Talk:Extraordinary rendition

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Extraordinary rendition article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6: 270 days

Correction and Detention Facilities (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Correction and Detention Facilities, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Correction and Detention FacilitiesWikipedia:WikiProject Correction and Detention FacilitiesTemplate:WikiProject Correction and Detention FacilitiesCorrection and Detention Facilities articles

Human rights High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

International relations: Law High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject International law (assessed as Mid-importance).

United States: Government Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. Government (assessed as Low-importance).

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Extraordinary renditions#The European Parliament's 14 February 2007 report|See below:The European Parliament's 14 February 2007 report]]
[[Extraordinary renditions#The European Parliament's 14 February 2007 report|see below]]

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Article size[edit]

See previous discussion Talk:Extraordinary rendition/Archive 3#Article size

Split?[edit]

I think it may be time to split this article because of confusion between extraordinary rendition and other cases of international state-sponsored abductions. Oxford Bibliographies defines extraordinary rendition as "forcible abduction in another jurisdiction and transfer to a third state". (This does not apply to any of the non-US cases as far as I can tell.) It also says that "extraordinary rendition refers mainly to the secret US program that was established after 9/11"[1]. Other cases of state-sponsored abduction involve bringing the victim to the country carrying out the abduction, and this is not called "extraordinary rendition" in reliable sources. Examples:

"The Disappeared: China's global kidnapping campaign has gone on for years. It may now be reaching inside U.S. borders." Foreign Policy, 2018
"Turkish spies are abducting Erdogan’s political opponents abroad", Open Democracy, 2021
"Why the West should take Turkey’s international abductions more seriously", Ahval, 2021
"Iranian kidnapping plot shows that transnational abductions are becoming 'mainstream,' human rights activists say", Yahoo News, 2021

There doesn't seem to be an established name for the more general practice so I think splitting off content that's not related to the US program into a separate article with a descriptive title, such as international state-sponsored abduction, transnational abduction, or extraterritorial abduction would be best. If no one objects I will carry out the split. (t · c) buidhe 03:09, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Travis Walton?[edit]

Makes alot of sense to me 2600:100F:B04A:967C:1D4:231D:6734:661D (talk) 00:17, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Re: WikiProject Countering systemic bias / Consolidation of propaganda terms?[edit]

In reply to the “Globalize”-template (“WikiProject Countering systemic bias”) in this article and prevent an edit-war:

From a sane view, the intro to this article reads like Wikipedia is now an organ to consolidate US propaganda terms, which seem to be merely used to hide the fact that what really is meant is abduction/kidnapping. I suggest to make it clear at the very beginning of the article that “Extraordinary rendition” is merely an euphemism as used in the USA for means of their propaganda. The usage of the term “rendition” for “abduction” in this article can only be explained with US-propaganda. Therefore the intro should read something like:

»Extraordinary rendition is an US propaganda euphemism that refers to the state-sponsored "forcible abduction in another jurisdiction and transfer to a third state". […] The administration of President George W. Bush ~~rendered~~abducted hundreds of presumed "illegal combatants" for U.S. detention, and transported detainees to U.S.-controlled sites as part of an extensive interrogation program that included torture.« --Feeela (talk) 13:17, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Condoleezza Rice quote should also be shown to be a lie[edit]

"The United States has not transported anyone, and will not transport anyone, to a country when we believe he will be tortured. Where appropriate, the United States seeks assurances that transferred persons will not be tortured."

Lolwat?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos 115.70.240.161 (talk) 12:34, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reads like propaganda[edit]

Kidnapping is unlawful seizure (or "capturing and carrying away") of a person, especially for the purpose of extracting ransom. Rendition is the involuntary transfer of a person from one jurisdiction to another, under color of law. Extraordinary rendition is the transfer of a person under of color of law, not the seizure, to a jurisdiction where the transferor knows or should know that the victim will be subject to torture or other unlawful treatment. Conflating transfer with seizure, simply to be able to apply a more familiar term with greater emotional impact, undermines the credibility of Wikipedia. It also undermines the credibility of condemnation of extraordinary rendition, thereby giving aid and comfort to the perpetrators of this heinous practice. Even if a person is detained lawfully, they can still be subject to unlawful transfer afterward. We must not condone unlawful transfer in such cases by describing the phrase "extraordinary rendition" as being applicable only in cases of kidnapping. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 03:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia neither condones nor does not condone the subjects of its articles; that is not the purpose of what we do here, nor is this a place to fight battles against the practice. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 04:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]