Talk:David Carrett

Redirect and deletion of David Carrett page

Hi Ravenswing,
from the history log of this page [1] I found your following note:

---

13:57, 17 July 2008 Ravenswing (Talk | contribs) (36 bytes)
(In fact, there is only ONE cite on Google News,
and that just mentions the fellow's name.
Per WP:BLP1E[2], no notability beyond the event) (undo)

(...)

---

I would like to remind you that also Gavrilo Princip was "a notable person for ONLY one event":

the starting of World War I.

But even so he has a wikipedia page about him.
Of course I do NOT want to help starting any "World War III, but I would like to help internet surfers (you as well) to focus on this captain of the U.S. Navy Forces, this David Carrett and I think everyone has the right to know more about this person in a structured "wikipedia way" in order to understand better this War on Terror, and what terrorism is all about.
You cite Google News for allegedly having "ONE cite" about him.
Well I didn't find even that "ONE cite".
But THAT is NOT the point.
In the article that you deleted there were:

1. three links to news articles from La Repubblica italian national newspaper,
2. one to "Guardian" a U.K. based newspaper, and last but not least...
3. one to the "Annotico Report, A commentary by Richard Annotico on current news of interest to those of Italian ancestry, that appear in US, Italian, and International publications[3].
   

IMHO I don't think you have the right to cancel like that an article that has involved two users in writing it:

1. me... and;
   
2. Storkk
   

I am not an english wikipedia administrator but I believe that before cancelling it you should have placed at least a speedy deletion template.
That should be the normal procedure.
Anyway if you google "David Garrett" Cia Piazza Fontana bombings [4] you will find two results (Garrett is another way he is known);
If you google "David Carrett" Cia Piazza Fontana bombings [5] you will find 53 results but you will also notice that the at the end of the second search page there will be a note telling you the following:
In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 53 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included[6].
This will prompt you 283 results.
Should I go on about the "notability" on this folk?
Are you sure you understood who we are talking about?
Please note I am note mentioning what you will find googling with italian keywords "David Carrett" "Strage di Piazza Fontana" [7] (hmmm or should I? Well yeah: 905 results!) This talk will be placed on Storkk page and on David Carrett discussion page.
Tomorrow I will revert the page you deleted and I will try to attract some administrator to our discussion.
Nothing personal with you.
Please keep up your good work on wikipedia: I saw you own a lot of barnstars
Thanks for your attention.

Absolutely Trustworthy (talk) 18:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC) P.S.: I am going to the gym right now.

• No, a template was not required; in fact, WP:BLP generally requires editors to be aggressive in dealing with violations. Having gone over your search results, I see that your numerous hits are studded with personal sites, Wiki mirrors and repeats of the same phrasing over and over again, suggesting that the same material is being copied on site after site. What I do not see, as WP:BIO requires, substantive non-trivial coverage from reliable sources independent of the subject and about the subject. Not a single one of these sources treat Carrett as anything other than a trivial mention of a name in the list; not a single one is about Carrett. Mind you, I certainly can't prevent you from reverting the redirect, but the article will go to AfD at the first opportunity thereafter.  Ravenswing  18:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Personal sites, Wiki mirrors and repeats? =

Hi  Ravenswing ,
you said (I quote):
(...) Having gone over your search results, I see that your numerous hits are studded with personal sites, Wiki mirrors and repeats of the same phrasing over and over again, suggesting that the same material is being copied on site after site .
Hmm...
I suspect that it looks like you are bringing your paralegal knowledge on your wikipedia work too and that's great.
Infact you generally speak about "having gone over my search results" but you don't mention which "numerous hits" exactly are studded with "personal sites" (you mean the www.annoticoreport.com blog? Well that's only ONE site).
You forgot to mention the 3 articles published on the national italian newspaper "La Repubblica" and I doubt that you understand italian at this point.
No problem, though, please check what's written with a good [8] before making your final decision.
You say (I quote):
(...)What I do not see, as WP:BIO requires, substantive non-trivial coverage from reliable sources independent of the subject and about the subject. .
Are you trying to say that the italian newspaper "La Repubblica" publishes " trivial coverage from unreliable people that depend of the subject and about the subjects? In My Humble Opinion it sounds like you are discouraging new editors in creating new articles.
Deleting and redirecting is much more easier, huh?
Anyway thanks for your POV.
I will certainly revert the article ASAP and we can certainly face the 5 day discussion for allegedely deleting it if you wish.
Oh, by the way, don't you think that Abu Hafiza should go through AfD too then?
If you google "Abu Hafiza" psychiatrist [9] you will find *ONLY* 293 results.
That's far less than the 905 results that you find googling with the italian keywords "David Carrett" "Strage di Piazza Fontana" [10] .
Thanks for your attention, and please keep up the good work!

Best of all.
Absolutely Trustworthy (talk) 19:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirect and deletion of David Carrett page

Hi Ravenswing,
from the history log of this page [11] I found your following note:

---

13:57, 17 July 2008 Ravenswing (Talk | contribs) (36 bytes)
(In fact, there is only ONE cite on Google News,
and that just mentions the fellow's name.
Per WP:BLP1E[12], no notability beyond the event) (undo)

(...)

---

I would like to remind you that also Gavrilo Princip was "a notable person for ONLY one event":

the starting of World War I.

But even so he has a wikipedia page about him.
Of course I do NOT want to help starting any "World War III, but I would like to help internet surfers (you as well) to focus on this captain of the U.S. Navy Forces, this David Carrett and I think everyone has the right to know more about this person in a structured "wikipedia way" in order to understand better this War on Terror, and what terrorism is all about.
You cite Google News for allegedly having "ONE cite" about him.
Well I didn't find even that "ONE cite".
But THAT is NOT the point.
In the article that you deleted there were:

1. three links to news articles from La Repubblica italian national newspaper,
2. one to "Guardian" a U.K. based newspaper, and last but not least...
3. one to the "Annotico Report, A commentary by Richard Annotico on current news of interest to those of Italian ancestry, that appear in US, Italian, and International publications[13].
   

IMHO I don't think you have the right to cancel like that an article that has involved two users in writing it:

1. me... and;
   
2. Storkk
   

I am not an english wikipedia administrator but I believe that before cancelling it you should have placed at least a speedy deletion template.
That should be the normal procedure.
Anyway if you google "David Garrett" Cia Piazza Fontana bombings [14] you will find two results (Garrett is another way he is known);
If you google "David Carrett" Cia Piazza Fontana bombings [15] you will find 53 results but you will also notice that the at the end of the second search page there will be a note telling you the following:
In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 53 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included[16].
This will prompt you 283 results.
Should I go on about the "notability" on this folk?
Are you sure you understood who we are talking about?
Please note I am note mentioning what you will find googling with italian keywords "David Carrett" "Strage di Piazza Fontana" [17] (hmmm or should I? Well yeah: 905 results!) This talk will be placed on Storkk page and on David Carrett discussion page.
Tomorrow I will revert the page you deleted and I will try to attract some administrator to our discussion.
Nothing personal with you.
Please keep up your good work on wikipedia: I saw you own a lot of barnstars
Thanks for your attention.

Absolutely Trustworthy (talk) 18:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC) P.S.: I am going to the gym right now.

• No, a template was not required; in fact, WP:BLP generally requires editors to be aggressive in dealing with violations. Having gone over your search results, I see that your numerous hits are studded with personal sites, Wiki mirrors and repeats of the same phrasing over and over again, suggesting that the same material is being copied on site after site. What I do not see, as WP:BIO requires, substantive non-trivial coverage from reliable sources independent of the subject and about the subject. Not a single one of these sources treat Carrett as anything other than a trivial mention of a name in the list; not a single one is about Carrett. Mind you, I certainly can't prevent you from reverting the redirect, but the article will go to AfD at the first opportunity thereafter.  Ravenswing  18:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Um... just a comment for clarity, I do not endorse, and have not endorsed, any claims to the person's notability. If the article is recreated as such (i.e. your redirect edit is reverted), however, I think it should undergo AfD rather than re-reversion. Just my 2 cents, and wanted to distance myself from the whole shebang after some mess was posted on my talk page seeming to imply that I disagreed with your actions. --Storkk (talk) 19:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Wonder why? In any event, yeah, of course I'd take it to AfD rather than edit war over it ... and we both know consensus would be to merge to the bombing article.  Ravenswing  03:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

You are invited to contribute to the inevitable at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Carrett. Cheers, Storkk (talk) 09:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)