Talk:Erich Wolfgang Korngold

Critical attention

I'm not sure what this is trying to say:

• Korngold for years attracted almost no critical attention, and considerable critical disdain.

It seems to me that "considerable critical disdain" means that the attention he got was far from "almost none". It might have been negative attention, but it was attention nevertheless. JackofOz 11:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it should be something like "For many years Korngold attracted little positive critical attention." I know that for a long time he was derided as a "movie-music" composer and it is only in the last couple decades that people have begun to discover the astonishing music he wrote in his youngest years (I'll never forget my own initial encounter with Die tote Stadt -- when previously I mainly knew him as the composer of the music that accompanied Errol Flynn dancing around a sound-stage). Antandrus (talk) 15:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I like that suggestion. I only know the couple of well-known arias from Die tote Stadt, but my favourite of his lesser-known works is the Sinfonietta, Op.5. Astoundingly assured writing for any age, let alone a teenager. But I still admire his stirring film music as well. Film music in general really has been given an undeservedly bad rap. JackofOz 04:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess this is just commenting on the conversation here and not the article, but have you (by "you," I mean Antandrus) ever listened to Korngold's film music a little more closely than by just cursorily analyzing it as it passed between your ears as you watched those old Errol Flynn swashbucklers? Have you ever noticed that when you listen to a cue of his divorced from the screen, its form and melodic continuity sound as if they were conceived of for there own sake, but when you listen to that same cue with the scene for which it was written, you suddenly realize that every single point of even the most minor significance in the cue precisely matches up with something of equal significance on the screen? I don't know about you, but I don't know of any other composer who has written for film that could write mickey-mousing music like that that could, at the same time, have such firm integrity on its own. In fact, there is such a dearth of composers who can write convincing mickey-mousing music that the notion of "mickey mousing" has come to be known as something almost inherently derisive to anyone who employs the technique. Batman Jr. 06:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Could something more specific about the recognition he received be said in this section (Legacy) than just that various compositions of his were released? Did anyone buy them, listen to them, appreciate them, review them, etc? After three paragraphs when one arrives at "Further recognition" it is natural to wonder what recognition the "further" is presupposing. Releasing yet more recordings doesn't seem like a terribly high bar to meet when the world's supply of recorded music is limited more by availability of content than production costs, and nothing is said about the autobiographies' judgments of him. Instead one then jumps to an item about his falling out of a chair, creating an impression that perhaps nothing in the preceding section was of any greater importance than this bit of trivia. --Vaughan Pratt (talk) 02:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Might I suggest Korngold for years after his death attracted almost no critical praise, but considerable critical disdain. This would accord with the postmodern trend to re-evaluate the work of long-deprecated creative artists. Consider the art of Norman Rockwell, pictorial works once thought sentimental bordering on schlock, now celebrated. And we might add a whole raft of women composers whose music was of its time but fell out of fashion, now championed as 'suppressed'.60.241.173.20 (talk) 20:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

Comment made to person removing the box:

I am aware of the heated discussion about inforboxes for composers and that many have voiced against, not sure that being a concensus though. Personally I believe that they are very helpful in particular for less known composers as the box may contain all that people may wish to know.

I am not sure whether it is all right to go and remove a box from an article which you have not otherwise contributed to - perhaps you should have raised the question on that article's discussion page.

In any event, as the box contained information not available in the tag line I suggest, politely, at least you go back and ensure that the deleted information be added to the tag line.Classickol 16:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

You mean the information surrounding his death? I'm sorry I missed that in the first place. Thanks for pointing this out to me. I've added it back in. By the way, perhaps the article should say where, exactly, he died in the USA? Cheers, Moreschi ^Talk 17:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Korngold is a significant composer and it would be disappointing if people just read the box instead of the article. "Genre: Classical (romantic style)" hardly explains what Korngold was about. It's good that the box has gone. -Kleinzach 17:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Left the field for "needs infobox" for the overall Biography project blank. Not my fight. :) - Yamara 23:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 23:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Korngold.jpg

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(Karpaten1 (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)) Since the author of this page claims Korngold as a "Czech", could the "assimilated family" be extended by noting "assimilated German family" because before the Nazis, that was his Umfeld, not some kinds of Czechs. BetacommandBot (talk) 22:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

assimilated Jewish home

i have no idea what that means —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.5.131 (talk) 08:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Seems to have been amended to 'confiscated'.

60.241.173.20 (talk) 20:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

'Robin Hood' and *Beethoven 5*...??

I read here that 'Among other things, [the 'Robin Hood' score] features some quotation of the third movement theme in Beethoven's Fifth Symphony'. I believe this claim to be completely false; however, can anyone point out to me what the original writer was referring to...? Pfistermeister (talk) 21:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

No footnotes template

I think this template should be removed. Anyone agree? Francesco Malipiero (talk) 19:11, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Korngold recordings

Like many people of the Baby Boom generation, I was only vaguely aware of Korngold, although I had certainly heard his musical scores, until RCA Victor released "The Sea Hawk" in 1973, featuring selections from his scores with Charles Gerhardt and the National Philharmonic Orchestra. Soon after that, Warner Brothers released its own archive recordings, including a piano solo by the composer (from a party at Jack Warner's home). Then came the release of a KFWB 1938 broadcast, in which Korngold conducted the studio orchestra in excerpts from "The Adventures of Robin Hood." In recent years, extended recordings from the Warners soundtracks have been released, but they have generally had only limited release. Youtube has a number of recordings of Korngold conducting his film scores and it's wonderful to hear that he was such a fine conductor. Of course, the Warner Brothers orchestra was among the best in Hollywood and benefited from the latest advances in recording technology. By 1938, they were making full range recordings, so the soundtrack of "The Adventures of Robin Hood" has excellent sound. I just wish that someone would do a more widespread release of Korngold's performances of his music.

Reinhardt Picture

I believe the picture is unnecessary and confusing. It can be reached with a click of the hyperlink, and bares no direct relation to Korngold. --86.183.225.202 (talk) 11:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I would agree that the picture is both unnecessary and confusing. The focus of the article is on Korngold, not Reinhert. Since there has been no discussion to the contrary, I will go ahead and delete the picture. Cygnature (talk) 22:29, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

"American composer"?

American, Czech, or Austro-Hungarian?

The text classifies Korngold as an American composer "of Austro-Hungarian birth", but is this really correct? Korngold only moved permanently to the United States at over 40 years of age and was a naturalized citizen for just the last quarter (14 years) of his life; similarly only the last quarter of his oeuvre was composed while he was a US citizen. That he died a naturalized citizen isn't an argument; the same would apply to Béla Bartók and Sergei Rachmaninoff, who nevertheless are classified even in Wikipedia as Hungarian and Russian composers, respectively. That he was born in Brno doesn't make him a Czech, either, since the Czech Republic (or it's predecessor Czechoslovakia) didn't yet exist; at the time of Korngold's birth, Brno (or Brünn) was capitol of the Margraviate of Moravia, one of the lands constituting the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and it's populace (Jews included) were largely German-speakers. Korngold characterized himself as Viennese, having moved to that city at the age of four and having lived there for most (37 years) of his life. Considering that Korngold was already an eminent composer when he left Europe for good, it might be better to call him an Austro-Hungarian-American, Austrian-American, or (if you must) Moravian-American. "American composer of Austro-Hungarian birth" suggests that he was only born in Austria-Hungary but did all of his composing in America, while he actually composed most of his oeuvre in Austria-Hungary and post-WW1 Austria.--Death Bredon (talk) 15:05, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

The New Grove has "Austrian composer." I wouldn't mind doing it that way, and citing them. (He's no more "American" than Stravinsky or Schoenberg, for that matter.) Antandrus (talk) 15:17, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I would suggest that Erich Korngold clearly chose to become an American citizen and was naturalized. He was an American when he died and is interred in America. Clearly, it is an insult to the great composer and his descendants to suggest that he is not an American! The Wikipedia article is correct as written "an American composer of Austro-Hungarian birth". The same is true of Rachmaninoff, who became an American Citizen the year before Korngold. Jay Gregg (talk) 19:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Page tag

About the sourcing so far, RMS, the refimprove tag at the top of the page isn't too useful. The article is fairly brief for a biography, yet includes 28 good sources evenly added throughout. It should first have some inline cn tags where necessary so someone can fix whatever details need sourcing. --Light show (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

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What Style? What School? "Composing Techniques & Style" Section

The article would be improved by classifying Korngold's style, stating it up front, and expanding on it in the section on Composing Techniques & Style. For example, if he were Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff, he would be classified as classical romantic school. If he were Mozart, he would be classified as strict classical. Debussy or Ravel would be impressionist. Michael Nyman and John Adams would be minimalist. So how do you classify Korngold? Is there any better or more thorough classification than "late romantic"? From what little I have heard of Korngold he has a disoriented modernistic sound to which IMHO "romantic" should not be used since it is too far removed from Tchaikovsky and company. Also, whatever other composers belong to his school should be mentioned as such, like Mozart and Haydn go together. I think he might be (also) classified as a composer of background music; music by the vast majority of people, not enjoyed as orchestral performance, though unconsciously enjoyed as background to a movie. (PeacePeace (talk) 17:18, 9 February 2018 (UTC))

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Erich Wolfgang Korngold (1897–1957) 1910 © Madame d'Ora (1881–1963) OeNB 307685.jpg
• Erich Wolfgang Korngold (1897–1957) 1916 © Madame d'Ora (1881–1963) OeNB 9801962.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Clear up Korngold's strength or deficiency of counterpoint in his music?

In this article, there are two viewpoints from critical sources about Korngold's proficiency in incorporating counterpoint into his music, and they generally conflict, right in the same section (in Composing techniques and style). The first mention is in the yellow floating box quote from The New Grove Dictionary of Opera: "..., but is deficient in contrapuntal vitality.". The second mention is in the last paragraph: "...[Korngold] created intensely romantic, richly melodic and contrapuntally intricate scores,..."

Do we think it is worth resolving, or at least "pointing" out (see what I did there), that it's a matter of debate? When I first read this whole article, I was rubbing my eyes wondering if I just read one of these wrong. Both sources seem to have generalized about all of Korngold's output, not just film scores vs. operas/classical works. Culveyhouse (talk) 08:46, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

The Prince and the Pauper should be added in the significant film list

it's yet another Errol Flynn movie, and is one of the scores he repurposes in his Violin Concerto. Deliusfan (talk) 02:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)