Talk:Harriet Low

A fact from Harriet Low appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 January 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Harriet Low (pictured) caused a diplomatic incident when she entered the banned port of Canton dressed as a boy?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2012/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Harriet Low.

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Nonsense![edit]

This sort of stuff offends me. Please do not refer to a woman of 20 as a "young (American) girl". She was not a "young girl". It is horribly paternalistic and utterly chauvinist to refer to her as such, and even more so to make front page DYK with it!

She was with another woman. One of them was about twenty, the other one was about thirty. Bending the facts in order to use the word "first" as in "the first young girl" is really inappropriate. Both women were of marriageable age, and indeed many women have several children before they reach the age at which Harriet went to China.

A "young" girl might be one of four to six, i.e. no longer a baby, definitely a girl, but a "young" one.

Call Harriet a "young woman" if you must insert an adjective. Her aunt could also be called also a "young woman" unless she had children and was referred to as a "matron"

Amandajm (talk) 04:44, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You might object to the formulation but the reference cited tells us she was "the first recorded young American girl to live in China". I am not sure she was the first American woman of any age. I will therefore call her a "young American woman" which I think should convey the correct message. - Ipigott (talk) 07:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I observe that the writer of the article has a Portuguese name, which might bear on the mode of expression. If the article has been translated, this might account for it.

As I have pointed out, both the women might be regarded as "young" women. Harriet, at 20, or even 19 was not a "young girl". So what does the author mean? if she was the "first something-or-other" the the first what? Because neither "young girl" or "young woman" holds true in the statement.

Can I suggest that she was in fact the first "unmarried" European woman, i.e Miss Low, or Senorina Low. To the Portuguese writer this fact would be all the more remarkable since she was not there with her own father. The writer comments on the fact that the descriptions in the women's letters are filtered by their respective backgrounds. The author may also have a "filter" of sorts, in his perception of Harriet. How long ago was this source written? That, too, can affect the language being used to describe Harriet.

Amandajm (talk) 04:40, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked the date and it doesn't seem relevant.

I also noticed that Harriet's parents considered that she had the right to make up her own mind about going abroard with her uncle and family. This in itself indicates that she was considered "adult".

Amandajm (talk) 04:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Amandajm, I wonder why you're still talking about "young girl" when it's not in the article anymore? BTW, one of the early books about her refers to her as a "spinster", or unmarried young woman. Maybe that's how we should write it: "the first young unmarried American woman to live in China"? Best, Yoninah (talk) 13:50, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your proposed wording. Amandajm (talk) 02:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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