrecognised at least, but I doubt the court's union recognise them. Enlil Ninlil 08:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Nice

I like the article I hope with further work it could be a FA. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Logistical support to the ICU

Please add some reference to this section. The whole section is barely useless and worth nothing if it has no refererences. I guess that the author based this section on the ridiculous paper released by the UN alledging illogical fallacies. I will try to prove some:

On May 9, a dhow arrived at the El Ahmed seaport, and on board were fighters from Pakistan and the Oromo Liberation Front of Ethiopia This is a lie. The ICU hadn't even conquered mogadishu by then. They weren't even organised How could they have greeted those fighters when the port wasn't even administered by the ICU. At that time, the El Maan port was administered by a local warlord.

Somali force was personally selected by ICU's Hizbul Shabaab (youth movement) leader Aden Hashi Farah "Eyrow." This is a joke. The leader of the shabab is Hassan Turki and not Hashi Ayrow.

In mid-July 2006, ICU sent about 720 men to Lebanon to fight alongside Hezbollah against the Israeli military. This is ridiculous and deserves no comment.

This section has to be worked on Seriously! We need to add references and only write things are certain and logical. Omega25 06:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

That UN report did deserve the criticism, just look at some of the claims. Another example here from the source provided: "On August 26, three dhows carrying 2,000 fully equipped combat troops from Eritrea arrived at Warsheikh, north of Mogadishu. On arrival at Warsheikh, the troops were moved to an area in north Mogadishu." 2,000 fully equipped combat troops on 3 dhows? I know how big a dhow is, you would need an amphibious landing ship for 2000 combat troops, this is hilarious. -Orthuberra 10:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

you see the link on the bottom of that text? --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Map of ICU structure

I added a map I made to show the structure of the ICU in Somalia, questions, comments, complaints anyone? -Orthuberra 00:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The map, along with the other map, should be updated to highlight the reversal of ICU territory due to the advancing Ethiopian forces. -- Permafrost 15:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I updated this map now if someone can get Ingoman to up his we'll be good. I left the courts locations in place, for reasons site in the comments section og the image itself. -Orthuberra 01:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I also found another logo used by the ICU and am placing it in the article for reasons that I don't know what they consider emblem if any. -Orthuberra 03:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

propaganda

the section called "social policies" was pure, unvarnished propaganda. i deleted it. look in the history if you want to see what was written there but DO NOT RESTORE IT without totally rewriting it. Benwing 04:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

It's your job to rewrite what you have a problem with. Deleting POV content is still vandalism. --Ingoman 04:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, done. I removed a number of quotes and stuff that was irrelevant and served purely to add POV. None of the basic facts were removed, although many have been moved to different sections. Benwing 23:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks! --Ingoman 03:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the "alleged military support to the ICU" a bigger lie and worse propaganda? I see that you deleted too many content in this POV and you left intact the military support to the ICU. Ok Benwing, either i report this to Wikipedia as Vandalism or you add the content back and rewrite it. The "military support to the ICU" is pure rubbish and worse propaganda then "social policies". This sums up with a one-sided POV and the article is not neutral anymore. I see that you deleted a lot of content in the social policies and this is complete vandalism. If you don't add it yourself and rewrtite it then i will add it back and we will play with that section until Wikipedia arbitrates. Thanks. Omega25 04:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Please avoid propagandistic claims of one's own subjective POV, and consider putting assertions of, found in external sources, on the propaganda page: Propaganda in the War in Somalia --Petercorless 19:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i've added back the social policies and tried to make it as neutral as possible. We can't delete that section because the Islamic courts was primarily a social movement before being a military movement. I also tried to use the POV of Mogadishu dwellers. I need help to remove the propaganda and make it as neutral as possible but we can't delete that section. I also tried to change the present tense to the past tenseOmega25 05:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I saw no reason to delete the mention of foreign nationals arriving on Somalia as mujahideen, nor any reason to delete the social policies against khat. I added back in the mention of foreign nationals. Consider restoring the section about the prohibitions against khat, as it was one of the more notable issues that was taken up by the ICU. --Petercorless 05:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Omega25, i don't know what you're referring to when you talk about military support to the icu or anything. i don't recall writing anything about this. all i did was rearrange the existing text and make it more neutral. you put back the original text without noticing that the same events are already described in the history section (my additions). capturing particular cities or opening ports/airports are not "social" policies. text to the effect that the icu's capture of mogadishu "temporarily brought hope to the inhabitants" is obvious pov. Benwing 07:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok Benwig, I agree on that. Omega25 11:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Resignations and Capitulation

This article is going to have to be revised severely in the coming weeks, as present tense moves to past tense in much of the article, and more regarding the collapse of the ICU is added. We might want to tag the article as a "Current Event." --Petercorless 21:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

See: Somalia: ICU leaders resign as Ethiopian army nears the capital SomaliNet - Dec 27, 2006

Well certainly this article should be more about what the ICU is. Who they are and what they stand for and not about the current events in Somallia. The fortunes of war are tempermental. If their supposed ally is Eritriea and Eritriea decides to attack Ethiopia + other Islamic countiries say...Sudan get involved? No this article should be about just who and what the ICU is, it's history etc. Leave the news for CNN. --Hfarmer 06:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that I think they way this particular commentator put it is best. It strikes just the right tone on the whole situation..."This may seem like good news at first glance. But it's important to remember that there aren't any good guys in Somalia. The Islamic Courts Union is actually a stabilizing force, but stabilizing because it's repressive and authoritarian. The somali government is corrupt as all hell and far too dependent on war lords who are pretty much just bandits. Ethopia doesn't really care about Somalia for Somalia's sake -- they're pretty much into this just to set back Eritrea and to keep the fight from its own borders.

"[6]--Hfarmer 07:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Relationship to Other Somalian Powers

This part shouldn't be in the History section but in another section. Maybe structure and composition. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Omega25 (talk • contribs) 12:07, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

France?

"France created the borders that created this rift. They are the sole cause of all the suffering."

Yo, eat shit clowns, the wikipedia is supposed to be non-biased online dictionary, and this statement here is nothing more than "frog hating" by so lame ass american. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.215.244.106 (talk) 17:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

Let's avoid all the vulgarities and insults, please. --Petercorless 17:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Capital or Headquarters?

In this article (and in other articles, most notably the EU), the infobox has "capital" (which in this case is Kismayo, or was until the ICU withdrew from it not too long ago). Now since the ICU isn't proclaiming itself to be a state, but is rather an organization running (or that was running) most of state, shouldn't the word "headquarters" be used in place of "capital"? (ditto for the European Union article)72.27.58.20 22:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

With wikipedia being a worldwide site, receieving hits from all over the world, their may be words or phases in this article that may support ICU.

We need to avoid POV, whether it's support for the ICU or opposition. Most likely, we will get more of the later then the former Nil Einne 05:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

flags

for anyone interested, the text in both of the icu flags is the shahada -- "laa 'ilaaha 'illaa llaah, wa muHammadun rasuula llaah". (there is no god but God, and Muhammad is God's prophet) Benwing 06:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes indeed. I had wondered whether we should have put the Shahadah as the "motto" of the ICU, barring anything else. --Petercorless 08:06, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yusuf Siad Inda'ade

I trimmed this section. I noted someone had come in and written a note about how he was considered a traitor to the ICU and that he might be hiding in Eritrea or elsewhere in the Middle East. Such claims need to be backed by cited references. I also took out the term "cynics" to avoid a POV assertion and simply observed the ICU bypassed his territory to attack Kismayo before he incorporated his forces with the ICU. --Petercorless 20:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Omar Abdalla Ali

There is an Omar Abdalla Ali listed as part of the Court of Banadir for Returning Forcefully Taken Fixed Assets, and an Abdalla Ali in charge of the Gubta court. Are they the same person? --Petercorless 07:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahmed Yusuf -- the same?

Is "Ahmed Yusuf" listed as ICU leader in North Galcayo the same as Ahmed Yusuf, the formerly-listed-as-al-Qaeda-supporting Swedish citizen? Or different? --Petercorless 07:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it, considering he's a citizen of Puntland. --Ingoman 07:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I made two different entries on the page List of Somalians. --Petercorless 10:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Map Change

The map needs changing to one that shows the current situation. I don't have time now to find an alternative but I think that the War in Somalia (2006–present) page has more updated ones. 80.189.206.176 20:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Country?

The Islamic Courts Union probably does not rate an "Infobox Country" considering it was never truly a nation in its own right. It was always part of "Somalia." It should likely get something like the Template:Infobox_Somali_faction, as a faction of the Somali Civil War. What do you think? --Petercorless 06:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

agree. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 18:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixed then. Template:Infobox_Somali_faction is applied. --Petercorless 08:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Transitional Government

What I don't understand is that in this article it says that the courts union was formed (united) to form a rival government to hte transtional government and this was about 2000 I understand but the Transitional government wasn't formed till 2004 to my knowledge therfore I would assume that the statement is incorrect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.211.102.60 (talk) 05:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

It has to do with the confusion between the Transitional National Government (TNG) and the Transitional Federal Government.

• The Transitional National Government (TNG) was formed in April-May 2000 at the Somalia National Peace Conference (SNPC) in Djibouti. It had the following:
  • 2000: Election of Abdiqasim Salad Hassan as President by the tribal/faction representatives
  • 2001: a failed attempt at a National Commission for Reconciliation and Property Settlement
  • 2002: a somewhat successful Somali Reconcilliation Conference in Eldoret, Kenya

• The Transitional Federal Government (TFG) was formed in November 2004 in Nairobi Kenya with the following all accomplished by the end of the sessions:
  • Selection of 275 Parliament members
  • Approval of the Transitional Federal Charter (TFC)
  • Election of Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed as President by the Parliament
  • Appointment of the Council of Ministers, including Prime Minister Ghedi

I'll add this to the TFG page. --Petercorless 06:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Official Website?

Not working. It says coming soon, may be a parked page. I don't think they have a website. Is there connectivity in Somalia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.198.210.123 (talk) 00:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Of course there is connectivity, Somalia is one of the most wired countries in east Africa, and their website was up for a long time. It went down shortly after the government entered Mogadishu so they probably forced the ISP to close down the site. According to law however the domain still belongs to them. --Ingoman 01:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The .so domain system has not been used, but Somalia definitely gets Internet access. They had a bomb explosion at an Internet café not too long ago. For the ICU domain, according to a "whois" lookup, they are registered at Domains by Proxy, Inc. out of Phoenix AZ. DomainsByProxy.com, admin email: [email protected]. Something tells me they probably are not answering emails at the present time. --Petercorless 05:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

Why did you change the infobox from an Infobox of a war faction to an Infobox of a country? The Honorable Kermanshahi 19:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Mainly due to the fact that it is difficult to represent the relevant information in a civil war faction template, and also as the ICU's administration had more state-like attributes than faction-like. --Ingoman 19:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Suicide Bombings, bias?

Sorry if I'm not following precise wiki etiquette, but I'm in the midst of writing a term paper that deals with the Islamic Courts Union and I noticed that the section on suicide bombings is flawed, or at least biased. Specifically, the claim the the ICU had a role in the bombings is not substantiated by any of the citations. Citation 39 actually indicates that the ICU denied any connections to suicide bombings. Furthermore, a previous section in this page ("Other foreign fighters") roughly outlines a thesis that I can confirm is widely accepted by historians of Somalia, which is that Somalian Islamic practice is not characterized by fanaticism or a tendency to practice suicide bombings at all. Though "Suicide bombers" section is accurate that suicide bombings have happened following the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia, it should not describe the bombers as affiliated with ICU unless it can establish a positive connection. For further reference, Hassan Mahadallah's article "The Islamic Courts, Ethiopia's Intervention in Somalia, and Its Implicatoins for Regional Stability" appearing in Horn of Africa volume XXV (2007) outlines the history of the ICU and carefully discusses its (non) relation to al Qaeda and other global terrorist organizations. Jcmeyers (talk) 06:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC) I went ahead and took out the references to the ICU, but absent the establishment of a connection to the ICU I don't see why this section should be included. I'm a newb, though, so I'll leave it to a wiki veteran to make the call on deleting it. I did, however, delete the section about the declaration of jihad. That is a quote from Sheikh Aweys, a prominent member of the ICU who was also largely responsible for its unification. he said it in a speech on October 23, 2006 specifically in response to the Ethiopian invasion, which itself occurred against the background of a long history of Ethiopian aggression towards Somalia. The way the quote was deployed prior to deletion wrongly implied that Aweys was calling for a global Jihad, specifically a generalized campaign of terrorism. It indicated that that quote was an index of "worsening conditions." Though I suppose this is technically accurate, the context was unclear and it again seemed to be using the quote indexed the increased number of suicide bombings. Jcmeyers (talk) 06:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent observations and well-spotted. I've removed the irrelevant passages. Middayexpress (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

G.I.M.S

What does mean the abbreviature on the emblem?--79.111.6.28 (talk) 04:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• It is actually "G.M.I.S." That stands for "Golaha Maxkamadaha Islaamiga Soomaaliya," which is translated as "Union (of) Courts Islamic Somalia," hence the English derivation: "Islamic Courts Union (ICU) of Somalia." --Petercorless (talk) 22:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

  In which language is it?--79.111.95.35 (talk) 23:00, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

  It is in Somali. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.150.160.26 (talk) 20:56, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Update Needed

Much of this was written in the 2005-2007 time frame, back before the ICU made its dramatic shift of alliance to work with, rather than against, the Transitional Federal Government. I'll try to pitch in to update this document, segregating history from present-state. --Petercorless (talk) 22:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Some updates added. In particular, the mention of how the ICU went from the TFG's enemy on the battlefield to its political ally. I keep seeing the article fall into "present tense" which was true back in 2005-2007, but is now misleading. The History section is a particular mess. It slips gears from historical timeline to subject-oriented organization -- tossing together events of Eritrea's involvement of 1999 and 2007 all in the same area, while events of 2000-2006 are left for later. --Petercorless (talk) 23:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Nick-D (talk) 05:29, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

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Individual Court Names

I have removed the table of individual court names. I was unable to locate sources for any of the facts. In addition, the table had many cells filled in with a question mark; it did not appear to be a valuable addition to the article. I have also tagged the article to be updated as this appears to only cover events until around 2006. Feel free to let me know if you disagree with my actions. SoftHiss (talk) 20:54, 19 February 2020 (UTC)