Talk:Harold Camping/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2014

I am part of Wikipedia for a long time. I was going to ask that if it is okay to let me edit the Harold Camping article. I am asking you in a respectful manner. I want to make a few changes in his life story, but they must be real. Thank you

Highlymedia (talk) 17:50, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Since the article is protected, you can't just request to edit it. You need to specify what items specifically you want changed and what reliable sources support the change. —C.Fred (talk) 17:55, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
I am part of Wikipedia for a long time. -- There's no evidence of that. -- 24.254.86.34 (talk) 19:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Missing data

In the section "The Biblical Calendar of History", the article says that Camping "surmised" that begat referred to a descendant rather than a direct son. However, the Bible does hint at this in Matthew chapter 1 two times "and Joram begat Ozias." and "and Josias begat Jeconias...". Should this be mentioned in the article?68.100.116.118 (talk) 02:28, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 October 2015

In the fist paragrah, there is "false prophesy". This doesn't sound very neutral. Should we scare quote the word "false"?

 Not done There is no use of the phrase "false prophesy" in the article at all - and the article has not been altered since 13 September.
The phrase "failed predictions", which is used, seems NPoV - they were predictions, and they failed - Arjayay (talk) 11:44, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You're wrong. Here is the first paragraph. Notice the bold text and look at the italic phrase:

Harold Egbert Camping (July 19, 1921 – December 15, 2013) was an American Christian radio broadcaster, author and evangelist.[1] Beginning in 1958, he served as president of Family Radio, a California-based radio station group that broadcasts to more than 150 markets in the United States. In October 2011, he retired from active broadcasting following a stroke, but still maintained a role at Family Radio until his death.[2] Camping is notable for issuing multiple failed predictions of dates for the End Times, which temporarily gained him a global following and millions of dollars of donations.[4][5][6]

Camping predicted that Jesus Christ would return to Earth on May 21, 2011, whereupon the saved would be taken up to heaven in the rapture, and that there would follow five months of fire, brimstone and plagues on Earth, with millions of people dying each day, culminating on October 21, 2011, with the final destruction of the world.[7][8] He had previously predicted that Judgment Day would occur on or about September 6, 1994.[9][10][11]

His prediction for May 21, 2011, was widely reported, in part because of a large-scale publicity campaign by Family Radio, and it prompted ridicule from atheist organizations[12] and rebuttals from Christian organizations.[13] After May 21 passed without the predicted incidents, Camping said he believed that a "spiritual" judgment had occurred on that date, and that the physical Rapture would occur on October 21, 2011, simultaneously with the final destruction of the universe by God.[14] Except for one press appearance on May 23, 2011, Camping largely avoided press interviews after May 21, particularly after he suffered a stroke in June 2011.[15] October 21, 2011, passed without the predicted apocalypse, leading to comments that Camping's ministry would collapse after the false prophecy.[16][17]

Camping was reported to have retired from his position at Family Radio on October 16, 2011,[18] only days before his last predicted date for the end of the world. However, his daughter later clarified that he had not retired outright, but was maintaining a role at Family Radio while working from home.[2] Camping admitted in a private interview that he no longer believed that anybody could know the time of the Rapture or the end of the world, in stark contrast to his previously staunch position on the subject.[18] In March 2012, he stated that his attempt to predict a date was "sinful", and that his critics had been right in emphasizing the words of Matthew 24:36: "of that day and hour knoweth no man". He added that he was now searching the Bible "even more fervently...not to find dates, but to be more faithful in [his] understanding."[19] After the failure of Camping's prophecies, Family Radio suffered a significant loss of assets, staff and revenue.[20]

Also, concerning your latter words, the "predictions" were more of interpretations of a religious text than true predictions. Hence, "incorrect interpretations" would be more accurate than "failed predictions". However, that is not my point. I only say so because you mentioned it. 68.100.116.118 (talk) 03:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

The sources clearly describe it as a false prophecy. Stickee (talk) 04:04, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

But this violates Wikipedia's | Avoid stating opinions as facts.. The sources are not unbiased either. One says "We can all let out a sigh of relief, the Apocalypse doesn't seem to be now after all". And the other claims "Harold Camping is a false prophet". Thus, neither of them is purely neutral. They clearly side with a point of view rather than just stating unbiased facts.[[Special:Contributions/68.100.116.118|68.100.116.118] (talk) 05:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: It seems quite clear that the article and the cited sources are just stating unbiased facts. It is not an opinion that Camping made a prophecy that did not come true, it is fact. Not sure how it is un-neutral to call a false prophecy a false prophecy. Cannolis (talk) 07:18, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

But a false prophesy is not the only explanation. Others might think it a mistake. By calling it a false prophesy, Wikipedia is favoring one religious view over another. "Failed prediction" or "erroneous teaching" would both be neutral, but "false prophesy" comes close to being preachy. Sorry for repeatedly continuing this request, but I feel "false prophesy" is preachy and biased. You say they are unbiased facts, but if you you look at the language, the sources contain points of view mixed with facts. If it fails again, I might have to take this to the "Neutral point of view/Noticeboard". Perhaps I will do so right now. 68.100.116.118 (talk) 17:11, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussion now at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Harold Camping - Arjayay (talk) 19:11, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Please add Category:Ig Nobel Prize winners

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2015

In the Section titled "Teachings," third paragraph it states that "This stems from Mark 4:34, which states that Jesus did not speak to the disciples without using parables." This may have been Harold Camping's teaching, but in fact, the Bible Verse Mark 3:34 says just the opposite; that Jesus only spoke to others or outsiders in parables, but he explained everything to his disciples. Looking further back in the passage to Verses 10 and 11, Mark wrote, "And when he was alone, the twelve that were with him asked him the parable. And he said to them: To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all things are done in parables." Later, after telling several parables to the crowds, in Verse 34 Mark says, "And without parable he did not speak unto them" (meaning the crowds)"; but apart, he explained all things to his disciples."

These quotes are from the Douay-Reihms version of the Bible but these passages are similar in all versions. Davidlb7702 (talk) 20:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Closing as this request has sat for a month without an answer. Once your account is 4 days old and has 10 edits you are free to edit the article. a boat that can float! (happy holidays) 09:55, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Multiple? That's not just reaching, that's lying.

Full Disclosure: I f***ing hate Harold Camping. I have for years (the '90's at least). That said, the use of the term "multiple predictions" is as dishonest as his "prophecy" was; There was two. You need not be dishonest, just put "two" instead of "multiple," implying he was some kind of three-card monty dealer hustling "suckers" on 5th Avenue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.85.167 (talk) 01:50, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

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