Talk:Brenner Pass

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Map and history development needed[edit]

I suggest that a map be added to this page, or a link be added to a map, so that the reader can see the exact location.

The Brenner Pass is important for the passage of armies and knowledge. The dates for these events would be useful. (Personal: I have been through the Brenner Pass, and looking down on the foot trail far below the railroad, thought that this is how great books were carried in backpacks to Central Europe in the Middle Ages.)68.81.151.62 (talk) 03:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Some assertions[edit]

Various Users and anonymous IPs have challenged or deleted text:

  • the name of the pass appears for the first time in Middle Ages - the Roman road lead over the reschen pass A cited first user for the name would be an addition: text says that the Brennii are commemorated, which is undeniable. A reference to the Resia Pass has been added, with some references. Any editor willing to tie statements to published sources rather than make deletions and counter-assertions, would improve this article better than I can. --Wetman (talk) 17:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are different theories about the origin of the name Brenner. Especially in old literature connections to the tribe of the Brennii or to Brennus are suggested.
Nowadays, the usual etymology, held by South Tyrolean historians and really verifiable, is more prosaic: The farm of a certain Prennerius appears in documents for the first time in 1288. A farm of a certain Chunradus Prenner de Mittenwalde is mentioned in 1299 (pdf from the website of the Wipptal district, German language). And the name Prenner is traced back to the archaic German verb prennen (burn), so a Prenner is supposed to be somebody who cleared and burned wood. Apart from the fact that I find it quite curious to suggest that the name of an antic tribe survived until the 13th century without being mentioned in any documents since antiquity, I have to agree with you. I have to bring reliable sources, but be assured that I will work on it :-)
Additionally I have to say carefully that I don't think that a book from 1912 can be characterised as le dernier cri of scientific studies to this area (I mean the book that suggests an important Roman street over the Brenner). --Mai-Sachme (talk) 23:14, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As for Brennii and so on, I will look for sources tomorrow; but for the total nonsense that Verona or Venice ever had the pass, I can refute these claims now:
  • the Brenner Pass was never part of Verona; the March of Verona created around 950 AD extended to the cities of Merano and Bolzano, the first 80km South of the Brenner the other 50km to the South of the Brenner.
  • the Brenner Pass and the valley to the South and North were part of the Duchy of Bavaria since at least 788 AD
  • in 1027 the Holy Roman Emperor Conrad II enfeoffed the Vinschgau, the county of Bozen and the county of Trento to the Bishopric of Trent and the Eisacktal and Inn valley to the Bishopric of Brixen and thus the Brenner was now in the center of the Bishopric of Brixen
  • in 1178 when supposedly Venice got control of the pass from Verona, the pass was in the hand of Bishopric of Brixen and Venice and Verona were allies in the Lombard League
  • the only battle in Vigasio was in 1164 between the Lega Veronese (Veronian League) and Emperor Barbarossa - both - Verona and Venezia - were members of the League and thus allies [1]
  • to reference this totally wrong sentence with a line about silver and gold from a book about capitalism in the 15th-18th century is an extreme poor showing of referencing.
I removed the sentence again as it is fabricated with 0 historical accuracy. --noclador (talk) 23:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As I am at it: Also the part about the Roman road is totally erroneous:
* the 1st Roman road the Via Claudia Augusta went over the Resia Pass - the Brenner Pass road was constructed 200 years later
* Oenipons is not the city of Innsbruck - Veldidena was the Roman settlement in the area and there was a Oeni Pons = a bridge over Oeni
* no Roman road went through the Inn valley (east of Innsbruck that is) - going down there to Kufstein leads away from Augsburg.
* for details see Ofifical Via Claudia Augusta HP and History of Veldidena (German). --noclador (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Picture[edit]

Why is there a picture of Europabruecke, a bridge that has very little to do with the pass, and not a picture of the actual Brennerpass?--Gspinoza (talk) 12:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the picture. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 08:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing, contradictory language[edit]

In History-> Austrian Empire, before-last sentence, shouldn't it be "these areas were lost TO Italy, following its defeat..." not "these areas were lost BY Italy, following its defeat..." Totally opposite meaning, and mplies Italy (or it's predecessor states) lost the wars in question, when actually Austria lost the wars in question. It made me question my knowledge of European history. The areas were given TO Italy after Italy won independence for the Italian-speaking regions that used to be in Austria-Hungary, right? 217.39.9.226 (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to draw our attention to the confusing text. I corrected the error. Regards, Bede735 (talk) 23:20, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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