Talk:How to Win Friends and Influence People/Archive 1

This may be a copy of a web page

http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/carnegie/win-friends.html

"Content must not violate any copyright"

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Supremedalek (talk • contribs)

Looks like it, yes. Removed. --Delirium 00:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

the web page is a copy of the book's section summaries, and the book's out of copyright? so the copyright can't be violated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.148.189.52 (talk) 14:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Why was the "References in popular culture" section removed?

I thought that was cool trivia! 69.236.50.57 (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussing the book more

Shouldn't this article discuss the book more, rather than just give a list of sections and points? For instance its influence in society, whether modern psychologists agree with the book, controversy etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.145.49 (talk) 23:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The "main principles" give WP:Undue weight

--68.161.181.109 (talk) 11:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Date

It hardly seems possible that Toby Young's book was written in 1937 considering he wasn't born until the 60's. It is also incorrectly attributed. I am removing this section altogether. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.19.103.90 (talk) 17:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Pun?

"The 2008 film How to Lose Friends and Alienate People is titled as a pun on the book's title"

It is not really a pun. Perhaps spoof or malapropism or some other word would be more appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.153.29.23 (talk) 00:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Last section

That last section is not part of the book. I suggest we remove it, or at least mark it as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dearsina (talk • contribs) 09:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The last section of the book is from the 1936 edition and has been checked against the text. From NPV guidelines I think that noting the differences and calling out that nature of the material left out or changed in the 1981 edition in a straightforward manner suffices. If there are more examples they can be quoted directly within fair use limits. Markllo (talk) 23:54, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The newer editions have been sanitized for unPC ideas, according to [1]. Worth mentioning? --Nnp 19:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

In principle, yes, but that's not a very in-depth citation, and there are no specifics there. --♥ «Charles A. L.» 12:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

deserves a note at best, it was the original that is famous and the original that is mainly in circilation (at least I find it hard to get in a new book store, but many second hand stores stock ((mainly)) the 80s one) JayKeaton 10:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

References in pop culture

The entry in the pop references list "The title of the Broadway musical How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying is reminiscent of How to Win Friends and Influence People" seems a little far fetched to me. The book on which the musical is based came out in 1952, I reckon the genre of "How to ..." books must have been pretty well established by then. I suggest we remove the entry. Thoughts on this? --Georgepauljohnringo (talk) 22:47, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Since no one protested, I removed the entry. --Georgepauljohnringo (talk) 12:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

This page needs a reception and critical reception section

It needs a section detailing sales history, and a section containing critical assessment of the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.235.105.2 (talk) 21:20, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Commas debate

I've decided to move the discussion opened at User_talk:Froid#Commas to this more public forum, so others can weigh in. Froid (talk) 00:49, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean at all by pointing me to that link. Re the comma changes: Comma#Before quotations says that not all writers habitually put commas before quotations (I don't and most Wikipedians don't seem to). Regarding the second change, Common Errors in English Usage says: read your sentence aloud. If it doesn’t seem natural to insert a slight pause or hesitation at the point marked by the comma, it should probably be omitted." A pause after "Charles Manson used what he learned from the book in prison ..."seems remarkably unnatural to me. Graham87 01:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

"How to Shoot Friends and Interrogate People"

At the bottom of the page is "US President Barack Obama, at both the 2009 and 2011 White House Correspondents Dinners, joked that Cheney could write, "How to Shoot Friends and Interrogate People"". I don't see a citation and this sounds made up. Although, if it isn't, that's pretty awesome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.69.143 (talk) 76.126.69.143

That is not made up. I can't attest for the exact time and place he made that joke, but I did see him say it in a speech (that was more a stand-up comedy routine than an actual speech) on YouTube. The Republican audience was not amused, thus making it even funnier. However, what I'm concerned about is that there is no criticism of this book. It's complete rubbish, and none of its techniques work.68.42.32.128 (talk) 01:52, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Was this book banned in the USSR?

A Russian told me it was nigh on impossible even today for him to get a copy of the book. Kdammers (talk) 15:59, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Sales

I have changed the sales numbers form an unattested 30 million to a referenced 15 million. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:55, 26 July 2018 (UTC).

Did Napoleon Hill precede Dale Carnegie? (no)

The Origins section starts with:

"Before How to Win Friends and Influence People was released, the genre of self-help books had an ample heritage. Authors such as Napoleon Hill, Orison Swett Marden, and Samuel Smiles had enormous success with their self-help books in the late 19th and early 20th centuries."

Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich was published in 1937, a year after How to Win Friends and Influence People. He had some other books published prior to that, but so did Dale Carnegie. Carnegie started publishing earlier than Hill.

If anything I think it's better to say they were contemporaneous, publishing in the same era.

And there are better predecessors to point to than Hill - people like Russell Conwell (Acres of Diamonds) and the Chautauqua movement. Or Carnegie's influences listed in https://www.amazon.com/Self-help-Messiah-Carnegie-Success-America-ebook/dp/B009MYB80Q . As a Man Thinketh, and so on.

Lauchlanmack (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

The current origin story is a bit misleading ...

The origin story in the Origin section describes a period between 1912, when Carnegie started teaching public speaking, up to 1936 when the book was published and then the two years after.

That's a period of 26 years - a quarter of a century.

It's a period that included WW1 and the Great Depression.

What happened isn't really as simple as the current Origin section makes it seem.

Carnegie started his speaking training business as a sideline, but still kept working in a day job as a salesman ... then a couple of years later quit the sales job and focused on the speaking training business full time.

He did a bit of writing for magazines.

Then WWI came along and he stopped his business and served in the army for a couple of years.

When that finished he went on an international speaking tour for someone else for another couple of years, then he got married and lived in Europe for a few years and did some writing on other book projects, then he came back to New York and restarted his speaking training business, then he wrote magazine articles and hosted a national radio show to grow his profile, and then after all of that he published his How to Win Friends book.

It's not quite as simple as 'he started a speaking training business at the Y and it boomed from there.'

This section could be a little more realistic in my opinion. e.g. google for the various Dale Carnegie bio articles, or read https://www.amazon.com/Self-help-Messiah-Carnegie-Success-America-ebook/dp/B009MYB80Q

Lauchlanmack (talk) 10:52, 12 March 2020 (UTC)