Talk:Halyna Hutchins

A file containing photo of Halyna Hutchins has been deleted

I appended to the article's infobox a photograph of Halyna Hutchins which can be seen here and can be found at File:Halyna Hutchins.jpg. The addition was immediately reverted with the edit summary, (Reverted 1 edit by Roman Spinner (talk): Invalid to use fair use image 1 day after death. 0 effort has been made to look for a free image). If other editors agree that an existing file should be a part of the infobox, discussion can be started on this issue. Another file photo, used for the infobox of the Russian Wikipedia entry may be also considered for use. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:13, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts, as far as using ru:Файл:Галина Хатчинс.jpg image, I think it would be bettershowing her at work and kinda what she was doing. (idk) - FlightTime (open channel) 00:07, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

My appreciation also for your comment. I likewise feel that Russian Wikipedia's Файл:Галина Хатчинс.jpg would be a better fit for the infobox than the current file that was initially used in Ukrainian Wikipedia, but there appears to be a technical issue with the Russian file's transfer to English Wikipedia even when it is submitted as File:Галина Хатчинс.jpg. Perhaps the Russian file would no longer resist transfer if its content could be copied into English as, for instance, File:Halyna.jpg or File:H. Hutchins.jpg. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:48, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

The infobox image's non-free use is currently be discussed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 October 22#File:Halyna Hutchins.jpg and it would be best to keep all discussion related to the file's use there if possible. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:30, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

There is also an edit warring noticeboard discussion about Stephen's repeated removal of the image at WP:AN3#User:Stephen reported by User:Sandstein (Result: ). Sandstein 10:33, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2021

Halyna Hutchins was shot on the 22nd GMT not the 21st. As GMT is 0 we should use it rather then another time zone to stop confusion with people from other areas of the world Deepcell88 (talk) 09:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

D Deepcell88 (talk) 09:39, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

The police were called at 2pm local time, so as London (Greenwich is so near London as makes no difference) is seven hours ahead of Albaquerque it must be close. Britmax (talk) 10:51, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I just checked. As the site is 6 hours behind GMT no, it happened on the 21st in both places.. Britmax (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:28, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

11 year old girls on Soviet military bases in the Arctic?

Miss Hutchins was 12 years old when the Soviet Union fell apart. If she grew up on a Soviet military bases in the Arctic she could have lived there from the age of 1 to 11 (unless her parents served in the Russian Army after 1991). Where children from 1 to 11 allowed on Soviet military bases in the Arctic? It could be that she tried to "spice up" her CV by putting not accurate information in it (I am sure her father served on such a military base). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 10:31, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

This information is sourced, and family accommodation on military bases is quite common. You will need sources that specifically say she grew up somewhere else, or substantial doubts regarding the suitability of existing sources, to have this changed. Britmax (talk) 10:49, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I was not questioning the sources; I just wondered if family accommodation on Soviet artic military bases was common. So thanks for the information Britmax. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 12:30, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Not a prop gun

The gun used in her death does not meet the criteria in the prop gun section linked to, as statements indicate she was killed by something projected by the weapon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.9.39.250 (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

We'd need a reliable source to say this. Solipsism 101 (talk) 20:35, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

@Solipsism 101: I think we have a dilemma as to what kind of gun it was. Some sources use the term "prop gun". This source describes a "prop gun" as a fake gun that simply looks like a gun (like a realistic toy). A prop gun expert makes a distinction between that kind of gun and the "prop gun" that is frequently used in films. "He pointed out that there’s a false misconception that prop guns aren’t real firearms.'I would say prop guns are fake guns intended to look like a real gun,' he said. 'That’s quite a distinction. So, I wouldn’t describe it as a prop gun—it’s a real gun. Blank firing guns can’t be modified to shoot cartridges and those would be seldom used in a big budget picture." This AP article and this article describe it similarly. This article in the New York Times doesn't use the phrase "prop gun", but instead says "a gun that was being used as a prop". I've seen sources that simply use the word "gun". I think the term "prop gun" used without any context is too vague to be very meaningful, and it could be misleading by suggesting that it is not an actual weapon. Wikipedia isn't a newspaper; we don't have to report the specifics until the authorities make a final determination. I think we need to rewrite to explain that the gun has been variously described as a "prop gun" and a "real gun", and that law enforcement has not yet made a determination about the weapon. Sundayclose (talk) 23:27, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

That sounds like a reasonable addition/refinement. Solipsism 101 (talk) 12:38, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Have seen some other published pictures (at least 1) of the actual gun ("residing" in evidence locker of law enforcement unity) that was employed (besides the one depicted by Daily Mail here^{Beware of some 117 ads on site there}). ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 12:47, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
Haven't heard of any actors beheaded by prop swords...13:12, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

• Jessica Murphy, Sam Cabral and Kelly-Leigh Cooper. Rust shooting: Investigators announce initial findings - BBC News, LIVE (16:22, 27 October 2021 (UTC))☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 16:22, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

was a "Ukrainian-American"?

The source in the lead clearly states she was Ukrainian (i.e. had Ukrainian citizenship), not "Ukrainian-American" -- someone just added "American" to that sentence recently. Can we have a reliable source that confirms she was also an American citizen? - Garik 11 (talk) 10:12, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Agree, I have moved the source so it clearly shows it only supports Ukranian, and added a cn tag for American. Just because she was in America, that doesn't make her an American citizen, we would need this confirmed by reliable sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I have removed 'American' from the lead. Without attribution, it's pure speculation at this point. --Kbabej (talk) 21:38, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Is Wikipedia a newspaper or an obituary website?

I've noticed that this article was only created after Halyna Hutchins was shot dead. Is this is the necessary notoriety to get an article in Wikipedia? What about other people shot in the workplace? If Halyna merited to have an article dedicated to her in Wikipedia because her life and work achievements, why there wasn't one before she died? Are the facts about her childhood, education and work activities significant enough to get a WP article? I suppose calling now to delete the article would not be welcomed among Wikipedia creators but, I am proposing to delete this article as sign of vanity, anyway. I propose to move parts of it regarding her shooting by Alec Baldwin to the WP article created for him. 24.225.161.193 (talk) 22:35, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

There are many people who ought to have Wikipedia articles but don't for one reason or another (you can find many at Wikipedia:Requested articles/Biography/By profession, for example). Not having an article until now doesn't necessarily mean anything except that no one had thought to write one yet. Also, this article was previously brought up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Halyna Hutchins and the consensus was that, while her shooting may have been the catalyst for an article being written, she's notable for more than just that event. I don't think another nomination so soon would be appropriate. clpo13_(talk) 22:47, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Agree with Clpo13. Many cinematographers who have worked on major films have articles, some less notable than Hutchins. See Category:Cinematographers by nationality and its subcategories. Sundayclose (talk) 00:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Her past works are barely notable. The article should be about the event per policy, but the people have spoken and there is no real harm in having this article. It is well-sourced and based on reliable sources, and will be tinkered with and maintained over the years by interested editors. It's is not the case of a minor person having a defective article that we don't have the bandwidth to maintain, which seems to be a key reason we omit minor figures. Solipsism 101 (talk) 20:22, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

It should be noted that a biographical entry for Halyna Hutchins appears in 20 other Wikipedias, none of which titles it as an event ("Death of..." / "Shooting of..." / "Killing of..."), but as a bio, with only the name depicted in the main title header of each respective entry. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:45, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

It should also bear mentioning that, days before this thread was started, this article was "speedily kept", as noted at the top of the talkpage. Wyliepedia @ 09:26, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

How the gun fired

This article says "Alec Baldwin discharged a gun", but the linked main article Rust shooting incident says "a revolver... discharged a live round while being used by ... Baldwin" and later "When he removed it from the holster, the gun fired a single time. Baldwin and Halls have said that Baldwin did not pull the trigger."

This article cites a BBC report which in turn cites the police. The main article cites an ABC News interview with Baldwin.

I believe the existing wording in this article goes against WP:BLP policy, but I won't make a suggestion for how to fix it. --184.144.97.125 (talk) 05:51, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

In that first interview, Baldwin said he pulled the hammer back, but not far enough to cock it, then he said he let it go, to me thats would pretty much have the same inpact on the firing pin as a full cock and triggeer pull. Just my opinion. - FlightTime (open channel) 06:04, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Date of birth

A friend of the subject is stating the DOB is incorrect (April 9th, not 10th). Upon checking the 3 citations for DOB in the 'Early Life' section, none mentioned a date, nor did the top 10 or so other refs I looked over; or I am just missing it? Is anyone sure which source is in fact saying April 10th as DOB? Strangerpete (talk) 17:06, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Discussion about birthdate by friend of subject here. Not sure where the April 10th date came from, though an internet search for 'Halyna Hutchins birth date' turns up several sites for me (rather unsure about their reliability) that claim April 10th as the birthdate. I wasn't sure how the sources the friend mentioned could be utilized and directed the editor here. Perfect4th (talk) 05:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Made 10th "deprecated" in Wikidata item. When I was looking for the date, I assumed from Halyna's facebook posts that it could be on 10th or the/some day before (so didn't add anything at that point). Then some sources, AlloCiné specifically, went with 10th. My guess now is they just made an assumption based on the same source and/or repeated each other. Flipping Switches (talk) 12:39, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I am that Halyna's close friend who knows for the fact that her birthdate was April 9th and not 10th. I was trying to find her passport to send the screenshot but her Mom doesn't have it, I only have Halyna's birth certificate, but it's in Ukrainian. On her Facebook page you can see it's April 9th. Please help! Anya Bay (talk) 01:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

@Anya Bay: Being logged-in on Facebook, I can't see Halyna's DOB so it is probably a non-public information, set in her account as "for friends only". Uknainian birth certificate might be logical to make the source for Ukrainian Wikipedia page (and then expand it to other pages). But I am no expert on the procedure. I'll write here later if will figure out the if-and-how-s but I hope someone will come up with this before that. Flipping Switches (talk) 19:58, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

After some reading, it seems that Birth Certificate is not an easy, if even an option. Maybe an article about Halyna with the mention the date in not Dayli Mail but LA Times way? Flipping Switches (talk) 20:54, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

I think you're right and you can't see her DOB on FB because she kept it private. I can take a screenshot though with DOB, can I submit it / email it somehow? Anya Bay (talk) 21:30, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

This sounds like a less reliable kind of source than doing the same with the certificate. If her husband would make the DOB info public in her Facebook profile? - that could be something to start with, I guess. I hope someone more knowledgeable in the subject of Reliable sources for Wikipedia will come by this discussion. Flipping Switches (talk) 22:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

The talk page information indicates there aren't too many editors watching this page – a question about reliable sources might get more input at the reliable sources noticeboard. Perfect4th (talk) 22:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Radio Svoboda made a video report from Kyiv Shevchenko University, including its archive, where they showed Halyna's full name written in the list. Might a request for the DOB to this or other university archive work? You can join the discussion on the Ukrainian Talk page. Flipping Switches (talk) 17:36, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Just to note, Flipping Switches has found a credible DOB in a tribute published by her Union, International Cinematographers Guild's magazine, November 2021 page 92 of it being April 9th. Personally, I consider this source sufficiently reliable Strangerpete (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, her birthday was April 9th DEFINITELY, we celebrated it together many times. How do we get to change it in her main Wiki page? Thanks!! 2603:8000:7F01:B157:0:0:0:25 (talk) 01:25, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

You'll be happy to know it is published as the 9th currently; I was leaving a comment to update the discussion, and as a reference since someone had just tried to revert to the 10th. Strangerpete (talk) 01:38, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you)) 2603:8000:7F01:B157:0:0:0:25 (talk) 01:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)