Talk:Counts of Celje

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English name[edit]

Is historical name "Counts of Cilli" instead of modern English name "Counts of Celje" really correct in this sense? The article already says further on: The family is referred to in historical science as Counts of Cilli. --xJaM (talk) 14:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The house should be referred to in English by the original historic name "of Cilli". What is the original historical name "of Cilli"? What is sure is that "Cilli" is very likely (adopted old) German name, but the question is if it is the original one. Medieval Latin was used until 1300 (and then Renaissance Latin began to develop), and in this language in this time the city was called Cylie. Approximately at this time German language also began to emerge as language of communication, and around 1300 documents were written in it. Louis IV on April 16, 1341 gave a title of "Counts of Celje" to Frederick I who was at that time Lord of Sanneck (Žovnek; de Soune, nobilis de Sauna). Since this event took place in the times of Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, I guess this is not much of historical name, just the name, that was most probably used in the time of denomination, although there is a possibility that "of Cilli" was later term, perhaps used by later chroniclers and histrorians - that is why I wonder why (modern) English designation should use purely German name. --xJaM (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For instance, Henry VIII of England (1491 – 1547) in this manner should be named something like "Henry VIII of Angli", since Angli is a 'historical' name (in fact just name in Latin of this time) and according to OED the modern spelling of "England" was first used in 1538 (just 9 years before King Henry's death. Of course, we might also think retrospectively in a way that England and Celje are 'still' not historical names, and they are still developing. Perhaps WP:NCNT will give some additional help on this. --xJaM (talk) 14:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Antique name of Celje was Celea (not Tselea) but spoken as 'Kaleia'. The Slovene transliteration is Tselje - so from the Slavic (not from Gothic ('german') Bavarian) term derived 'Cili')=Tsili). Bavarians were renaming many Slavic cities, rivers and hills after the fall of Carantania. Several Slovene historians claim that Counts of Celje were of the Karantanian origin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.165.116.218 (talk) 30 November 2013 (UTC)

( countess Ema (Hema) have had her Karantanian ancestry over the prince, knez Volkun or Valtunk (Waltunc) and Panonnian knez Svetopolk. How ever Valhun was not well accepted prince in Slovene, Austrian territories after the death of knez Hotimir, because of his war against Slovene old faith. He came to power via Christian Bavarians and started civil war against the 'pagan' (Staroverstvo) (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staroverstvo) population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.182.76.246 (talk) 1 December 2013 (UTC)