Talk:Edi Birsan

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 January 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Discovery/Seeno Companies[edit]

I was reverted for adding what was perceived as a "political hit piece". Here is what I put in the article: "In 2021, councilmember Birsan voted in favor of Discovery Homes/Seeno Companies leading the Concord Naval Weapons Project. There was strong opposition from the public towards the company, due to their poor record on the environment, with extensive environmental violations and litigation.^[1]". Given this article is a stub, I feel like we should be striving to have more information about Edi Birsan in the article, not less. I'm open to suggestions on how we could make the wording more neutral though. Prcc27 (talk) 05:13, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://pioneerpublishers.com/saturday-surprise-with-city-council-tabbing-discovery-seeno-team-for-naval-weapons-project/

Request edit: Politial career[edit]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Please restore most/all of the content regarding Mr. Birsan’s political career. He is most well known for being a city councilmember, so having significantly more information about his gaming career would clearly be WP:UNDUE. Here is what the article should be restored to: [1]. An alternative option would be to trim the gaming section (some of which is unsourced), or find another way to add more content about his political career. Prcc27 (talk) 00:05, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done Re-added information about the Concord project. The gaming information seems entirely unsupported by reliable sources, so I eventually decided to remove it after research turned up nothing else usable. WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 00:56, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

UTC)

Request Edit[edit]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

I find the editing of the Wikipedia page to be in direct conflict with what is intended for Wikipedia and in reflects poorly on the organization.

First: for over 13 years the page was about my role in the Diplomacy Hobby and the impact World wide on that game system and records held around the world. It also referenced many articles that I had written in regard to that. This is a history of over 50 years of involvement from 1965. If you want to find out more about this then simply Google Edi Birsan Diplomacy, want tournament history go to http://world-diplomacy-database.com/php/commun/index.php

Second, there was only a mild reference to my being in the City Council in Concord. This remained the same even after I was elected to the Concil in 2012. For 9 years of activity on the Concord Council as well the page was about my Diplomacy hobby. There was no discussion on any of the votes or topics I covered. Then I took a position in 2021 which one of your writers disagreed with and they decided to redo the page with an emphasis on politics and that one vote. I meet with the individual in Concord on several occassion to try to reason with them on the imbalance and the misuse of the platform for their particular slant on the one vote. This was not the case.

A balance was put in after an appeal to a higher member of the platform and now once again we have now the focus on one item ignoring all the other issues I have led or been part of because this one individual is obsessed with that vote.

Third, I am NOT widely know for being a city councilmember. I am known world wide in the gaming hobby of Diplomacy. KonKord94518 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

“For over 13 years the page was about my role in the Diplomacy Hobby”.

On Wikipedia, consensus can change; so it doesn’t matter what was on this page 13 years ago.

“It also referenced many articles that I had written in regard to that.”

This is problematic, self-published sources are generally frowned upon on Wikipedia.

“I am NOT widely know (sic) for being a city councilmember. I am known world wide in the gaming hobby of Diplomacy.”

A quick Google search of “Edi Birsan” suggests otherwise. That is why it is balanced to emphasize your political career. On Wikipedia, articles are balanced in a way such that due weight is given based on how reliable and prominent sources are. According to another user on this talk page, the Diplomacy sources were not reliable enough for inclusion.

Given there are not any reliable sources about Edi Birsan’s Diplomacy career, and that none of his colleagues on the Council currently have a Wikipedia page– I think we should reevaluate whether Edi Birsan is notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. If a user wants to request for this article to be deleted, I would not be opposed to such an action. Prcc27 (talk) 05:22, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is nonsense that there is not any reliable sources about Edi Birsan's Diplomacy Career. Prcc27 you are simply wrong, I gave you the reference to the independent record on the database.

Knowing you this is just a matter of a continuation of a personal conflict issue. 2600:1700:B940:4E40:944:A1AF:9396:96A9 (talk) 05:32, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, can you please stick to one username? This will make discussion less confusing for everyone. If you look at the old versions of this article, there was a whole paragraph that was unsourced, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt that the sources in question are reliable enough to be included in an encyclopedia. Finally, please remember to assume good faith. Thanks. Prcc27 (talk) 18:19, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Please put forward a proper proposal with proper sourcing. Best regards, -- Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 19:06, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi KonKord94518, Prcc27 and Johannes,

Going back to an earlier version would be more consistent with why Edi Birsan is a notorious character with his own article on our online encyclopedia. Perhaps take inspiration from the Wikipedia page in French? (fr:Edi Birsan)

GabrieL (talk) 09:39, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Gabriel, truly the French version is easily translated and is without the polititcal feud focused comments by Prcc27 that relate to one vote they disagree with. KonKord94518 (talk) 14:07, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gokimines, KalinGrizzly, Danburgess67, That Don Guy, Manushand (all Diplomacy players and contributors on English Wikipedia): Maybe you have an idea on the subject? GabrieL (talk) 10:18, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do not necessarily oppose Edi’s Diplomacy career being included in the article, but we need reliable sources in order for it to be included. Regardless, the gaming career section should not be bigger than the political career section, that would be WP:UNDUE. The French article does not even have a section on his political career, so no, we should not be striving towards what the French article has. Edi Birsan’s gaming career alone is not notable enough for him to have his own article, it may be the icing on the cake (if you all can find proper sources), but his political career is the only thing that is properly and extensively sourced. Also, if you or anyone you pinged have a conflict of interest, you should state that you do, and maybe start a new edit request, since this one was already marked as “not done”..? Prcc27 (talk) 15:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect that there is not enough sources on the Diplomacy Career. Look at the wealth of articles written, the official tournament records etc. For years it was only the Diplomacy record that was recorded in Wikipedia and the political was a footnote. It still remains that real issue is Prcc27 obsession with one vote that dominates their entire actions here. There are plenty of resources on the totallity of what Birsan has done politically, not least of which are about 100 YouTube videos of him in action from the dias of the City Council and 11 years of official city records on votes taken. Prcc27 simply ignores those. KonKord94518 (talk) 16:07, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But are those sources reliable? I am open to including any and all information about Edi’s gaming and political career. If you have something you want added to the article, please feel free to make an edit request with proper sourcing. Wikipedia is not a newspaper, it is not my job to do research on Edi’s political career, I leave it to the reliable sources to analyze his career, and then include that information in the article. Analyzing a YouTube video would be original research, which is not allowed. Prcc27 (talk) 16:55, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is absurd that original material or official minutes of City Council actions are not considered reliable information. As for the hobby actions, there has been NO evidence that the material provided including the data in the World Wide Diplomacy Database is NOT reliable.

Give it up Prcc27. KonKord94518 (talk) 17:46, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I encourage you to familiarize yourself with Wikipedia policy.

Regards, Prcc27 (talk) 17:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request edit - mayor[edit]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Councilmember Birsan is now the Mayor so the article needs updating. Lead should be changed to “is a Concord City councilmember currently serving as mayor”. Mr. Birsan has been vice-mayor and mayor on a few occasions, and the City of Concord rotates mayors, so I do not think it is worth listing every single time he was mayor or vice-mayor. [2] Prcc27 (talk) 04:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Approved Additionally, the claim regarding union support was omitted. The Claycord source states: Using local developers with ties to local organized labor was key throughout the process. Something being "key throughout a process" does not equate to a claim statement that "local unions supported it. " If anything, the key was the local developers, while their "ties to local organized labor" can only be surmised as being part of that key. The article also doesn't state what the key did, just that it was key throughout the process.^[a]

Notes

^ This is a bit like saying you went over to your neighbor's house to access their wall safe. Once you get there however, you discover the owner isn't there. The owner's brother was "key throughout the process". So then how was the brother key, and to what process? Was the safe opened? Or was the brother key to letting you know that the owner wasn't there? Or did they just help you gain access to the house? With that type of vague statement, we have no way of knowing.

Regards, Spintendo 11:59, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Thank you for approving most of my edit request. However, I am still concerned because it says he is mayor in 2024, but the term starts in December 2023, so you cannot tell from the lead that he is currently the mayor. Also, if we are going to add each year he served as vice-mayor and mayor, we would have to add that he served as vice-mayor in 2023 (albeit December 2022-December 2023). I think it would be better to remove the trivia of each year he served as mayor and vice-mayor, and just say he is a Councilmember currently serving as mayor.

As for the union information, that was initially added to the article based on this article. But I guess that source was removed because it wasn’t “independent” and was deemed a “hit piece”? I would be interested to know what you think about the source. Prcc27 (talk) 17:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot to ping @Spintendo:. Prcc27 (talk) 18:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://pioneerpublishers.com/saturday-surprise-with-city-council-tabbing-discovery-seeno-team-for-naval-weapons-project/

[2] This is a bit like saying you went over to your neighbor's house to access their wall safe. Once you get there however, you discover the owner isn't there. The owner's brother was "key throughout the process". So then how was the brother key, and to what process? Was the safe opened? Or was the brother key to letting you know that the owner wasn't there? Or did they just help you gain access to the house? With that type of vague statement, we have no way of knowing.

[1]

[a]