Talk:Illiteracy Will Prevail

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 September 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was merge to Fecal Matter (band).

This article was nominated for deletion. Review prior discussions if considering re-nomination:

Deletion discussions:
no consensus, 2008 July 29, see discussion. no consensus, November 25, 2006, see discussion.

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Errors[edit]

However, the only known copy of the tape is in possession of Courtney Love and Frances Bean Cobain, and Love has said the tape is "not for sale".

this is not true: Dale Crover had a copy of the tape, and if you believe Kurt & Courtney Cobains Aunt Mary had one too.

The Fecal Matter version of "Downer" was released on a series of bootlegs entitled "Outcesticide" in 1994. How this version of "Downer" was found remains unknown.

This is false, the Fecal Matter version of this song does not appear on that boodleg series, Downer appears on Outcesticide:

Volume I: track #2 recorded January 23, 1988 this is the same as on Bleach and Incesticide
Volume V: track #13: recorded on April 17, 1987 KAOS radio performance

On March 2006, most of the demo was leaked onto LimeWire by an unknown source. All of the songs were determined authentic. The songs still missing are "Class of '86", "Blathers Log", "Instramental", "Turnaround", and the sound collages.

... However, after the 2006 leak, the real tracklist was found and posted onto the Internet. Although there has been some controversy over it, this list fits both the With The Lights Out and Ziegler's descriptions to some extent.

"Sound Of Dentage" – 3:29
"Bambi Slaughter" – 3:33
"Laminated Effect"
"Spank Thru" – 3:49
"Buffy's Pregnant" – 4:15
"Downer" – 3:05
"Class Of '86"
"Blathers Log"
"Instramental"
"Accusations" – 2:36
"Punk Rocker" – 3:55
"Vaseline" – 2:05
"Anorexorcist" – 8:54
"Control" – 1:28
"Turnaround" – 3:06
Sound collage
Guitar riffs

Let me get this straight: the tracklist of the leak includes the titles (and in case of Turnaround even the length) of songs that are not part of the leak? That sounds poorly sourced to me...

I would tend to agree with the unsigned commentary above. It all seems far too convenient, not to mention unbelievable. By the by, who has deemed these recordings (which are not circulated, by the way) "authentic"? Further, IIRC Kurt's aunt Mari Earl (not Mary) said that she's destroyed (burned?) her copy of the demo(s?) along other Kurt memorabilia -- the lyrics to "Seaside Suicide" for starters -- stating that the stuff had "bad vibes" connected to them. Or something, I can't recall where I picked this up, and I can't provide any sources for this, so don't take this as the truth, just as something to ponder. I might be able to dig up some references to all this, but for the moment being I'd like to state -- for the record -- that there are no known copies being neither traded nor circulated of the demo. For what it's worth, the FM/IWP demo must be the most faked demo on the planet, bar none. It's right up there with the mythical Jimi Hendrix/Jim Morrison recordings. (Yes, I do know there's that live recording with the PG-13 title recorded by said gentlemen, but I think you get my point.) --Tirolion 13:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

^^Mike Ziegler is a trader from Seattle who is a roadie for the Melvins, Dale Crover's band. He has leaked innumerable amounts of live shows and recording sessions that otherwise would have never seen the light of day (and to this day are still officially unreleased). Six years ago he gave all the information that serves as the basis for these tracklistings as he acquired a copy of the demo from Crover himself, but due to Crover's wishes has not traded it out to this day. Later he too destroyed his copy of the tape. He is the one who confirmed that the clips leaked by William Clarke, as well as the 3 full songs that were leaked, are authentic. And frankly, any Nirvana trader will tell you that Mike does not lie. Case in point--April Fool's Day last year, he put up a previously unheard 1988 Nirvana show for download and everyone thought it was a big hoax. Turned out that in fact it was real, and on top of that it was a soundboard.

Cheers for the info, nameless. Ya, I don't doubt Ziegler's veracity for a second, seeing as he most assuredly has absolutely no reason to lie about this stuff. However, it does seem kinda strange -- bordering on completely unbelievable -- that the same guy (Clarke) who's hoaxed a lot of people with a fake demo all of a sudden can offer the real thing. Oh, by the by, where can I assess that Ziegler has destroyed his copy of the demo? I sure haven't read or heard anything about such a monumental event. Be that as it may, Ziegler has indeed provided a wealth of valuable material to the trading community. Still, the entire shady matter (pun intended) seems a bit too convoluted and convenient (did I mention unbelievable?). But yes, I've heard the clips, and they do sound like Cobain et al. The same sound, the same fuzzbox-straight-into-the-input guitar distortion, the same voice, the same type of song structures, all in all quite exactly the same as the officially released Spank Thru track. One cannot help but wonder, though, if Clarke really has a copy, why just release a few selected clips? Where's the rest? Who has them? It don't make no sense. The mystery thickens, guys and gals.--Tirolion 10:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just so you all know, you can listen to most of the demo on YOU-frickin'-TUBE. Ok! 04:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clark was framed. Wiki should stop perpetuating the myth that he is the originator of the poor quality clips. Those clips were obtained while someone played the tape and it was recorded covertly, with the talking edited out to protect the sources. Again, Clark was framed and/or complicit. My independent research has revealed this, although it can not be properly cited here at Wiki AFAIK. Timewalk92 (talk) 17:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I think all mentions of this guy William Clarke should be removed. Who cares if he faked a demo and is also taking credit for leaking clips? That's not enough to give his name enough notoriety to be listed. Wikipedia quite frequently deletes entire entries on things more well-recognized than this Mr. Clarke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.14.164 (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done, let's keep this crap off Wikipedia. Those interested in the full story of Clarke's notoriety can check the more in-depth info over at LiveNirvana.com Timewalk92 (talk) 20:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]