Talk:Burning Sun scandal

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Roy Kim's involvement[edit]

Today it was revealed that Roy Kim was also involved in the Seungri/Jung Joonyoung chat rooms by the Korean Huffington Post.

https://www.huffingtonpost.kr/entry/roy-kim_kr_5ca32670e4b03e061e39b88d?g4i --94.216.9.121 (talk) 11:00, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Split[edit]

Propose to split article in sections as page is 111kbytes in size which is far too big. Furthermore, more information will be added in time to come as investigations are still ongoing. 112.199.129.242 (talk) 12:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest to split the development/timeline section out into its own page. 112.199.129.242 (talk) 12:18, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's too soon to split, the Section "Criminal cases, allegations, bookings and arrests" is recommended to be summarized and trimmed when more of the arrests are made; and the Introduction can be trimmed and summarized more, with final details. Taking out the Section "Development" leaves very little to the page. And, I don't think it would fit well into a timeline, the narrative style is better, as many of the points are tied together by multiple dates, instead of one. The readable portion is not too large for a subject like this, as a lot of space is being taken up by the Reference section. I suggest we give it some time.--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 12:59, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I looked into the details: the article's Page Statistics [1] show it has 8,761 words, which on the Article size - readability to be more the size of an article that is 50 kB, "A page of about 30 kB to 50 kB of readable prose, which roughly corresponds to 4,000 to 10,000 words....." As I said, I believe the lengthy Reference section is making the page look particularly long. (So many citations were necessary as the informaton has been teased out, in bits and pieces, and sometimes with translations varying.) In addition, it has 38 sections, which while helping the reader to easily access sections from the Contents, is also causing the page to look longer than it is. Wikipedia Article Size says "no need for haste" to split...."Sometimes an article simply needs to be big to give the subject adequate coverage."--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 14:32, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest to give it some time before deciding to split and which one to split. Meloras (talk) 05:08, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

May I also suggest that the opening (the summary at the top of the page, I forget the correct name) be shortened, or re-written entirely? Holy shit is it ever LONG! 5 paragraphs of info that could be condensed into 2 or 3, and with a much smaller word count. Does it really have to be as long as World War I or am I in the wrong here and does the damn intro really need a long winded 4 page essay? Because you should be able to find stuff like the star's quotes IN their corresponding sections when you're looking through the article. -NowIsntItTime^{(chats)(doings)} 12:15, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the Intro. was lengthy. It was mostly the original creation of the page [2] as a stub, when the current events were just unfolding, and should have been implemented into the body. So, I have now moved some Intro. information to the body of the article, including the chatroom quote. It still needs further rewriting and synopsis, which is pending the judicial conclusion, arrests and adjudication, which are forthcoming.--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 23:07, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now: You can, however, condense a lot of the article to more concise points. The scandal, although big, isn't big enough to warrant several articles yet, wait until it gets big enough like the Park Geun-hye and Choi Soon-sil scandal. Tibbydibby (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At this time, in addition to shortening the Intro., the lengthy Section "Criminal cases, allegations, bookings and arrests" has been summarized and renamed as "Investigation summary" (still needs removal of some redundant citations), and sub-headings for the last two sections were removed. All have made the page a little more concise and tidy. As this scandal is still current, more changes and summaries are anticipated.--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 07:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since it's clear there's no consensus to split at this time, I've gone ahead and removed the tag. Which does not mean the discussion needs to be concluded. El_C 02:27, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Seungri[edit]

Can somebody fix the whole Seungri thing? This article is saying a lot of stuff about him which is false and is scapegoating him Taelephantoes (talk) 21:54, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Burning Sun[edit]

Burning Sun (Gate) is an umbrella term used to define a collection of events involving K-pop idols, business owners, victims and police officials. It involves sex crimes (molka) and allegations of money laundering, prostitution, gambling, drugs, intimidation and coercion.

(Thoughts!?) Yahdalah (talk) 18:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about the exclamation point. Not intended. Yahdalah (talk) 18:21, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation results[edit]

Are there any plans to update this page with the outcome of the Burning Sun case? I noticed that this page includes a lot of detailed information relating to the background of the case and other seemingly unrelated cases. However, (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't see any information regarding the result of the main investigation related to the alleged sexual violence in the club itself. Considering the results of that investigation have been released since 2019, I find it strange that so many details of the allegations are included, yet the actual result is left out. I assume this may have just been an oversight so I will just like to bring it to your attention. Link to police statement about investigation results: https://m.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20190710100151001?input=1195m

I also noticed that regarding the club incidents in particular, the verdicts of the former CEOS and the police officer have been included but for some reason, Kim Sang-Kyo's verdict in the sexual harassment and defamation case brought against him has been left out. Note that he was found guilty for sexually harassing one woman, defamation and obstruction of business, which are all related to Burning Sun. I will link it here: https://n.news.naver.com/article/008/0004815345?sid=102

I understand that these are Korean articles so perhaps that may be a factor as to why these details were overlooked. So just wanted to bring these to the editors' attention. Thank you for your consideration. Lemon Orange28 (talk) 05:54, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At Burning Sun scandal#Other investigations you will find the first article you reference and the results of the allegations in the WP page text: "On July 9, KNPA Commissioner Min responded that the allegations of sexual abuse and drug use in the VIP rooms, per the petition, were not confirmed. He added, "I will humbly accept the public's criticism that the results of the investigation are insufficient in relation to the Burning Sun case".[141][142]" The citation number 141 is the Yonhap news article you list above.

If you overlooked this section, it is understandable as the proceedings were intricate and extended over a long period of time. Perhaps this portion of the results of the investigation should be included in the Introductory section of this WP page?

But thank you for the citation for the Kim Sang-kyo trial results from November 2022, that was helpful. I have incorporated them in at Burning Sun scandal#2021 – 2022: Final trials with the heading "First reporter Kim Sang-kyo sentenced".--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 05:58, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for adding the part about Kim Sang-Kyo! Yes, it will be helpful if the part about the investigation results for Burning Sun can be included in the intro, I imagine not many people will read to the end to see it. Lemon Orange28 (talk) 04:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]