Talk:COVID-19 pandemic in Moldova

WikiProject COVID-19

I've created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe, --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Transdniester

Does this include 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Transnistria? --Error (talk) 23:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Transnistria

MD-wiki-user, instead of edit warring it's better to discuss the issue here. Yes, indeed, Transnistria is internationally recognized as part of Moldova, it is for this very fact that the status of Transnistria should be mentioned. It is the common practice, as I said earlier, in 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Cyprus, Northern Cyprus is mentioned more than once, and it is also a state that has declared independence unilaterally and is only recognized by Turkey. Transnistria's status is completely different from that of other regions and should be specified, you cannot deny the fact that it acts as an independent state from Moldova. Perhaps this could be solved by adding a note or more information to clarify the status of both. Super Ψ Dro 19:46, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Transnistria, as one of the regions of the Republic of Moldova, is already mentioned in the Wikpedia article on 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Moldova, as well as it is reflected, among other regions of the Republic of Moldova, in the dashborad http://gismoldova.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR32zFLohMRQrvsDAzwwEADtnVdk7t6m2WmfFg48Wwd-Nl847NdWGzpEleg#/d274da857ed345efa66e1fbc959b021b. I emphasize that this Wikipedia article has nothing to do with the status of one or another region from Moldova. This article reflects a sad situation which unfortunately is developing in the Republic of Moldova due to the spread of the novel coronavirus, and it is indeed not appropriate to exploit this subject in order to clarify political issues or to promote directly or indirectly an internationally unrecognised entity. Thank you for understanding and good health! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MD-wiki-user (talk • contribs) 20:31, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Transnistria's status has to be noted in more detail, as its government is dealing with this pandemic independently from the Moldovan one. In fact, I would say that the information on Transnistria on that website that you linked is based on official information from the Transnistrian Government, since info about the region on the Moldovan website is usually updated several hours later than the Transnistrian page. Obviously there is no need to make politics a central topic of the article, but the point is that politics are affecting the way in which both are dealing with the virus. Also, I don't understand why you have removed certain information. The one in the lead for example specifically says that Transnistria is officially part of Moldova, and that on March 21 (on the timeline) only says that the first two cases in Transnistria have been confirmed. I honestly believe that your edits are based on nationalism rather than neutrality. Also, you are getting it wrong. I do not support Transnistria or its government or anything, its totally the opposite, I support Moldova, my only intention is to expand this article and mention everything notable enough. Again, I think this disagreement could be resolved by a change in the redaction, perhaps by rewriting it or by adding a note explaining the Moldovan-Transnistrian conflict somehow. Super Ψ Dro 21:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@Super Dromaeosaurus: You are mentioning in your last comment that you do not support Transnistria or its ”government” or anything, its totally the opposite, you support Moldova, and your only intention is to expand this article and mention everything notable enough. I would like to think that this is really what drives you editing this article, but analysing all your contributions to this article makes me questioning the true purpose of your edits. You also started this conversation by mentioning that instead of edit warring it's better to discuss the issue here. Ok, I agree on this, but let's look also on facts, in a very transparent way. So, as any person can see from the history of this article, you made a total of 9 edits on the article:

- your edit No. 1 (25 March 2020): you made 2 completions, the first stating that ”It includes all cases in the internationally unrecognized republic of Transnistria” - which provides a link not to the Wikipedia article about transnistrian region of Moldova, which is a part of Moldova that you say you support (and on this article we can see the flag of Moldova), but the link is provided to the Wikipedia article which has a lot of information about another entity, an internationally unrecognised one, with another flag etc. Your second completion was to add a link to 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Transnistria, an article which is using specific terminology related to an internationally unrecognised entity, like ″republic of Transnistria″, ″Government of Transnistria″, ″Ministry of Internal Affairs of Transnistria″, and here you link again the word Transnistria not to the Wikipedia article about a region of the Republic of Moldova, but to the article I just mentioned, related to an internationally unrecognised entity.

- your edit No. 2 (30 March 2020): you added another link to the mentioned article about 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Transnistria; you completed with the text ″Data from the Moldovan Government includes confirmed cases in the unrecognized republic of Transnistria (18 as far), which is internationally known as de jure part of Moldova.″, again using the link to the internationally unrecognised entity; you replaced the text ″the Transnistrian region of the Republic of Moldova″ with the text ″Transnistria″ (with the already mentioned link to the internationally unrecognised entity); you added information about the first two positive cases in the transnistrian region of Moldova (which is indeed useful information), but you also used the term Transnistria, which might be interpreted as the internationally unrecognised entity, while using an expression like transnistrian region of Moldova would be understood in only one way; and you added again the link to the 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Transnistria, described above.

- your edit No. 3 (31 March 2020, 11:53): you updated the information on the confirmed cases in the internationally unrecognised entity of Transnistria, while providing a link to an internationally unrecognised structure (minzdrav.gospmr.org), even if the authorities of the Republic of Moldova are providing regularly information about cases in all regions of Moldova, including the transnistrian region.

- your edit No. 4 (31 March 2020, 18:33): you restored the information about Transnistria removed by me.

- your edit No. 5 (31 March 2020, 18:55): you undid my revision 948379848, again on the subject of Transnistria.

- your edit No. 6 (2 April 2020, 07:28): you restored again the information which I removed.

- your edit No. 7 (2 April 2020, 07:73): you replaced the text ″Transnistrian region of the Republic of Moldova″ with the text ″Transnistrian region″, thus excluding the connection to the Republic of Moldova; you updated the table regarding the evolution by region (which I indeed appreciate, but this was your only edit not related to the internationally unrecognised entity).

- your edit No. 8 (3 April 2020, 13:12): you restored again the previously adjusted/deleted text about Transnistria, in the same way as you did before (mentioned above); you updated the table regarding the evolution by region, but this time you modified only the data about the transnistrian region.

- your edit No. 9 (3 April 2020, 15:06): you undid my revision 948872839, again on the subject of Transnistria (in the same way as you did before).

So, as anyone can clearly see from your edits reflected above, all of your edits (with one mentioned exception) are made by adding or restoring information which is only connected to Transnistria, presented not as Transnistria autonomous territorial unit (a component part of Moldova), but as Transnistria - an internationally unrecognised entity on the left bank of Nistru river which do not consider itself as part of Moldova, while you know very good that is article is about a particular epidemiological situation in the Republic of Moldova, which is an internationally recognised independent, sovereign, unitary and indivisible country. Therefore, this article is not about an epidemic in an internationally unrecognised entity (for this reason, everybody is free to create other Wikipedia articles, but in an article about the Republic of Moldova readers logically would expect to find information about the Republic of Moldova, not about another entity). Thus, I think that your edits do not seem to be in line with your declared support to the Republic of Moldova (which is as an internationally recognised unitary country, ruled by its Constitution and the legal and administrative system), but your edits are actually promoting information referring to another entity, an internationally unrecognised one, which undertook actions to separate from Moldova.

Also, let me provide you some answers to your statements form your last comment; I hope this will help to clarify some issues:

- you mentioned that ″Transnistria's status has to be noted in more detail, as its government is dealing with this pandemic independently from the Moldovan one″. My answer: first, the article ″2020 coronavirus pandemic in Moldova″ is not the place where the status of an internationally unrecognised region has to be clarified in detail; for this, there are already other Wikipedia articles dedicated to the topic of Transnistria; and second: if you really support Moldova as an independent and unitary country, than why you are using the word ″government″ in connection to the internationally unrecognised entity? The Republic of Moldova has only one Government, in Chisinau. By using, in relation to internationally unrecognised entities, words and expressions that are attributes of only official and recognised entities, someone is indirectly recognising these internationally unrecognised entities.

- you mentioned that ″In fact, I would say that the information on Transnistria on that website that you linked is based on official information from the Transnistrian Government, since info about the region on the Moldovan website is usually updated several hours later than the Transnistrian page″. My answer: the information about cases registered on the entire territory of the Republic of Moldova (including the transnistrian region) is presented daily by the authorities of the Republic of Moldova, so please note that they are the official source of data. Regarding the data on the dedicated dashboard, you can see on the top left corner a clear indication to the Ministry of Health, Labour and Social Protection of the Republic of Moldova. Also, in the bottom of the platform, you can see that this platform was developed on the request of the Moldovan ministry of health. And about the ″official information″ and the so called Transnistrian Government (expressions you are using), I will not comment again, I have just explained above about the use of terminology.

- you mentioned that ″I don't understand why you have removed certain information″. My answer: in the very beginning of the article, I have removed the text ″Data from the Moldovan Government includes confirmed cases in the unrecognized republic of Transnistria (35 as far), which is internationally known as de jure part of Moldova.″, because you mentioned that data includes cases in Transnistria, without mentioning that this data also includes cases in other regions (municipalities, districts, and the autonomous territorial unit Gagauzia). It is like saying that a map of the world includes the representation of Europe, but you say nothing about Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, North America and South America. In this context, why did you choose to mention only Transnistria, but not, for example, Chisinau Municipality or Stefan Voda District, where there are more registered cases than in the transnistrian region? What criteria have you applied when you decided to mention only one region, and not the others? This is what I call discrimination, which is not in line with the neutrality approach. And there is one more thing, why mentioning that data includes cases in only a particular region of Moldova, when there is a table in the article with data about cases in all affected regions? Also, I shall mention that the data is presented by the authorities or the representatives of authorities of the Republic of Moldova, and not only by the Government (as you mentioned). I emphasize that the terms ″Government″, ″Prime-minister″, ″Minister of Health, Labour and Social Protection of the Republic of Moldova″ etc. are not same thing and cannot be all considered as the Government, according to the legislation of the Republic of Moldova. We shall keep in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia where special attention must be paid to the exact and correct use of terminology, because many people rely on Wikipedia, so the editors shall be very responsible. For these reasons, I decided to better delete the text. However, last time I have proposed a text as a compromise, stating that ″in this article, data on cases refers to the entire territory of the Republic of Moldova, including municipalities, districts, the autonomous territorial unit Gagauzia and the territorial administrative units from the left part of Nistru river (the transnistrian region)″ as maybe there are readers that are interested to know from the very beginning of the article if this information on Moldova includes or not the data on transnistrian region (which indeed is currently not controlled by the constitutional authorities of the Republic of Moldova) - and by providing such an explanatory note, these readers will know that yes, instead the article contains data regarding all the Moldovan territory, including the left bank of the Nistru river.

- you also wonder why I have deleted the text stating that ″on March 21 (on the timeline) [...] the first two cases in Transnistria have been confirmed″. I would not delete this if you would also mentioned when the first case were confirmed in Chisinau, Stefan Voda, Soroca, Hincesti and other affected regions. Again, why you are providing details only about one particular region and mention nothing about all the other regions? This is not a equidistant approach.

In conclusion: as you mentioned, your ″only intention is to expand this article and mention everything notable enough″. I think it would be really notable to expand this article with information about the cases in all affected regions, to update the timeline, to update statistics and to add new ones, to update charts and maybe to add new ones, to reflect the decisions and the measures taken by the authorities of the Republic of Moldova, to reflect the impact, etc., instead of adding or restoring most of the time the information only about Transnistria (regarded not as a component of the Republic Moldova, but as an internationally unrecognised entity). I wish you the best!--MD-wiki-user (talk) 23:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

MD-wiki-user:

-First edit: The reason why I didn't link the Transnistrian autonomous territorial unit is because the one dealing with the pandemic in the territory is the Transnistrian Government. And yes, Transnistria has its own instutitions, even if they are not recognized internationally. So this "terminology" as you say is correct.

-Second edit: As I just said above, the ones dealing with the pandemic are the Transnistrian institutions, not the Moldovan ones. The "Transnistria autonomous territorial unit" has no control of any land. So yes, it was my intention to link and mention the unrecognized state.

-Edit 3: I admit that the link to the Transnistrian Ministry of Health was not completely neccesary, but it is not less useful than the Moldovan pages.

-Edit 4-6, 8-9: Nothing to say.

-Edit 7: As I said, my intention was not to talk about the Transnistrian autonomous territorial unit.

Yes, Moldova is an internationally independent, sovereign, unitary and indivisible country, but the truth is that Transnistria self-governs itself (well, "maybe" they receive some "external support"). However, since its still legally Moldovan territory, the situation in Transnistria should be treated in the article. Anyways, I've changed the redaction and now Transnistria is presented as "the Transnistria autonomous territorial unit occupied by the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic". I hope that makes it. Super Ψ Dro 19:32, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

@Super Dromaeosaurus: Mult stimate/mult stimată, astăzi am descoperit pagina dvs. de utilizator din Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Super_Dromaeosaurus. O să fiu sincer cu dvs. și o să vă mărturisesc că nu mă așteptam ca o persoană care este român (din Valahia), care se identifică naționalist (deși mi-ați imputat mie această poziție), care se declară împotriva comunismului și a imperialismului, să aibă abordarea de care ați dat dovadă în chestiunea transnistreană. Desigur, fiecare om are dreptul la opinie și eu respect acest drept fundamental, dar oricum, am rămas surprins. O să revin la subiectul de mai sus. Apropo, v-am scris în română având în vedere că dezbaterea dată se pare că ne privește doar pe noi. Sănătate!--MD-wiki-user (talk) 20:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Atunci această problemă a fost rezolvat, nu? Bine că avem ajuns la un consens! Și scuzați cunoștințele mele în limba română, nu stiu atât cât aș vrea (dar vreau să învăț!). La revedere și sănătate și pentru tine! Super Ψ Dro 22:43, 7 April 2020 (UTC)