Talk:Cheddar cheese/Archive 1

Archive 1

Cheddar cheese family?

I've never heard that there is a Cheddar cheese family, but I can accept that. However, I would think it very unlikely that Wensleydale and Caerphilly belong to it - they are very very different types of cheese, being white and crumbly rather than solid and yellow/orange. Are we quite sure this is true? Deb 17:29 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Deb. I don't think there is a Cheddar cheese family. All the cheeses listed are very different in taste, colour, and texture. Anyone object to an update ? Julianp 02:32, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• "English cheeses such as Gloucester, Cheshire, Leicester, Lancashire, Derby, Wensleydale and Caerphilly all belong to the Cheddar family." as per [1] -- Nunh-huh 02:43, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi Nunh-huh (how do you pronouce that !) I checked out reference [1] and it still seems wrong to me. I'll check out some local references and see if I can find any evidence for it. Julianp 02:47, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Hi. It could be wrong, but just wanted to indicate that the idea of a cheddar family wasn't without support. I wonder if it might not be that using place of origin / technique of manufacture / taste as criteria might not lead people to different ways to classify cheeses and that what sounds right using one method of classification sounds wrong under another? And I've never heard it said aloud, but I'm proposing that the 'h' in Nunh is silent<G>. -- Nunh-huh 03:26, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I would have thought the 'cheddar family' would simply encompass any cheese that calls itself cheddar, running from the mild cheddar through to "Canadian Reserve" and similar extra-mature varieties.128.232.250.254 23:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard a cheese call itself anything ... (must listen harder)  :-) quota (talk) 15:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, good cheddar often is very crumbly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.163.185 (talk) 13:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Moon made of cheese

Removed: According to the Aardman Animation cartoon characters Wallace and Gromit, the Moon is made of cheddar cheese. This in itself is a perpetuation of an extremely old and persevering English folk myth, frequently related to gullible youngsters, which made and still to this day makes similar assertions.

If I recall my Wallace and Gromit correctly, they didn't identify the type of cheese that the Moon was made of. And does the old myth (no, wait, it's true!) about the Moon being made of cheese specify that it's Cheddar cheese? As far as I know, it doesn't. So I've removed the whole thing. -- Oliver P. 13:26 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It usually specifies "green cheese" (meaning unripened, rather than a color), not cheddar. -- Nunh-huh 02:45, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Colour

"Like many cheeses, the colour of cheddar is often modified by the use of food colourings. Annatto, extracted from a tropical tree, is frequently used to give cheddar an orange colour

Is this a US thing? In my experience if its orange it isn't cheddar. Propose to remove. Any comments? Julianp 03:41, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Your experience differs from that of Food Network and Food reference, but I don't know if that has anything to do with nationality. - Nunh-huh 03:48, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Some UK cheeses are coloured orange (e.g.Gloucester) but never cheddar. Of course some colouring may be used for consistency is mass-produced cheddar cheeses (but not orange). I now live in Australia and there is no orange cheddar here either. Shall we make it an "In the U.S. ....." ? Julianp 04:06, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't add anything based on personal experience. Is there some source somewhere that discusses national cheese traditions? I wonder, like you, if it's not more a matter of mass-produced vs locally-produced. =- Nunh-huh 05:38, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

As a Brit (and a cheese), I'm here to tell you that we do in fact have artificially orange (or "red") cheddar over here (and yes, it tends to be of the mass-produced, mild, rather tasteless, variety). --Camembert

Camebert is correct. Double Gloucester and Red Leicester cheeses are _always_ (or virtually always) artificially coloured. "Coloured cheddar", invariable the mild variety, is available; it would be interesting if sales figures for coloured vs uncoloured cheddar was available. 128.232.250.254 23:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

In England, where the cheese originates, Cheddar is pale yellow even the processed variety. I haven't seen any other colour. I don't know which part of Britain Camebert is from.This entry needs changing to be less American orientated.--Mariegriffiths 22:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm told a lot of Scottish cheddar is coloured orange - and that certainly seemed the case the one time I bought cheddar in an Aberdeen supermarket. 79.199.120.91 (talk) 17:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It does seem common in the US for mass-market cheddar to be brightly colored (orangish), but it would be hard to pin down exact facts on the matter. 69.87.193.151 14:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, indentifying cheddar speciffically as a coloured cheese would be mainly an American thing. In Australia I've never come accross coloured cheddar, no matter where the original product was produced, processed or not. In fact, the whole section on the "character" of Cheddar chese would probbaly be better titled as the chraracter of cheddar chese in the US. OzoneO 14:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is an American thing. I've seen cheeses coloured, but I have yet to see cheddar coloured orange here in the states. When I lived in London I learnt that cheeses shouldn't be coloured. Ron James 007 (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You commonly get orange-coloured cheddar in the supermarkets of Scotland. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.252.107 (talk) 14:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

King Henry and his cheese

A pipe roll of King Henry II records the purchase of 10,420 pounds (4.73 tonnes) at a farthing per pound (£5.51 per tonne).

Just a note for whover wrote this: you're correct up to figuring out that this is 551 pence per tonne (2205 farthings per tonne, and a tonne is 2204.62262 pounds). But this was old money, and there were 240 pence in the pound, not 100. I've changed it accordingly. Marnanel 18:39, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This story about Henry does NOT need to be at the fore of the article. 24.13.86.24 04:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I can say that In Canada we also colour most of our cheddar orange and I came to this site to find out why!

From my experience only poorer cheaper 'Chedders' are coloured orange / red. Just look at the cheap cheese section of your (UK) supermarket. Apart from some odd novelty branded cheese the red chedder will be very poor quality / shops own brand. If you ask me though there isn't much difference (taste wise) between supermarket red chedder and red leicester. There probably isn't any difference whatsoever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.181.205 (talk) 21:21, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Cheddar is a village, not a town

I have corrected this article to say that Cheddar is a village, not a town. I then reverted a reversion of my correction. In addition to being a resident of the village, and its own Wikipedia article a quick internet search has shown the following sources that correctly site the settlement as a village: [2], [3] and [4]. Thryduulf 16:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

So go edit Cheddar and remove it from Category:Towns in Somerset before you come back. Or just forget this silliness. Gene Nygaard 16:48, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've corrected the category Cheddar is in. It seems people have a penchent for calling it a town. It is not a town and never has been, the next settlement Axbridge is a town, although it is smaller than Cheddar. The reason for this is that it was granted a charter by King John to become a town, as at that period in history Axbridge was the more important place. Cheddar didn't start growing to the size it is today until the Victorian era. Thryduulf 16:57, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I was mostly interested in pointing out how silly the whole thing is. Even if you hadn't changed the village's category, I don't really care. I live in a "city" myself—even though it has a lot fewer people than either Cheddar or Axbridge, it has a lot more than some of the other cities in Wikipedia, such as the city of Wellington (pop. 561)! Gene Nygaard 19:09, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean it doesn't interest other people! If it were my home, I'd want it described properly. Be more polite.

I imagine we'd have to ship you off to Bedlam if you ever had to deal with the "village" of Rock City or the "city" of Prairie Village! Gene Nygaard 19:23, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Don't tell him that the City of New Orleans is a train; he might go flip out and kill people. 24.13.86.24 04:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Why so hostile? Cheddar is a village, in the UK naming convention is adhered to and since this refers to a British product Village is the correct terminology to use. 84.67.49.73 (talk) 00:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Vermont cheddar

Could someone please provide a citation to support the assertion that white cheddar is called Vermont cheddar even when it does not originate from Vermont? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.166.248 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 17 February 2006

In America, some forms of white cheddar are called Vermont Cheddar. Just in the US. Nowhere else. So it doesn't belong as anything more than a footnote. --Joseph Leito (talk) 20:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Popularity

Removed:

Cheddar cheese has perhaps always been the most popular cheese in England.

No evidence for this. Also, article on Cheshire Cheese states that during the 1800 it was the most popular.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.122.30 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 2 April 2006

Wax

I think it is extremely unlikely that "cheddar is traditionally packaged in black wax". Cheesecloth seems likely. While it is occasionally packaged in wax (I have seen black) I think this is probably new. I only have one oldish cheese book - will see if it says anything, but otherwise I will remove/rewrite this line. Justinc 10:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Mexican Cheeses

Queso Amarillo (yellow cheese) is a Mexican variety of cheddar usually produced from longhorn milk. It's milder than many cheddars and rather drier. It's available in markets in the Southwest US and is frequently used in restaurants. Queso Blanco (white cheese) is a blander, softer Mexican cheese similar to Monterey Jack. Queso Fresco is a soft white Mexican cheese that can be used as a spread. Queso Seco is a very dry, hard Mexican chesse rather like Romano. Queso Enchilado is Queso Seco with chili pepper flavoring. Many of these cheeses are produced by American dairies. Halfelven (talk) 07:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

royal cheese

this sentence is bothersome in so many ways:

A pipe roll of King Henry II records the purchase of 10,420 pounds at a farthing per pound (£3 per tonne).

as someone has noted above, its placement in the lead paragraph of the article is unwarranted. this alone is hardly one of the most significant facts about cheddar cheese.

it also lacks the kind of context that would make it at all relevant to this or any other article, except perhaps List of items purchased with royal funds during the reign of Henry II of England (an article that would probably be deleted, and deserve it). we're not told:

• if this amount of cheese is significant or insignificant relative to the amount that was produced in england in whatever unspecified year this pipe roll is from. was the king hogging all the cheese, or was it so abundant that he could buy 10,000 pounds of it without significantly affecting the market, or was his purchase significant but not overwhelming? (for that matter, what other kinds of cheese did he purchase, and how much of them? was cheddar far and away the favorite, or was it equal to others, or was it less popular?)
• how the amount and the price (enumerated in minute detail as they are) relate to the amounts purchased and prices paid at other times. do they perhaps indicate a shortage of cheese in this unspecified year? a glut? a normal amount?
• why this cheese was purchased. was this just business as usual? (if so, was it for a year, a month, a week?) was henry II very, very fond of cheese? was his royal household? did he need easily transportable food supplies? was there a famine or food shortage somewhere that he was trying to alleviate with shipments of government cheese?

and to top it all off, there is no source provided, so there's no way to verify if this fact is even true (unless one has £20.00 to spare and can read whatever medieval language is used in these pipe rolls[5]—if it's even in one of those), or to see if perhaps some historian of cheeses has provided any of the answers that would add some shred of relevance. i'm going to remove it until it can be made into more than a free-floating bit of trivia. 65.95.37.193 11:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

update: i see that once upon a time there was some attempt at making this information useful. perhaps it was correct, perhaps it was an unwarranted interpretation (no reference, no way to check), but it was at least an attempt. it got deleted by someone who wasn't paying enough attention to realize that the next sentence was there only as supporting evidence for the statement that cheddar was perhaps always the most popular cheese in england. 65.95.37.193 11:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Sources don't appear to be a problem, a quick google search for Henry II Cheddar cheese -wikipedia gives many websites with the claim, the source for several of these appears to be The Cheddar Gorge Cheese Company (a cheese maker based in Cheddar Gorge), and the date appears to be 1170. All site the same "pipe roll", which would presumably be written in Anglo-Norman French (although it is possible, but unlikely, it could be in Middle English) - I speak neither of these languages. Thryduulf 12:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the sentence, and added the source and date. However I've moved it from the lead paragraph into a new Trivia section at the end. Thryduulf 12:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

the page now cited implies that the significance of this record is that it's the earliest known reference to cheddar cheese. put that way, this fact is highly relevant and does indeed belong in the intro paragraph. 65.95.37.193 16:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Sheep & Goats

Can cheddar be made from sheep milk? Can cheddar be made from goat milk? 69.87.204.160 20:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Cheddar cheese can also be made from goat milk. There are over 500,000 google matches for "goat cheddar", oodles of people selling it, so anyone with any interest in this fact can easily determine the truth. I edited the article to reflect this. Someone immediately reverted. So, now it will be up to the rest of you to defend the truth, if you care. 69.87.194.144 00:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for putting the goats back in. I was contemplating adding the text "Cheddar is usually made from cow milk, but can also be made from goat milk." It would be good if someone who knows about goats ever comes here if they would add an appropriate section. Based on the large number of google matches, I think "rarely goats" may still be over-qualified. But only someone who really knows chesse, cheddar, cows, and goats can say for sure! It seems that most any cheese can also be made from goat milk, but that cheddar is perhaps the most common hard cheese that actually is. 69.87.193.151 14:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's a tricky situation: I suspect goat cheddar is a very minor aspect of "cheddar cheese", but a fairly significant aspect of "goat cheese". The main Cheese article is pretty good, but only deals with goat and sheep in passing. So it seems like whatever we have to say about goat cheddar has to go here, at least until we get a proper "goat cheese" article. 69.87.199.92 20:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Cheddar Live

We have just completed installation, on behalf of a client, of a web-cam which will be recording the full year-long life cycle of a block of PDO'd Cheddar Cheese.

The cheese in question was born yestarday.

Personally I think it's quite an interesting opportunity for anyone such as myself who eats and enjoys Cheddar but has no experience of how it's made or matured.

Nevertheless being quite a wiki-newbie I'm not 100% sure whether it's appropriate for the Cheddar Cheese wiki page so I'm posting here in the hope that someone might share their views.

The camera is streamed through a Flash widget at www.cheddarvision.tv

--Jimbo 14:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the info here. My attempts to View the Cheese have failed -- makes my Firefox crash in Win98SE (and Opera too)... I can't well judge if it might belong on the article page somehow, but since it is your project, you probably should not be trying to figure that out -- better to leave it to us more neutral folk to decide if it seems Worthy! 69.87.204.125 19:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Superb. Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun on Wikipedia IMHO. I watched the cheese for a while, although not much happened. Going back to watching the paint dry as the grass doesn't grow much at this time of year. --Cheesy Mike 21:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

First picture

I wonder if we can find a better picture for the top of the article. A bright orange cuboid is hardly a good example of a Cheddar cheese :-) quota 07:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

On that point, locally produced cheddars in California and Oregon are frequently white (butter colored, really). And they are not called Vermont cheddar. Halfelven (talk) 07:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Sharpness standards?

Much of the cheese sold in the US as "sharp" or "extra sharp" does not actually seem to taste very sharp. Are there any standards regarding this? Is the situation any different in Europe? -69.87.201.47 18:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

UK labelling relates to strength. Typical labels are mild, medium, mature and extra mature. Some also use vintage. There is no standardisation so one brand's mild will be another's medium. Mild tends to be factory-made block cheese. Most hand made or "farmhouse" Cheddars tend to be at the stronger end of the spectrum. --Cheesy Mike 19:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Vegetarian cheddar?

"A slice of vegetarian Cheddar cheese (40 g) contains about 0.5 µg of vitamin B12 (required daily intake for an adult is 2.4 µg)."

What the heck is vegetarian cheddar? It was not introduced in the article prior to discussing it's nutritional benefits. From the name it sounds like an imitation cheese. Could someone define this term earlier in the article, or if, so to speak, it is a completely different animal, perhaps it should be removed entirely... -Verdatum (talk) 20:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Vegetarian cheddar is made using rennet that is not sourced from dead calves' stomachs. Will adjust article accordingly. --TimTay (talk) 21:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Expertly done, I appreciate the speedy response! -Verdatum (talk) 14:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

As a resident of Cheddar and frequent consumer of the cheese it would be rude not to! --TimTay (talk) 14:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Soy Cheese can also be made into a vegetarian cheddar, I believe. I think it's bloody ridiculous for cheese to be vegetarian, but I guess it happens. Ron James 007 (talk) 18:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosher cheeses are also made from rennet that is not sourced from calves, that would violate kosher rules. Vegetarian cheese seems like an oxymoron, and there's no mention of kosher cheese. Halfelven (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Cheddar

I have added a bit about Cheddar's origins being French, brought to England by the Romans, where he recipe was adapted into the Cheddar we know today. This is in a book by one of the world's leading cheese experts, so it is a valid addition, properly referenced. Harry the Dog WOOF 19:58, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

A single book by a Frenchman about an English cheese coming from France hardly constitutes a definitive reference. If it is true then why is it not backed up by any other reference? I think my edit presenting it as one suggestion of the history is a reasonable one and I will therefore reinstate it. Provide more references and we can make it a more definitive statement. --TimTay (talk) 20:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Production

In the Process section its says "after heating, the curd is kneaded with salt, then is cut into cubes to drain the whey, then stacked and turned" however in the main article it says the curds are cooked, drained, set, cut, stacked, drained and milled before the salt is added. These two descriptions of the process sound entirely different to me and looking at the reference for the first statement, all it says about the process is "Cheddaring" - kneading the curds with salt - gives the cheese a smooth density. After Cheddaring, the cheese is chopped, pressed, wrapped and matured" - which doesn't support the statement at all. Richerman (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction

This article references its historical information from a source that may not be historically accurate.(Although I did fix the broken link to this source). It states that the first Cheddar records are from 1170, and indicate a purchase at a price of a farthing per pound. The Wikipedia article on the farthing, indicates that the farthing was not minted until ~50 years later(1216).

So there is something wrong in one of these articles. Perhaps they use the word "farthing" to mean "quarter penny", or perhaps this information is incorrect, or perhaps the farthing was in use earlier than the wiki article indicates. Either way, there is a contradiction.75.82.133.73 (talk) 02:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

If the event were written about in 1216 or later then it is highly likely they would have used farthing as a unit of currency. Unfortunately neither the reference in the article (nor this one) are clear about when the records date from so there is no way of knowing. But given that "farthing" is used in the reference I'm happy to let it stand. --Simple Bob (talk) 06:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

tasty cheese error

Tasty is not a synonym for Cheddar in Australia. It is a type of cheese, similar to the term "sharp" used in the US. 122.107.80.75 (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

cloth bound cheddars

I am not 100% certain that the cloth is impervious to micro-organisms as the article claims. I believe, although cannot presently provide evidence, that there is a certian strain of mould which grows in the muslin which the cheese is wrapped in which aids in the maturation process.Shuggyg (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Truckles etc

there should be a section on the sizing of cheddars like truckle and pounder etc.Shuggyg (talk) 09:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

These terms aren't specific to cheddar cheese so such a section would be more appropriate in the cheese article. As for the comment above about cloth bound-cheddars it says "contaminants", which would include dust and dirt, not "micro-organisms". However, I'm sure a larded cloth would keep out mould spores and bacteria. Richerman (talk) 11:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Not so, when you remove the cloth from cheddars at 6 months, 12 months and 18 months, and look at the cheeses, it can be quite variable what you find inside the cheese. Often blue moulds grow within the cheese, and a brown growth can be found very often radiating from small white spots. The brown ones often crack inside the cheese, where the blue ones are often vein like. These appear more often the older the cheese is. Fungal spores are very hardy and do not require light to grow, and due to their filamentous nature (where they secrete the digestive enzymes from the very tip of their filaments or "hyphae") they can grow in through the wax etc similar to a root tip growing through soil. The goal of cloth in cloth bound cheddars may or may not be to stop contaminants, but it doesnt stop the growth of micro-organisms, the only thing that is not clear to me is whether it is intentional or not that the microorganisms grow in the cheese. I have heard lots of people say a bit of blue in an old montgomery's is part of the cheese's character, but other times people say it is just contamination from bad practice and cross contamination from blue veined cheese varieties.Shuggyg (talk) 11:45, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Hmm yes - suppose it would stop the bacteria but not moulds once they start growing. However, wouldn't the mould on the cheese be more likely to have got in before it's wrapped? On your point above about mould in the muslin, I have a vague memory of seeing something on TV about cheeses (I can't remember which variety) being turned regularly and the mould on the outside being rubbed in (or maybe washed off with brine) to form a rind. And There is something here and here that says cheese rinds are formed from edible mould spores although they're not necessarily talking about cheddar. Richerman (talk) 13:30, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

well the rind is formed through a variety of factors such as growth of moulds and bacteria and fungi, but when you break it down, basically they are there due to oxidation (whether through the air, or through enzymatic oxidation). Basically I think we used to make sure we turned our cheeses frequently but mostly because if you dont turn them enough they get really fat at one end. Brushing a large cheese like a cheddar removes cheese mites which are a constant plague in any cheesemongers/larder, washed rind cheeses are a completely different type of cheese where the rind is washed in regional wines/spirits/brine e.t.c. and allows the growth of a different type of bacteria than normal which in turn gives the cheese a very strong odour, often a very salty taste, and makes it ripen from the inside out rather than the outside in like a standard cheese, but that is not how it is done with cheddar. Bloomy/white mould cheeses have spores added specifically to allow growth of the white penicillium fungus you see on the cheeses such as brie e.t.c. I believe that cave aged cheddar does acquire moulds, however they are not specifically addded.Shuggyg (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Flying cheese nonsense

I removed a news item, originally added by Quota, which is a bit of nonsense about a publicity stunt by a cheesemaker who launched a piece of cheese into "space" on a balloon. WP:NOTNEWS seems clear to me - this is not a notable news item and it adds absolutely no value to this article. What possible argument can there be to keep the item in the article? --Simple Bob (talk) 10:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Slow Food - Quickes

"Notable Cheddar cheeses from Somerset include "Quickes"" - having grown up in Devon only a few miles from the Quickes Farm (and taken the cheese making tour as a school trip), I'm confused how their cheddar could be "from Somerset" 87.194.3.233 (talk) 08:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I hadn't notice that howler. Now fixed. --Simple Bob (talk) 08:46, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Restored recent deletion from the intro

... because the reason was given was that the information is repeated below. However, that should be true of almost all of the information in the introductory section...

In this case, The 'real' cheddar is the one protected, and so that should be mentioned in the intro. quota (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Cheddar was not originally made in Cheddar, but marketed and/or matured there.

It seems that partisans of a cheese company based in Cheddar are keen to push the idea that cheese was originally made there. This is not the accepted view, and so have changed teh lede.93.96.148.42 (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

On what basis do you allege that partisans of the cheese company in Cheddar are hijacking the article? What is the accepted view? The source you gave from the independent clearly stated that the cheese originated in Cheddar. You must have interpreted it to mean something else. --Simple Bob (talk) 07:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Nutritional Information removed from the article

I have moved this here as cheddar is not a standard product so the figures are aproximate but give a false impression of accuracy. In addition they are an inccomplete and edited version of the figures published by the USDA.

Cheddar cheese

Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz)
Energy	1,684 kJ (402 kcal)
Carbohydrates	1.28 g
Fat	33.14 g
Protein	24.90 g
Vitamins	Quantity %DV†
Vitamin A equiv. beta-Carotene lutein zeaxanthin	29% 265 μg 1% 85 μg 0 μg
Folate (B9)	5% 18 μg
Vitamin D	3% 24 IU
Vitamin K	2% 2.8 μg
Minerals	Quantity %DV†
Calcium	55% 721 mg
Magnesium	7% 28 mg
Phosphorus	41% 512 mg
Zinc	28% 3.11 mg
†Percentages estimated using US recommendations for adults, except for potassium, which is estimated based on expert recommendation from the National Academies.

93.96.148.42 (talk) 02:09, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the figures should be removed. If we can find properly sourced ones then they should be put back in. --Simple Bob (talk) 07:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Record age of ultra-reserved cheddars

Cabot Cheese sells an extremely reserved 2 lb block of cheese through their website called "Old School". This cheddar has been aged for FIVE YEARS before being sold to the public. Does anyone know what the record is, for the longest-aged cheddar cheese? Or is this perhaps it?

http://www.cabotcheese.com

Colby Cheese vs. Cheddar Cheese

Given the article on Colby cheese, it would seem that the section on US Cheddar cheeses needs to be changed. I will do so; please feel free to revert or edit if you believe this is wrong. The old version is here:

In the United States, cheddar cheese comes in several varieties, including mild, medium, sharp, New York Style, Colby/Longhorn, white, and Vermont. New York Style Cheddar cheese is a particularly sharp cheddar cheese, sometimes with a hint of smoke. It is usually slightly softer than milder cheddar cheese. Colby/Longhorn Cheddar cheese has a mild to medium flavor. The curds are still distinct, often marbled in color, varying from cream to yellow.

Yes, this needs to be changed. Longhorn cheese comes in both cheddar and colby varieties and colby is very distinct from cheddar. Also, the reference to curds is confusing, I've no idea what this is supposed to mean, I've never seen distinct curds in any of the cheeses mentioned. I have seen cheese labelled Colby/Cheddar. I've always supposed that they did that because they knew it was an orange cheese (in the US, both are frequently orange, well, colby is a US cheese) but did not know which one it was. Longhorn is a source, the milk is low fat from longhorn cattle, I've seen longhorn mozzarella in specialty shops. Colby and cheddar are cheese types based on processing. It's not a good idea to confuse terms or use them in a confusing manner in an encyclopedia. Halfelven (talk) 06:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I deleted the colby info. It is not backed up by the colby article, a Google search for "Colby Cheddar" yields results comparing the two after the Wiki article for colby, and there's no citation. Plus, I'm from the US and I've never been under the impression that colby is cheddar. 75.95.47.110 (talk) 20:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Lead

Bob, what is the purpose of mentioning one kind of cheddar in the lead? [6] SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 01:48, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually it is several kinds of Cheddar - many different brands have the PDO applied. Given that other cheeses may have PDO or PGI applied to the whole production it is worth mentioning that only certain types of Cheddar, which is made worldwide, can have the PDO. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 07:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't follow. The lead discusses Cheddar in general, then suddenly mentions West Country farmhouse Cheddar. That should be something we mention in the English cheeses section, but I'm wondering what the point is of highlighting it in the lead. SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 07:42, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Because the lead should be a standalone summary of the whole article per WP:LEAD. The lead of this article should in fact be expanded to include more of the content, not less. --Simple Bob ^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 07:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I can understand that. But again, my question is: of all the different types of Cheddar around the world, why does the lead mention that one? SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 07:56, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, is it really written "West Country farmhouse Cheddar" with a lower-case f? SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 08:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

No, it isn't. :) SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 08:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Because (AIUI) West Country Farmhouse Cheddar is the only type that has any official designation. The purpose of the PDO designation is to recognise and protect the origins of the product, so it represents the origins. Thryduulf (talk) 09:09, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Is cheddar cheese getting sweeter?

On You and Yours on October 6 2011, it was announced that due to changes in the recipes, cheddar cheese was now getting sweeter. If any one knows about this, it could go in the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 12:16, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Too much of an American slant on the article

For a cheese that originated in England and one of the most famous English Cheeses this article seems to talk far too much about American cheese and american regulations. Why talk about Colby and New York style yet not mention by name varieties like Red Leicester?

The article also doesn't seem to mention flavoured varieties like port or ale flavoured cheddar —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abigsmurf (talk • contribs) 01:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Is Red Leicester considered to be cheddar cheese? I've never seen it described as such whenever I've bought it. 217.34.39.123 12:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Many passages seem to even be regionally slanted. In my part of the U.S. (New England) we don't call any white cheddar cheese "Vermont Cheddar" (we only call cheddar actually made in Vermont by that term), nor do we have "New York style" cheddar (though we do have cheddar from New York state). My feeling is that this article fails to distinguish between labeling used by specific brands (perhaps common in the region of whoever wrote some of this) from actual commonly accepted terminology.--Ericjs (talk) 04:26, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

That's a good point. If this were a dictionary then 'commonly accepted terminology' would be paramount. But it is not, it is an encyclopedia -- so explaining the origin, history, and meaning of the subject is important. The commonly-accepted meaning of 'orange juice' is "something from a carton, watered down from a dehyrated mush of squashed oranges". That would not, however, be a good Wikipedia definition (although it should mention that version). quota (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

yes, this article is far too americanocentric. I shall modify it to make it more universal. There are also cheddar style cheeses of a high quality produced in Australia and New Zealand which get no mention, so why discuss at such length American cheese varieties. Cheddar cheese is a British cheese, any additional cheese information should come under its own subheading such as "American varieties of imitation cheddar, Australian varieties, New Zealand Varieties, Scottish varieties, Welsh varieties" e.t.c. or perhaps a link to a list of cheddar varieties is in order. One way or another Cheddar is an English cheese, and this article focuses far too much on American Cheddar imitations. (also no red Leicester is not Cheddar, it is a "Leicester cheese" made in a region of England where cheeses made even to the cheddar recipe are not officially recognised as Cheddar by the DOP. Just because a cheese is hard and wrapped in cloth does not make it a cheddar. There are many other varieties of hard cheese such as Gouda, Leicester, Lancashire, Parmagiano, Wensleydale, Cantal jeune - entre dieux - and vieux, Asiago and many many more).Shuggyg (talk) 16:17, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

It is still way too American. 4 January 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.110.176 (talk) 11:31, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Too American. In the UK section it didn't explain about different producers or whether or not processed varieties are more popular varieties and which cheese is the most popular ect ect — Preceding unsigned comment added by LGMarshall (talk • contribs) 18:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice touch with those remarks about American cheddar being imitation compared with others. The remarks are crude, ignorant, and typical but they're still funny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.53.221 (talk) 15:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Nutritional information

Could someone add a section on the nutritional value and health effects of Cheddar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.1.157 (talk) 21:20, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

That should be easy if some sources can be found. I'm guessing there won't be one answer though given the number of brands and therefore the differing amounts of fat/protein/calories/etc. --Bob Re-born (talk) 22:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Does cheddar have a PDO or not?

The introduction says that cheddar does not have a PDO, but later in the article I read that it does. As far as I know, the former is correct... --Allan Lewis (talk) 12:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

According to the British Cheese Board "West Country Farmhouse Cheddar" does have DPO. http://www.britishcheese.com/cheddar - but not the word "Cheddar" itself.--62.249.233.80 (talk) 15:35, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Metric System

Please try to put units in metric first, with imperial in brackets. Only use US custom units first when they are an integral part of that subject, e.g. American Football. Most international readers have no idea what a short ton is, even those from the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.142.68.62 (talk) 09:38, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Capital Cheddar?

My case corrections were reverted here by Bob Re-born without explanation. I was trying to make the generic uses of cheddar more consistently lower case, and the proper names more consistently upper case. What's the problem? Dicklyon (talk) 08:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with your edits which make a lot of sense. When we refer to West country Farmhouse Cheddar we are talking about the specific PDO product and it should be uppercase. Generic references to a cheddar typew cheese should be lower case. I reverted Bob Re-born's change. Dabbler (talk) 11:51, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Copyvio/close paraphrasing in Record Cheddars section

I've just added some references to the Record Cheddars section as citation needed tags had been added which made it show up in the Cleanup listing for Wikiproject Somerset. I noticed that several were either copyvios or very close paraphrasing of the sources - could someone reword them?— Rod ^talk 22:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes they were basically cut and paste, I have made an attempt at rewriting the entries. Please review and improve. Dabbler (talk) 01:06, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Biomarkers

The impact of {cheddar} consumption on markers of cardiovascular risk in rats   — C M B J   12:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Rennet/Enzymes

Thistle and other vegetable derived enzymes need to be mentioned in addition to myco/bacterial enzymes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.253.135.34 (talk) 00:24, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for them being used in cheddar manufacture? Richerman (talk) 11:59, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Advertising?

This sentence: "Canadian cheddar cheese soup is a featured dish at the Canada pavilion at Epcot, in Walt Disney World.[27]" does not appear to add any substance to the article and amounts to an ad IMO. Jhall251 (talk) 00:58, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Reference [30] "Natural" is an advertisement.

Why does "tasty cheese" redirect here?

Seems like a POV. What makes cheddar tastier than others?! Equinox (talk) 19:33, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

It appears in Australia/NZ that "tasty" is a version of cheddar, like "sharp", etc. It is a redirect, so maybe bring it up at WP:Redirects for discussion if you want.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 20:03, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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"Bitter" taste inaccuracy

"...sometimes sharp-tasting (i.e., bitter[1])" is a misunderstanding of the linked article. Sharpness is best described as tangy or perhaps umami (umami would need a citation IMO). The study is not saying that chedder cheese tastes bitter. The study says that as cheese ages it's sharpness and it's bitterness can increase. They are separate flavours are caused by separate compounds.Billyoffland (talk) 18:42, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I too was surprised to see it described as bitter. Among the five tastes, sharp is going to be sour and a bit umami. It's not bitter unless it's a poor batch. --Aranae (talk) 01:35, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Mold

Cheddar cheese

This image was removed with the edit summary "Removed image because mold is highly unusual for cheddar cheese. The picture misrepresents what cheddar is." This may be true. I note that the word "mold" or "mould" does not currently appear anywhere in the article apart from: "(in vegetarian or kosher cheeses, bacterial, yeast or mould-derived chymosin is used)". But can cheddar have veins of mold? Is this a feature of its history? Is it gnenerally required not to have mold? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:32, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Annatto is not added to cheddar as a "colouring" and it definitely is not "artificial"

Annatto is a spice. Its scent is described as "slightly peppery with a hint of nutmeg" and flavor as "slightly nutty, sweet and peppery". Americans add Annatto NOT as a coloring, but because it is a flavoring that compliments the natural flavor of cheddar, which is described as nutty. The annatto gives the cheddar a stronger sweet and nutty flavor that Americans prefer. The color of Annatto just happens to turn the cheddar orange. Saying that Annatto is added as a coloring to cheddar is as silly as saying turmeric is added as a yellow coloring to mustard. Further, to call a natural spice an "artificial coloring" is way off base. This article was clearly written by a British person who does not have a clue as to what annatto is or why Americans add annatto to cheddar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.76.30.40 (talk) 22:23, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I have never heard anyone describe cheddar as tasting "nutty". --Jimv1983 (talk) 06:33, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jimv1983 sorry to contradict you but the PDO for Westcountry Farmhouse Cheddar states West Country Farmhouse Cheddar has a NUTTY, full, rounded flavour with a hint of sharpness. And being Somerset born and bred (I was brought up 2 miles from Cheddar) a nutty taste is definitely what I found in good cheddar. Domdeparis (talk) 14:41, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

What do you even mean by nutty? I've never heard anyone describe cheese of any kind as "nutty". I consider "nutty" to mean resembling the flavor of nuts. If that's what you get from cheese, especially cheddar, then something is wrong with that cheese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimv1983 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

'Nutty' is a term used within the cheese and flavouring industry as a way of describing a particular aspect of flavour, i.e., it is used to describe one particular impression one gets upon eating the cheese.

The term is also used within the wine industry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.172.235 (talk) 10:08, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

The annatto article confirms it's a natural alternative to synthetic colorants, but most sources (NPR, Huffpost industry interview, and US Dairy with reference to the NPR article, etc.) seem to subscribe to the notion that it's addition to cheese is a matter of presentation rather than flavor. However, at least one source notes that cheese connoisseurs or individuals with sensitive palates are able to discern annatto's subtle impact on flavor. Either way, considering I came to this article to find out why American cheddar's so often yellow, this feels like an important point to include here or in the manufacturing article. 2600:1700:6A96:60:9C81:22F4:CB1A:1F79 (talk) 18:46, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

confused

I am a little confused by a self-contradiction in the history section. At first, it says that cheddar cheese originated in the village of Cheddar. (The lead says this, too.) Then, it goes on to say that the Romans may have brought the recipe from France, which--if true--means that cheddar cheese didn't originate from Cheddar at all. Both statements are supported by sources, but the second source is a French book that I don't have access to and wouldn't be able to read even if I did have access to it. Not sure how to proceed. EugeneMJ (talk) 16:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Cave aged cheddar

Just as a point of interest the cave ageing doesn't mature the cheese faster as such, the constant 11c in the cave affects the texture rather than the flavour making it creamier. 92.40.204.71 (talk) 18:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

RM for Cheddar

Related to this article, there is a requested move at Talk:Cheddar‎#Requested move 27 July 2022, proposing to move that page to Cheddar (disambiguation) and make Cheddar redirect to this page. Please participate there if interested. Adumbrativus (talk) 08:29, 27 July 2022 (UTC)