Talk:Bulgarians/Archive 6

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Number of Bulgars/ relations to Cumans

Some sources indeed say that Bulgars were only a ruling elite, other sources say that they were quite numerous. See here :

"...Onogur Bulgarians are found in large numbers... "[1]

or here: "Asperuch’s Bulgars were a numerous race." - page 26, [2]

Hence any attempt to put particular numbers on the article are only speculations and should be avoided.

Cumans were only hired by the Bulgarians during the Second Bulgarians Empire but eventually they settled on the Hungarian plain - see the article Cumans: Settlement on the Hungarian plain. Just because there were some marriages between Bulgarian aristocracy and Cumans this doesn't mean that Cumans participated into the formation of Bulgarian ethnogenesis. By such logic, just because some kings of England married French princesses, can we infer that English people are French? --185.71.1.106 (talk) 12:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

About the Cumans' question. Bulgarian researcher Assoc. Prof. Aleksandar Nikolov PhD in Sofia University, claims on p. 10 in his study Cumans and Vlachs in the second Bulgarian empire as follows: "Thus, in my opinion, the Second Bulgarian state represents a mixed model of how nomadic settlers could be integrated and assimilated into a sedentary society. As in Hungary, the Cumans also settled "en masse" in the territories where the Second Bulgarian state was created. They formed not only a significant, but a leading part of the aristocratic military elite, compensating in this way for the lack of a fully developed local military class. Unlike Hungary, there was no pressure or special legislation, which forced the newcomers to take on Bulgarian identity. After their Christianization they merged with the local elite without any difficulties." Also, there is no doubt, about these events (Cumans' impact in Bulgarian ethnogenesis) in Bulgarian historiography. 88.203.200.74 (talk) 08:48, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
As per d-r Gantcho Tsenov (Berlin), neither the Cumans or the Bugarians together were a "kipchak" (so called - "tirckic") tribes and both used a East-European language - the old Chirch-Slavonic, or the Old - Bulgarian one. The same is valid per the Avars. --188.79.101.31 (talk) 12:34, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Byzantium: The Imperial Centuries, AD 610-1071, Romilly James Heald Jenkins, page 45, https://books.google.bg/books?id=O5JqH_NXQBsC&pg=PA45&dq=onogur+bulgars&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=onogur%20bulgars&f=false
  2. ^ A history of the First Bulgarian Empire, Steven Runciman, http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/sr/sr_1_2.htm

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Gardening?

Bulgarians were known for their gardening methods/culture in the late 19thand early 20th century, even as far as Australia Why is there nothing about this in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.183.25.99 (talk) 07:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Who are the Onogurs?

Please explain me, who are the Onogurs. I mean I know who they are but tell me what kind of people makes Onogurs. I ask this because this: "Then he records 13 tribes, the wngwr (Onogur), wgr (Oğur), sbr (Sabir), bwrgr (Burğa, i.e. Bulgar), kwrtrgr (Kutriğurs), br (probably Vars, also known as the Avars), ksr (Kasr; possibly Akatziri), srwrgwr (Saragur), dyrmr (unknown), b'grsyq (Bagrasir, i.e. Barsil), kwls (unknown), bdl (probably Abdali), and ftlyt (Hephthalite)." I always read that Onogurs are Bulgars. But The Bulgars are listed as a different entity. Than I read it Bulgars are a mixed origin. What are the elements of that mix, if they are not ogurs, not onogurs, not sabirs, not kuturgurs, not avars, not kazars, not akatzirs, not saragurs, not barsils, not heftalites? Who else is left on the steppe, who could be the Onogurs or f.e. Bulgars? Finno-ugrians? Slavs? Alans? (I think they are the heftalites). So please tell me, which people make the Onogurs, who are not on the list above. 178.48.177.1 (talk) 09:02, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

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