Talk:Cash (Chinese coin)

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Why not use the term "superstition"?[edit]

@Midnight-Blue766:, Just curious as you didn't use an edit summary, but why not use the term "superstition"? The definition of a superstition is "A superstition is any belief or practice considered by non-practitioners to be irrational or supernatural, attributed to fate or magic, perceived supernatural influence, or fear of that which is unknown." and the usage in Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) cannot be seen as something supernatural (as it's not necessarily "magical healing") and feng shui, like Traditional Chinese medicine, is a pseudoscience with supernatural elements rather than pure magic thinking. So why not use the term "superstition" which has a broader application than "supernatural beliefs"? Also, the term "superstition" is used plenty of times on Wikipedia, examples include "Superstition in India" "Superstitions in Muslim societies", "Superstition in Korea" Etc. --Donald Trung (talk) 15:41, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again user "Midnight-Blue766", to go into more detail about these edits, the usage of "supernatural beliefs" instead "superstitions" is a much more narrow definition. I have no issue with the usage of "divination" instead of "fortune telling", but reading the article "Divination" the article notes "If a distinction is to be made between divination and fortune-telling, divination has a more formal or ritualistic element and often contains a more social character, usually in a religious context, as seen in traditional African medicine. Fortune-telling, on the other hand, is a more everyday practice for personal purposes. Particular divination methods vary by culture and religion." (Attribution) so the usage of "fortune telling" in this context is more correct in this context as Chinese fortune telling is commonly applied in everyday practices and for social purposes, but as the articles use both the terms "fortune telling" and "divination" either term seems acceptable. Anyhow, my main issue is with the usage of the term "supernatural beliefs" instead of "superstitions", the former has a more narrow definition than the latter. Superstitions include all generally non-religious applications of supernatural thinking / magic thinking, as well as other falsehoods including pseudoscience.

A pseudoscience isn't necessarily a form of supernatural belief, those who believe in pseudoscience will often claim "this isn't supernatural, this is just nature" (as science by definition cannot be outside of nature and pseudosciences often masquerade as sciences), while those who hold supernatural beliefs will explain natural counterarguments away with "it's just magic" (as in nature cannot explain it, but some more devious agents might ascribe their mystical beliefs as being "a part of nature"). Typically, pseudoscientific theories have whole organised set of rules and beliefs that are based in logic (even if this logic is incorrect), for example in Feng Shui it is believed that if a cash coin circulates it will receive more "People qi" (人氣 / 人气 / rénqì, or "Human qi"), this "People qi" isn't a scientific concept and the concept of qi can be seen as a form of magic / the supernatural, but some who believe in qi will claim that it's scientific and that it's just another type of energy that naturally exists in the world. Likewise, cash coins in medicinal teas cannot be seen as "supernatural" either, while there certainly are some magical beliefs involved there is again an internal system of logic. As traditional medicines are often based on observations and use hypotheses based on these observations it can also be argued that they are pseudoscientific based on incorrect data rather than magical beliefs, while there is some scientific truth in that certain metals and minerals are good for the human body (though cash coins cannot logically be medicinal due to their high lead content), the reason why this hypothesis becomes pseudoscience is because it has been disproven and is still advertised by those who believe in it as "scientifically valid". Remember, pseudoscience is an irrational belief because rational scientific investigation has disproven it.

Superstitions include all irrational beliefs that are believed by those who hold it, these can be supernatural in concept but they can also perceive a false nature (pseudoscience). --Donald Trung (talk) 16:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note (TL;DR) that I mean to say that the term "supernatural beliefs" / "magical beliefs" are a more narrow definition, I don't see the use in changing this from supernatural. If it was only a mere cosmetic change then I wouldn't have had an issue with it, nor is this necessarily "respecting the beliefs" of those who have them (remember that those who believe in pseudoscience don't think that their beliefs are rooted in the supernatural). -- — Donald Trung (talk) 17:00, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]