Talk:Grigori Rasputin/Archive 7

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Nickname of Grigori Rasputin

Rasputin was not known as the Mad Monk as cited. Rather an associate of his Hierarch Monk Iliador was known and self proclaimed as such. His aspirations frustrated as leader of the Black Hundreds, Iliador eventually denounced the faith and denied association with RASPUTIN and became a family man name of Sergei Trufanov - Wikipedia He went on to write a book entitled the Mad Monk of Russia, referring to himself as such, not Grigori Rasputin MatthewGCooley (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

I guess you are referring to Sergei Trufanov who wrote this book in 1918? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Yup, same person (ie, Trufanov = Iliodor). I seem to recall finding a lot of sources suggesting that Rasputin has also been referred to as the "mad monk," though, and a quick google suggests that he's sometimes called that [1]. In general, though, I'm not opposed to removing the nickname since it seems kind of trivial for the infobox, and Rasputin has been called a lot of different things by a lot of different people. Was planning a re-boot of the infobox eventually and I probably would have removed this from the "other names" section at that point anyway. Fyddlestix (talk) 04:25, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2018

Change the Cyrillic writing of Rasputin's name from Григорий Ефимович Распутин to Григо́рий Ефи́мович Распу́тин, as the diacritic marks are used in other articles about other Russian people. Sasha Red (talk) 17:36, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Specifically, none of the references currently in the article confirm the diacritical marks suggested for the Cyrillic name. There would need to be confirmation that this would be how Rasputin's name would have been spelled in that way during his life. These are generally considered optional today. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:24, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2018

Add the word "that" so that the sentence below has proper grammar:

Original: One theory about his apparent immunity to cyanide is the cyanide was administered as solid

Modified: One theory about his apparent immunity to cyanide is that the cyanide was administered as solid 2001:4898:80E8:2:9AF1:C446:AD41:AB2 (talk) 20:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done Have also changed the repeated cyanide. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk)

There was no cyanide found in his body according to Kosorotov; it is clear you have other goals. Taksen (talk) 15:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

To which of us was your comment addressed? I corrected the grammar in a single sentence that describes a theory. Please enlighten us as to my other goals? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:51, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

The article actually already states that Kosorotov ... found no evidence that Rasputin had been poisoned. FWIW I kind of agree with you here though, the content you're referring to was quite recently added, is unsourced, and is kind of out of place sandwiched between a summary of Yusupov's narrative of the assassination and a discussion of how news of it spread. Should probably be moved elsewhere & better sourced or removed altogether. Fyddlestix (talk) 04:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Possible typo for his sibling?

The text reads: " Feodosiya. According to historian Joseph T. Fuhrmann, Rasputin was certainly close to Fyeodosiya" Are those two different people (Feodosiya and Fyeodosiya) or is one a misspelling of the other?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.189.185 (talk • contribs)

Same person. Not sure if that's just a typo or the result of it being spelled differently in 2 different sources (happens a lot with Russian translations, eg "Efim" and "Yefim" are both common spellings of his father's name) but both Smith and Fuhrmann used "Feodosiya," so I've changed both instances to that spelling. Thanks for catching the inconsistency! Fyddlestix (talk) 20:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Edit request: reword ambiguous sentence in introduction

"In late 1906, Rasputin began acting as a healer for the Tsar and his wife Alexandra's only son Alexei, who suffered from hemophilia." This sentence is unclear. Please change it to "In late 1906, Rasputin began acting as a healer for Alexei, the Tsar and his wife Alexandra's only son, who suffered from hemophilia." (moving Alexei into the main clause and "the Tsar and his wife Alexandra's only son" to the relative clause). wizzwizz4 (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Yup. EEng 13:47, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Death accounts

Are there any contemporary accounts of his death from sources other than Yusupov e.g. police interrogation of co-conspirators? From what I understand most - if not all - details come from Yusupov himself, years after the event took place. It would be interesting to determine by cross referencing if the whole story or only parts of it was/were fabricated. 213.233.149.25 (talk) 00:56, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2018

was aged 48 at death

51.6.62.190 (talk) 21:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done Shellwood (talk) 21:39, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, January usually comes before December? Even in the Old Style calendar? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

FTR, for a long time January came after December -- see Lady_Day#Non-religious_significance -- though I don't think this comes into play here. EEng 01:13, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Bad behavior

Do you think we need lf's to newsletter, and Germany, and many ? It is fake news what you produced, sex and scandals. Not very informative. My version is a lot better than yours, even if you are a doctor in philosophy. It is a crime to delete 80 references.Taksen (talk) 18:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. I think the version you favour is bloated. But you seem to be adopting a rather hardline position. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2018 (UTC):

We know you Martin, you haven't added much here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taksen (talk • contribs) 19:00, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Rasputin is a difficult subject. It needs more refs than produced up til now. Wikipedia seems not to be about truth, more about what is believed. I am against belief. Also Rasputin is supposed to have political power, but this article has no information at all on that topic. He (fiddlestix) could not produce a single reference that explains anything in that direction.Taksen (talk) 19:00, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

So what exactly do you mean by "We know you Martin, you haven't added much here"? And could you please sign your post? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:18, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

You can do me a favour Martin, and get some Wikipedia experts involved. A doctor in philosophy, and a professor in computer science, who agree between each other that 80 references are deleted, is a serious problem.Taksen (talk) 19:40, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

We already had this exact discussion a year ago: the number of sources is not a good metric for article quality. Like I said above, the article is not perfect and still needs work/expansion, but restoring material that had major problems and has been removed 3-4 times already is not the way forward. Fyddlestix (talk) 23:19, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I've done you a favour by signing your post. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:59, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

• I see Taksen is up to his old nonsense. I've returned this article to my watchlist but please ping me if anything new comes up and I don't seem to be responding. Taksen, if you pull this shit again I'll move to have you topic-banned. You waste far too much community time with your malapropistic nonsense. EEng 13:36, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

  I wish you did. Your view is exaggerated, also bad and limited, resembling Stalin. Taksen (talk) 00:54, 26 August 2018 (UTC) The article became worthless, and is labelled just like thousands of other articles on the English Wikipedia. Try harder, Rasputin is a difficult topic.Taksen (talk) 01:19, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

  You have been warned. Attempt to reinsert this material again and it may be the last thing you do on the English Wikipedia. Your inability to write coherent English alone gets you 2/3 of the way to an indefinite block. EEng 01:26, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

  You are a destructive person and overestimating yourself. Your behavior, user- and talk page are clear about that. Also the doctor and the professor did not succeed to improve the article. In my point of view you all think that Russian people are unreliable and the article should show that. Since a year it is full with non-sourced material, myths, legends, not Wikipediaen at all. It is a shame nobody of the board bothers here. Perhaps they don't like to burn their fingers on a topic they have no knowledge off? Taksen (talk) 07:37, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

You appear to be delusional, dear sir. I say this from the kindness of my heart. I cannot take your arguments seriously at all, since it seems you rely solely on ad hominems or some type of convoluted strawmanning. My honest advice would be to consider taking up a different hobby. Jay D'Easy (talk) 15:45, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

And that's the kind evaluation. Someday you can tell us what you really think. EEng 16:21, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

"It is a shame nobody of the board bothers here." Which board did you have in mind? Perhaps they've already burned their fingers? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Oiuja board?--Jack Upland (talk) 19:06, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Waterboard? EEng 21:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Political influence

The article on the Russian Revolution says that Rasputin had a negative influence on the government, in particular, that his influence brought about disastrous ministerial appointments. This article says nothing about this. Perhaps it should?Bill (talk) 05:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits

Why has all the hidden text been removed? Also, the latest image has a caption that is far too long. I think that image (if it is relevant) should be supported (with those sources) in the article text. These deserve some discussion at least. Perhaps EEng would like to comment? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

It looks pretty clear to me that this string of edits made today is an attempt to restore material that was removed per the consensus here. This stuff has been removed multiple times, and should be removed again promptly if we want to avoid a return to this this bloated mess. Since the discussion I just linked I'd put a lot of work into making the article more coherent & concise - it's far from perfect but the last thing it needs is more bloat (eg, that section on the "Yar restaurant incident" and paragraph-long photo captions). Fyddlestix (talk) 01:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and reverted the BOLD changes while we discuss it. It's a ways back in the edit & discussion history but if you look you'll find that a lot of the material these edits added had previously been tagged (for bad sources, for example: no one should be restoring stuff cited to a dead-link angelfire blog or to the Russia Today "russapedia") and that multiple editors had put quite a lot of work into cleaning it up. Fyddlestix (talk) 11:59, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Fyddlestix. I agree with you. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

The inclusion of material even including its old cleanup tags makes clear that this is an attempt to return to the old pre-cleanup version of the article. I agree with reverting these edits. —David Eppstein (talk) 15:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

• Sorry I missed Martin's ping. I was traveling. Obviously I support the majority view here. EEng 14:07, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
• Corrected error in Grammar. Located Abalak. *Moitranaak (talk) 12:49, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Use of American English

Type of English Used

This article is in US English. Such usage is limited to the USA only, and the globally accepted format is UK English(aka Asian English, Australian English, and other areas).
I intend changing the format to Standard English (UK English). Those who wish to oppose my opinion may kindly say so and why. Moitranaak (talk) 14:03, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

• Do not do this. You're relatively new, so it's not surprising you haven't run into this, but you need to carefully read MOS:ENGVAR, and particularly its last section on retaining the existing variety.

In addition, please read WP:SIG#CustomSig. Basically, your signature must contain a link to either your user page or your talk page, for everyone's convenience. EEng 23:51, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2020

The song Rasputin is written about Grigori Rasputin. Owen Lauzon (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Since it would be too much to mention all notable works about him, there is a link to Grigori Rasputin in popular culture under the Popular Culture section. – Thjarkur (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

new = noviy (not novyi)

please correct it accordingly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.249.144.196 (talk) 16:03, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Fixed.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:57, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

'Self-proclaimed holy man'

I have Rasputin's memoir as well as other memoirs and sources. I have never seen him anywhere proclaiming himself as 'holy man'. This phrase in Wikipedia does not have a link; it is an unproven statement. I request to edit it out. Surely Rasputin was known as a 'mystic' and he was and even still is considered to be 'holy' by several people but it is undocumented that he proclaimed himself 'holy'. Please, correct. Xannita (talk) 23:49, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

The phrases "holy man" and "other self-described 'holy men'" are used under "Rise to prominence" with citations, but I agree this is probably not the most accurate kind of language to use.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2020

change “has calls” in the first line to “has called” in third paragraph of section HEALER TO ALEXEI. Jagrholl (talk) 07:46, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:57, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2021

Change " Nicholas granted the request and the name change was speedily processed, suggesting that the tsar's favor at that early date." to " Nicholas granted the request and the name change was speedily processed, suggesting that he held the tsar's favor at that early date.

"..., suggesting that the tsar's favor at that early date" is grammatically incomplete. There are several ways to make this sentence grammatically correct in English; as currently written the sentence is incorrect but understandable. 98.110.59.27 (talk) 02:24, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Volteer1 (talk) 02:32, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Grigori Rasputin

Is grigori rasputin official birth date given on google' knowledge panel Vedant04072005 (talk) 04:54, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Deathplace

Shouldn't Rasputin's deathplace be listed as Petrograd, and then parenthetically its current name of Saint Petersburg, given that that was its name at that time. Champ68 (talk) 06:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2021

Please change the following photo caption:

"Rasputin with his wife and daughter Matryona (Maria) in his St. Petersburg apartment, 1911"

to

"Rasputin with his daughter Matryona (Maria, rightmost) in his St. Petersburg apartment, 1911"

The third person in the picture is not Rasputin's wife, but rather one of his regular followers. (source: Edvard Radzinsky's book on Rasputin). SirWoland (talk) 16:22, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2022

He was born Grigori Yefimovich Novykh 107.15.210.181 (talk) 22:56, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done No, he wasn't. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:58, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Additional Movie to add to Movies section

The King's Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_Man) (2021): a spy action film directed by Matthew Vaughn starring Ralph Fiennes, Gemma Arterton, Djimon Hounsou and Rhys Ifans as Grigori Rasputin, which includes fictionalized portrayals of the role of Rasputin in World War I and of the assassination of Rasputin. [email protected] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin>  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6000:D402:1771:95AA:667:D9EA:4E64 (talk) 07:18, 8 April 2022 (UTC) 

Additional Movie to add to Movies section

The King's Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King%27s_Man) (2021): a spy action film directed by Matthew Vaughn starring Ralph Fiennes, Gemma Arterton, Djimon Hounsou and Rhys Ifans as Grigori Rasputin, which includes fictionalized portrayals of the role of Rasputin in World War I and of the assassination of Rasputin. [email protected] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin>  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6000:D402:1771:95AA:667:D9EA:4E64 (talk) 07:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC) 

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2022

In "Media Depictions" entry for "Rasputin and the Empress," the last reference to Lionel should be to John.

"Rasputin and the Empress (1932), a film directed by Richard Boleslavsky and Charles Brabin starring Lionel Barrymore as Grigori Rasputin, Ralph Morgan as the Czar,Ethel Barrymoreas the Czarina and Lionel Barrymore as Prince Paul Chegodireff." John Barrymore played Prince Paul Chegodireff. Ronald Christensen (talk) 23:49, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done RudolfRed (talk) 01:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Original name, etymology of "Rasputin"?

There is no mention of Rasputin's birth name, Grigory Yefimovich Novykh. The surname "Rasputin" was given to him later. Whether it means "debauched one" in Russian or "crossroads," I can't be sure without some more research, but shouldn't there be some mention of this? Abelhawk (talk) 14:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

@Abelhawk: The Russian Wikipedia says they were Rasputin from the 17th century.