Talk:Dusty Hill

Ref idea

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jul/29/dusty-hill-lifted-zz-top-into-greatness — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popcornfud (talk • contribs) 11:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Probably useful for the link to "Jesus Just Left Chicago" alone. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Discussion: date of death

Dusty Hill died on July 27th not July 28th 47.20.114.175 (talk) 13:12, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done Yes, many thanks for spotting that. The source, at Rolling Stone, says: "ZZ Top bassist Dusty Hill, who played with the Texas blues-rock trio for over 50 years, died Tuesday at age 72." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

How does one know that Dusty died on July 27th and not July 28th? Here is a source showing Wednesday [1] and the ZZ Top website has 07/28/2021 as a date. 73.167.238.120 (talk) 17:53, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Could you clarify where that USA Today source says 28th? And here's the ZZ Top website Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

 Note: We're going to have to wait for sources to come to consensus on this, as multiple reliable sources are reporting different dates. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:59, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

In response to a question above, the USA Today source shows Wednesday, which would be 07/28/2021. 73.167.238.120 (talk) 19:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I see. Yes, it says "died on Wednesday." What about the band's website? I don't see it there at all. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

On the band's website, if you scroll down there is a Read More button which takes you to a statement by the band. There is not a specific day listed such as "died on Wednesday." However, the date is listed at the top of the statement. Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 19:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it's hidden away here. I can't quite believe what a tiny news item it is. But I guess that's the date it was posted. Somewhat inconclusive. Meanwhile, the other 99% of reliable sources...? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry I did not understand the last question. 99% of sources are not reliable because of conflicts around when Dusty died? Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 21:53, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm suggesting that most reliable sources say July 27. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: I updated the article to reflect his death date as just "July 2021" until we can determine the exact date. ––FormalDude^(talk) 22:42, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

• Seems fair, as many sources do not give a date. Of the three sources currently used in the Death section, both The Guardian (which I just added) and Rolling Stone say 27th but, curiously the third, The Independent. which is dated 29th, just quotes the band's statement "We are saddened by the news today that our Compadre, Dusty Hill, has passed away in his sleep at home in Houston, TX." Martinevans123 (talk) 09:41, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

How about this source [2] or the USA Today source above? Using July 2021 seemed like a good idea. Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 14:36, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it says "died at his home in Houston, Texas Wednesday". So another vote for 28th. As with all the other sources I have seen, however, there's no indication that the publication has had access to any special information, perhaps supplied by the family, for example. And with many deaths that occur during sleep at home, often even family members or a doctor will not know the exact time. So it may have been before midnight on 27th, or after midnight in the early hours of 28th. There may be an official announcement, there may not. But funeral details will generally make the situation clearer. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 30 July 2021 (UTC) p.s. this latest interview source basically says that, according to Gibbons, Hill just "fell asleep and didn't wake up".

• Update: At @MelanieN's suggestion, I've changed the death date to "July 27 or 28, 2021" because that is what the reliable sources are verifying. Hopefully we can learn the exact date from a reliable source once the funeral and services take place. ––𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲^(talk) 00:12, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Pinging @Martinevans123. ––𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲^(talk) 00:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

No objection. That is much more accurate, as those are the only two possible dates. Martinevans123 (talk)

Now that blabbermouth.net has reported Hill's wife's post on Facebook here, it seems reasonable to change the date to 28th July. Additionally, funeral details will still be forthcoming. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:23, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The source in the article regarding Dusty Hill's death mentions he died on Tuesday, which would be July 27, 2021. Here is a source, which could be used to replace the Rolling Stone source. [3] There are also sources above. 73.167.238.120 (talk) 01:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. MadGuy7023 (talk) 06:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done 73.167.238.120 (talk) 08:16, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I understand that replacement Elwood was not chosen "after his death" but rather "during temporary medical leave of absence" much earlier

Come on. Just google it. Elwood was chosen to fill in while Dusty was on leave of absence. This article currently says that Elwood was chosen after his death.

In fact the remaining band has not committed to anything following the surprise mortal development. Come on. Just google it. (Not that Google cinches anything, before you sanctimoniously lecture about that; if you click, there are numerous verifiable reports.)2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:4CDA:75C2:2D2F:E7A (talk) 14:34, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

The article just says "Gibbons confirmed that". But I agree the placement of the arm grabbing suggest it was when Hill lay on his death bed? If you have a better source, perhaps you could you provide it here? Just google it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

The article right now reflects the sources. It says Elwood filled in for Dusty when Dusty couldn't play, and then that he replaced Dusty after Dusty died, per Dusty's wishes. That's what the sources say. Popcornfud (talk) 14:55, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

You're inferring, not reading, that those were Dusty's post-mortem wishes. Dusty didn't know he was going to die (which ALSO is inferred, another issue); Dusty knew he was going on leave. And he annointed Elwood to "'Give Elwood the bottom end" DURING HIS ABSENCE. Isn't that what the source says? 2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:4CDA:75C2:2D2F:E7A (talk) 15:08, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, right now, the article says: "After his death, he was replaced by the band's longtime guitar tech Elwood Francis, in line with Hill's wishes." And the source we cite says: "The band's longtime guitar tech, Elwood Francis, will take over on bass, per Hill's wishes." Popcornfud (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

How do we know if Hill "knew he was going to die" or not? In fact, we all know, don't we. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:16, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, Martinevans123, that's my point. Do this: reread the source article (which, wait for it, is one writer for "ultimateclassicrock" - but, hey, wiki's source criteria is unassailable, right?). Assume the article was written one week earlier, as Dusty announced a leave of absence. Consider him grabbing Billy's arm and saying that the show must go on, etc., and the entire article with that perspective.

I surmise that this is what the true perspective is, and that an excitable writer for one website, ultimateclassicrock, [possibly innocently in exuberance] misportrayed everything by the bogus Headline.

Reread the headline as saying "Dusty picks temporary replacement for his upcoming medical leave" and reread the entire article to see what I mean.2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:4CDA:75C2:2D2F:E7A (talk) 15:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

That ain't what the source says though. Ultimate Guitar may be wrong, but that's fine. WP:TRUTH. Popcornfud (talk) 15:35, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

This is how urban legends are born. And once in Wikipedia, now it's off to the races. At some point critical mass is achieved and urban legend is semi-impossible to erase. And that all hinges on THIS, and NOW. Do you like pressure?

Time will tell (or maybe not), but here is a perfectly plausible scenario: Dusty needs medical attention. Tells Billy he's going on leave. Says the show must go on. Grabs Billy's arm and says he blesses Elwood to carry the torch.

And all one week before the shocking surprise. And all in the context of a temporary substitution.

One week later, in the shock of Dusty's unexpected death, Billy relates Dusty's one week old conversation. Grants Sirius permission to run the story.

Every bit of this tracks the cited source.

There's nothing but an exuberant journalist's inference that ANY of that meant post mortem. How could it? Neither Billy nor Dusty knew he would die in Texas in his sleep.2600:6C56:6600:1ECF:4CDA:75C2:2D2F:E7A (talk) 16:50, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Whatever the outcome of this debate, I'm really not sure that Elwood Francis belongs so prominently, or even at all, in the lead section here. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it's WP:DUE - just a passing mention of the guy who took his position. Really the lead should be expanded to cover all the material in the article, it's way too short right now. Popcornfud (talk) 17:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Wholly agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:14, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Quote from interview at forbassplayersonly.com

I don't think the quote is "very long" and I do think it is better placed in the "Musicianship" section. It also shows he had a range of influences, some surprising. I hardly think this is "quote farm" territory. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:QUOTEFARM, "Overuse happens when quotations are used to explain a point that can be paraphrased". Why don't we just paraphrase the info about his influences? Popcornfud (talk) 15:15, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

If you think that would be better, by all means go ahead. Here's what I added: "Questioned about his minimalist style, when interviewed in 2016, he said: "And then I was heavily influenced by Jack Bruce with Cream, and he plays a lot. Even Stanley Clark or Charlie Mingus, a little jazz. So I used to play a lot. But when I started playing in a three-piece, I realized that you have to do the song, not your personal performance, so you have to be tasty with it and enjoy the playing. Writing the song helps a lot; if I'm involved in the writing process, it comes to me. I think one of the best bass players in the world for that is Paul McCartney; he played the perfect part for everything, in every song. Sometimes you don't even notice the bass — I hate that in a way, but I love that in a way. That's a compliment. That means you've filled in everything and it's right for the song, and you’re not standing out where you don’t need to be."" I thought it was better in Hill's own words. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:37, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, as I said in my edit comment, I do think that's a long quote, and half of that quote is already in the article. I've re-added the info about his early influences in prose; I don't see a lot of value in including it as a quote instead. Popcornfud (talk) 15:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh well, slightly personal preference perhaps. I'm surprised you don't think mention of McCartney is warranted. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I definitely considered the McCartney thing - but it's not clear from the interview whether he was citing him as an influence, or just mentioning that he thought he was a good bass player. Not the same thing. Popcornfud (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree it's not the same thing. But yes, it seems he thought McCartney was a good bass player. And worthy of mention by name. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:11, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

In The News - Recent Deaths

This article is currently nominated at WP:ITN/C. If editors think the article is of sufficient size and quality, they are encouraged to support the nomination so that it appears on the Main Page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:12, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Posted as a redirect. Well done! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:17, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Attribution

Text and references copied from Dusty Hill to ZZ Top, See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Nicknames

I have commented out the nicknames, "Duster, The Dust and The Dustbunny", for now as they are unsourced and I have been unable to find any sources. It would be interesting to know where "Dusty" came from on the first place. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:32, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I've seen "The Dust" used quite a bit recently, including a recent message from his wife herself. That also confirms that he died on July 28. It's on their official Facebook page: https://de-de.facebook.com/ZZTop Jules TH 16 (talk) 08:47, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Yes, she even signs herself "Mrs The Dust". And I see see mentions chronic bursitis. Can we use Facebook? It's "user-generated", lol. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:58, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Nah, we'll need reliable sources to mention nicknames. Popcornfud (talk) 11:20, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

And to confirm date of death, I assume. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah. Though any info his wife posted on FB *and* was then reported by a secondary reliable source, then we can quote the reliable source instead, that's fine. Popcornfud (talk) 13:16, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok, none has yet appreared as far as I can see. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Some additional family info

If anyone wants to add any of the following, feel free. I'm a relative and per conflict-of-information rules will refrain, and provide some sources only. Dusty was the second child of Ernest Hill & Myrl Ward Hill (1914-1995) [family info: [4]], after Rocky Hill (12/1/1946-4/10/2009) (obit: [5]). He was previously married to Rhonda Hill (marriage in 1976 or 77)--anyone with access to Houston Chronicle archives, the wedding should be in the society pages, as it was a big affair. They had a single daughter, Codie Jo Hill (1977-2018): obit: [6]. According to the Guardian and some other sources, Dusty has another daughter, surviving, Charity Hill [7], but I've never met or heard of her before this week. All my family contacts are deceased and I haven't seen Dusty in over 20 years. Agarvin (talk) 15:12, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks, Agarvin. I'm unsure of the status of findagrave.com as a WP:RS, especially for linking family. And perhaps someone living nearer has access to the Houston Chronicle archives? We already had mentioned Charity, but I see she's now been removed. Perhaps Codie Jo could be added with that dignitymemorial.com source. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:52, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Source

https://variety.com/2021/music/news/billy-gibbons-interview-zz-top-dusty-hill-died-carrying-on-1235031028/

Yes, this source supports his wife's report on Facebook that Hill had "chronic bursitis". Martinevans123 (talk) 13:38, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The Warlocks

I know discogs.com is not considered WP:RS, but records by The Warlocks can be found here. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

place of funeral

Does anybody know where the place of the funeral was? 73.167.238.120 (talk) 20:51, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Documentary

This is not specific to Dusty Hill, but it is useful and important about the band, and obviously included him. It should be included. WP:Not paper.
In 2019, Netflix released a documentary, ZZTop: That Little Old Band from Texas. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:26, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

It's certainly worth including in the ZZ Top page, but mentioning it on the Dusty Hill page at all is of debatable relevance, and it certainly isn't deserving of its own section with nothing else in it. Popcornfud (talk) 12:14, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

I have eliminated the section.

It should be mentioned, and is worthwhile. We should err on the side of inclusion of the relevant.

Have you seen it? Or is this just a statement without consideration of evidence? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:23, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

I have indeed seen the documentary. Popcornfud (talk) 12:33, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Ooh, harsh. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

I acknowledge that you say you saw it. I know I did. WP:AGF. We disagree. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:23, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Dusty Hill was in King of the Hill

I think this Wiki Article should mention how Dusty was in King of the Hill as a paternal cousin to Hank Hill in S11 Ep5 "Hank Gets Dusted" 72.238.53.30 (talk) 03:30, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

MSN has gone mad!

ZZ Top's Dusty Hill Dead at the Age Of 72 (msn.com) <--- saw this one just this morning. Posted like 12 hours passed...a topic which happened like 15 months ago or so. I don't know whats the story behind this. Not cool. Mechanized art (talk) 05:15, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Married after death???

the article states Dusty died in 2021 - however, further down in the page it states he married his wife in 2022! Clarification needed 77.99.143.108 (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

It says "Hill married his longtime girlfriend, the actress Charleen McCrory, in 2002."? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:10, 29 March 2024 (UTC)