Talk:Consecrated life

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Older comments[edit]

I've converted some of the references from the text into footnotes and added hyperlinks to the Code of Canon Law itself. I think having the references as footnotes will help to prevent the article being mistakenly flagged up as being original research —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethelthryth679 (talk • contribs) 21:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Consecrated Life: hermits in the Roman Catholic Church[edit]

Someone added quotations from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

1) I do not consider it appropriate to include these quotations in a general article on the Consecrated Life. If such extensive quotations from the Catechism ought to be given in Wikipedia, their place is in the article on hermits. But since apart from taking up space no harm is done by leaving them in here, I am leaving the decision whether to delete the quotations from the Catechism to later editors.

2) A more important point: The undoubtedly interesting comments from the Catechism must not detract from the fact that in the Roman Catholic Church it is the Code of Canon Law 1983 that is normative, not the Catechism, which is merely a kind of commentary (see the Apostolic Constitution "Fidei Depositum" on the purpose of the Catechism). Therefore I had previously provided the text of canon 603 concerning consecrated hermits and moved the quotations from the Catechism added by someone else to a position further down. But on re-visiting the article today I found that a subsequent editor deleted the text of canon 603 and in its place moved back the quotations from the Catechism. I have now restored the text of canon 603 to the appropriate place in the article (and – again out of consideration for the other editor's apparently strong interest in the quotations from the Catechism – have not deleted them but relegated them once more to a posterior position).

11:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge?[edit]

Someone has proposed merging this article with Consecrated life (Catholic Church). I agree. Both article are about consecrated life as understood and regulated by the Catholic Church. I don't think "consecrated life" is used as a technical term outside the Catholic Church. I therefore think the merged article should bear the simple title "Consecrated life". Esoglou (talk) 19:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal was made by User:Teukros. Esoglou (talk) 07:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone ahead and performed the merge. Esoglou (talk) 19:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Graphical aid (Intricate topics)[edit]

May someone make an Euler diagram (or some other kind of graphical aid), to unravel the intricate relationships among the related topics: religious institute, secolar istitute, society of apostolic life, religious orders, religious congregations and so on? --5.170.71.110 (talk) 10:03, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The outline in Institute of consecrated life might be helpful. Mannanan51 (talk) 19:38, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Catholic POV[edit]

Is Consecrated life related only to Catholic church?! --79.50.143.229 (talk) 15:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article is on behalf of the state of life in the catholic church which is called consecreated life, see first sentence.--Medusahead (talk) 09:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Broadening the scope of the article[edit]

@Elizium23: @Omnipaedista: @Marcocapelle: Hello again. I feel the article could be broadened by including monasterial traditions of other Churches. However, we could also keep it centered on the Catholic Church as @Epistulae ad Familiares: and @Medusahead: have proposed. What do you think? Veverve (talk) 06:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is it known as "consecrated life" in other traditions or is it by another name? If we expand the scope, we need to consider a name that will be inclusive. I can see good rationale for adding e.g. Anglican and Lutheran religious institutes. Elizium23 (talk) 06:53, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If there is wp content about e.g. Anglican and Lutheran religious institutes already, then adding links in the "see also" section may suffice. See also Taize by the way. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:17, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The term "consecrated life" is never used in the Eastern Orthodox Church. It is used in the Church of England though (see 1). I am not so familiar with other traditions. --Omnipaedista (talk) 09:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As the introduction says: "Consecrated life is a state of life in the Catholic Church…" (italics in the citation are mine). Among other arguments, Consecrated life is also used as a legal term. (It isn't intended to say that other churches have no dedicated forms of followership, but they do not use the term in that way, just as little as the Orthodox churches. No one would even bother to say they have no monasterial tradition.) --Medusahead (talk) 09:30, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Christian monasticism already exists, so the only candidates to expand the page are apparently Anglicans. Veverve (talk) 16:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I would be interested to know if there are forms of consecrated life in other traditions which are not monasticism. It would seem that in Eastern Orthodoxy it's monasticism or nothing. Clearly if "Call the Midwife" is to be believed, there are/were Anglican sisters in apostolates that were not cloistered. And so forth. Elizium23 (talk) 19:44, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So, does everyone agree to expand the scope of the article? Veverve (talk) 12:44, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I apologise for joining this discussion late. Similar to Medusahead and Omnipaedista, I do not any need to create yet another article for the topic of 'people who make vows to live in a special state of life but not just in the Catholic Church'. Whether the intent is to broadly encompass non-Catholic Christian or non-Christian contexts, that can already be achieved by expanding Religious order. If a denomination-specific context is required, then a specific article like Anglican religious order and Orthodox monasticism can be created, depending on the appropriate WP:COMMONNAME that is used by that particular religion/denomination, and providing it fulfills the requirements of WP:GNG. Apart from the solitary example of the Anglican's Single Consecrated Life network, there is not evidence that reliable sources predominantly use 'consecrated life' as the WP:COMMONNAME to refer to an analogous state of life in non-Catholic denomination or cross-denominational contexts that isn't covered by existing articles. There are already many closely-related articles on this topic, I think creating yet another article would only WP:OVERLAP with existing articles.
As I understand, the main reason why this topic exists on its own within the Catholic Church separate from Evangelical counsels and Institute of consecrated life is because it receives significant coverage by reliable sources that address it specifically as its own topic independently from the other two, e.g. discussing the legal and theological statuses and categories of people in the Catholic Church who are in this state of life but may not necessarily be organised in an Institute of consecrated life. This appears to be in large part due to Catholic canon law discussing it as a specific legal concept. This thus qualifies this topic to exist independent of the other articles per WP:RELAR. This cannot necessarily be said of analogous situations in non-Catholic contexts.
If the Single Consecrated Life network has merited significant coverage, it can probably be given its own article, but I do not think it is necessarily that huge a topic that it would have to displace the current article, which unambiguously remains the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC that most readers would be looking for. Epistulae ad Familiares (talk) 07:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 January 2021[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time. BD2412 T 06:19, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consecrated life → Consecrated life in the Catholic Church – Since this article is only about this subject in the Catholic Church, since it seem like no one is going to expand the scope of the article, since some have already added info on this article which did not concern the Catholic Church and have been reverted since the article is only about what takes place in the Catholic Church, I propose we rename the article for WP:PRECISION and to avoid people mistakenly add information about this state in other churches. Veverve (talk) 08:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Jack Frost (talk) 10:30, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support this is a generic and broad term, which article content is not. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:41, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - As my argument above. This would become a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of Religious order, and 'Consecrated life' is not at at all a universal term nor WP:COMMONNAME for analogous situations in non-Catholic contexts. If confusion with analogous situations in non-Catholic contexts is a concern, then a hatnote would suffice. If coverage of the Single Consecrated Life network is the concern, then it can be given its own article if it fulfills WP:GNG without requiring a renaming of this article as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of this term. Epistulae ad Familiares (talk) 07:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Epistulae ad Familiares, the Catholic concept is the primary topic. Vpab15 (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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