Talk:Holy Week in Seville

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Needs a lot of work[edit]

It's not only the translation, which is awful, the article is almost ininiteligible for non-spaniards (and even for many of them). I'll try to bring it in better shape, but any help would be welcome (I have a lot of doubts on correct english translation of many specialized terms) --Wllacer 12:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - the English is awful, but I'm grateful to those who've at least tried to contribute. Keep it up please. At the moment some sections of the article could be taken directly to Uncyclopedia... hilarious stuff! - 62.158.100.179 16:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


"Pasos", gilded and silver plated[edit]

I wasn't planning to touch the article until next week, but today was free; bad weather has left all the processions home -I'll have to add this particular into the article-; so I made a couple of small changes everywhere. A correction from User:Inkiness has caught my eye, but i hestitate to undo or rewrite (for now) While there is some variations for Christ or Mistery floats (some mahogany, most fully gilded, and even one wood with some silver -can't remember exactly which, except it was a brotherhood de negro (black dressed, extremely serious)- If I can recall , ALL Virgin floats are silver plated, even the new brotherhood. At least one is partly gilded (La Lanzada, i had the chance to view it with great detail in its church). Anybody has more details/ info ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wllacer (talk • contribs) 00:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The original statement which sparked the above comment was (emphasis mine):

The structure of the paso is richly carved and decorated with fabric, flowers and candles. Many of the structures carrying the image of Christ are gilded, and those carrying the image of the virgin often silver-plated

There is only a clear exception: The structure for the V. Loreto of the San Isidoro brotherhood is fully gilded (on a silver surface ?). On the other hand the structure for the Christ of Pasion is entirely silver plated. As usual, every rule has its exception. --Wllacer (talk) 10:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Via Crucis to the Cruz del Campo[edit]

I've done a lot of work recently on the closely related Via Crucis to the Cruz del Campo. Someone working on this article should take a good look at the sources I've cited there, especially Isidoro Moreno Navarro, La Antigua Hermandad de los Negros de Sevilla, on the official site of the Hermandad de los Negritos (Antigua, Pontificia y Franciscana Hermandad y Cofradía de Nazarenos del Santísimo Cristo de la Fundación y Nuestra Señora de los Ángeles) and Romulaldo de Gelo, El Humilladero, el Via Crucis y la Ermita de la Cruz del Campo, degelo.com. An interesting passave from the latter:

Sánchez Herrero, en su libro “La Semana Santa de Sevilla”, señala que: “El Via Crucis de la Cruz del Campo, que desde el siglo XVI se solía organizar los viernes de Cuaresma, en las fiestas de la Cruz y en tiempos de sequía, epidemias y guerras, se había convertido en el siglo XVIII en “verdadera mascarada, con escándalos y desórdenes, tanto que la indecencia con que se presentaban algunos nazarenos, desnudos bajo las túnicas asaz cortas y transparentes, como por el bullicio y algazara que con bromas y risas promovían mujeres de moralidad dudosa”. Añade El cronista que “la gente acudía a divertirse como en feria o verbena, haciendo su agosto los vendedores de comestibles y bebidas”

Sánchez Herrero, in his book La Semana Santa de Sevilla ("Holy Week in Seville"), indicates that: “The Via Crucis to the Cruz del Campo, which since the 16th century had been used to organize the Fridays of Lent, in the festivals of the cross (see es:Fiesta de las Cruces) and in times of drought, epidemic, and war, had been converted in the 18th century into a “veritable masquerade, with scandals and disorders, while the indecency with which some Nazarenes presented, naked under very short and transparent tunics, as the noise and clamor with that, with jokes and laughter that exalted women of questionable morality”. The chronicler added that “the people came to have fun as fair or verbena, with vendors, food and beverage doing a roaring trade”

Carlos J. Romero Mensaque, Cuatrocientos años de las primeras normas eclesiásticas sobre la Semana Santa en la Diócesis de Sevilla: El Sínodo del Cardenal Niño de Guevara de 1604, on the site El Rosario en Sevilla, indicates that similar goings-on were the cause of an earlier reform in 1604. Romero Mensaque is clearly a source to reckon with, since his work is quoted at some length on the site of the Consejo General de Hermandades y Cofradías de Sevilla.

One or the other article (Holy Week in Seville or Via Crucis to the Cruz del Campo should touch on this history; I think it probably belongs in this one, but if you think it belongs in the other, feel free to add it somewhere appropriate there, or ping me and I'll try to work it in. - Jmabel | Talk 07:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joe. The accusation of "improperty" and "scandal" seems to have been a meme around "blood penitents" (flagellants) for much of its existence. As your sources point it was one of the stated reasons of the 1604 reform AND of its final supression in Spain during Charles III kingdom. An interesting glimpse is Joseph Blanco White's description in his Letters from Spain (look at [1]). Blanco was a (rather unusual) Sevilla native.
Somehow the meme did not leave Sevilla's Holy Week during the XIX and XX century. Probably the best known realization is Eugenio Noel's Semana Santa en Sevilla (1916). While Noel was a known "modernizer", much the same critiques were common at integrist circles
Even today, the popular image outside Andalucia about Sevilla's Holy Week keeps much of this view, although it barely responds to reality nowadays. This is one of the reasons why i refrained to include such references in the article. Others were a dearth of info I could gather for the XIX century evolution (Blanco's description of it -which might show how it was celebrated around 1800- has absolutely nothing in common with the current state) and the reform the Holy Week underwent from its modern low point (probably around 1910) until today
BTW of all brotherhood webs, the one from the Negritos is the most fascinating from an historical point of view, in many realms. --Wllacer (talk) 13:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Appeal to contributor to avoid an edit war[edit]

I've seen the last few days some updates which seem to look like an edit war As I see it, the question is one more of more or less detail at some entries. I beg everyone, if there is some doubt please let's discuss it here before triggering the undo / delete button, or at least give some hint of why something was done

i just reverted the last change by User:Gen Decilmus because it left the introduction of the article without some approach of a definition. May not be the best text ... but better than nothing.--Wllacer (talk) 11:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reverting the Cristo de Burgos entry[edit]

An anonymous user changed the entry of the Cristo de Burgos confrary, but sadly, it seems to have mixed data from -probably- La Vera+Cruz. If the contributor thinks the desaparition/reorganization stuff belongs to the Cristo de Burgos, can please provide his/her sources here?

I've deleted the reference to silence, as is common with the ruan brotherhoods. IIRC There is only explicit reference to it in the El Silencio, for obvious -for those knowledgable- reasons. I've kept his reference to the image, though --Wllacer (talk) 11:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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