Talk:Beyond Good & Evil (video game)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Merging

Is there an article for all versions or just both? Either way I'm for the merger (especially if we can merge all versions) since in essence, the game is the same on every platform Tigeriz

Either it should be merged or the Xbox entry should be heavily modified as it doesn't fit the NPOV policy at all. I'm all for it. Tigermave 00:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Tigermave
I went ahead and redirected it. There was nothing salvagable. Thunderbrand 00:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Good call. Tigermave 01:15, 1 February 2006 (UTC)Tigermave

Fan fiction removed

The below, posted by user:Splinter90, looks like fan fiction to me. It is removed from the article proper. -- Jordi·✆ 18:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

After Pey'j has transformed into a DomZ, Jade must make a terrible decision: kill her best friend or allow Pey'j to destroy Hyllis. In the end Jade chooses to kill Pey'j for the greater good and after this she leaves the planet for a spiritual retreat.
Years later when she returns from the Medusa Galaxy she is terrified to see what Hyllis has become. A few months after Jade's departure, a meteorite hit the planet and nearly destroyed the entire planet. The Factory, the Slaughterhouse and large parts of the city dissapeared into the sea. The IRIS-network declared themselfs as Hyllis' last hope. With Hyllis under the ruling of the IRIS-network they built a new city above the ruins of the old one. The Lighthouse was demolished and was now shelter for those who weren't allowed to enter New Hyllis. The skyline of New Hyllis was dominated by the IRIS-network building. The building was visible from every place in the city and belonged to the most important people in the city: the IRIS-network. the Factory now functioned as the network's personal research facility. Here, scientist of the IRIS-network looked for a way to improve the planetary defense systems.
When Jade arrives at New Hyllis, she is taken for an enemy and cast to the old Lighthouse, there she learns the horrible truth about what happened to her beloved planet. Now Jade must fight her way through New Hyllis to once again uncover the truth behind the IRIS-network and ultimately confront them.
But what Jade doesn't know is that the meteorite contained DomZ essence, and her presence has activated them...

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2005/12/top-20-games-that-nobody-played-but.html

Good going to the moron who put "best game that nobody played". Reword that to something less idiotic.

Trivia

Removed the line "BG&E is like kya dark lineage in many ways, for one they both have female protaganists and two they both didn't have good sales.", due to its fairly broad categories for comparison. Many games also have female protagonists and/or poor sales, Daikatana and several of the Tomb Raider series for instance, yet they're not referenced. If you're going to compare two texts, at least use appropriate issues for comparison. I haven't played either game, but I suspect that the terms of comparison are the combination of thematic style, graphics, and gameplay - perhaps someone who has played both could add a proper entry. Nasajin 03:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


This link keeps getting removed which shouldn't happen

okay i am a member of this forum ---removed spam link--- and i put the link for it in external links becuase it has to do with BG&E but someone keeps getting rid of it saying it's spam and that it has nothing to do with BG&E but this is not true at all the forum is atleast a quarter of BG&E, can someone tell me that it does have BG&E and has no need to be removed or atleast a really really good reason why not.

-- It's a discussion board. It has no factual or otherwise useful content other than discussions on this game, and even then as you say it's "only a quarter" to do with the game. Linking to it is therefore essentially advertising it's existence. You are not adding anything to the article by providing this link; if people want to view discussion forums on this game there are a lot more out there with far larger user bases to choose from, including the official ones, and all are free accessible via a search engine. Linking to an official forum would likely be acceptable of course. It is from this that is conclusive that your link is spam and should not be on this page.


Plus, the majority of that site is devoted to a multitude of franchises that have nothing to do with BG&E. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the person who linked to that site cared more about advertising than improving the quality of this article.Theodorel 21:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Soundtrack

I've been searching all around the web for the two "rock" tracks from this game (you know: the only tracks with lyrics, the tracks that play when installing the game, the tracks that play when racing). Musicbrainz has an ASIN for Amazon, but Amazon doesn't recognize it, and I can't even tell what the title of the two songs are from Musicbrainz, the credits, or the package. Heck, I'd be happy with just the credits for those two tracks at this point (I used to want a transcript and translation of the non-English lyrics, but that was over a year ago). I also have gotten no response from my email to Ubisoft. Both songs have a message, but that message is easy to miss when 1)it's in a language I don't understand, and 2)I'm trying to not get creamed by various game elements. If anyone has a source, put it below or let me know (also, if anyone has had a better response from Ubisoft, let me know and I'll send them another email). Durty Willy 04:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe the songs you're referring to are "Akuda House Propaganda" (which plays during installation IIRC) and "Slaughterhouse Scramble". Hope that helps! --Film11 17:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Awesome Film11, that's more than UbiSoft was able to tell me! I suppose it's not suprising, since the soundtrack wasn't commonly available to begin with, and now it's vanished even from eBay. Maybe I need to send a letter, in French, to Christophe Heral (the composer of the soundtrack-at-large) just asking him for the lyrics. Anyone else have any ideas?--Durty Willy 16:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure this is legal as long as you legally own the game...you could extract the audio files from the sally.bf file and play them through your favourite media player. There is a program that extracts stuff from the files somewhere, but I've forgotten the location. Green451 17:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
UbiSoft released some mp3s for free on a website, though that site became pay/subscription based or something, but the files are mirrored here. -Anonymous 19:23, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added a website in the external links section (www.stormeffect.com) that has the full CD audio extraction in a .rar format as well as an additional song. 24.91.196.107 04:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Priority debate

I would argue that Beyond Good & Evil deserves better than a "low" priority in the cvg project, as it was the first game to utilize the very powerful Jade engine. Being a relatively unknown game, I wouldn't want to bump it up too far on the scale, but I think that in terms of what it's contributed to the gaming world it should probably get upped a notch. Although, someone who's a bit more literate on the subject than I am should probably add a good section on the Jade engine first. 24.220.78.243 18:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, that was me, sorry. Kitarra 18:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Beyond good and evil userbox!

Made it myself.

This user is a fan of Beyond Good & Evil.

{{User:Hotspot/userbox/Beyondgood&evil}} hotspot

Nice! --MrStalker 22:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!-hotspot
I took the liberty of doing my own version:

B This user is a fan of Beyond Good & Evil. G&E


{{User:MrStalker/userboxes/Beyond Good & Evil}}
MrStalker 10:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Another one:

This user wants Beyond Good & Evil 2 very badly. Je t'en prie Ubisoft!


{{User:MrStalker/userboxes/Beyond Good & Evil sequel}}
MrStalker 11:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

...and another one:

A This user supports the Alpha Section.
Join now! Protect Hillys! 		A


{{User:MrStalker/userboxes/The Alpha Section}}
MrStalker 17:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

...and one for the IRIS-fans:

IR This user supports the IRIS Network.
Join the rebellion! 		IS


{{User:MrStalker/userboxes/The IRIS Network}}
MrStalker 16:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Reverted (wtf?)

I came to this page to find it entirely in a foreign language, and with no pictures. So yeah, reverted it.

Wtf no shit... --MrStalker 04:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Peer-review

I have nominated this article for peer review by WikiProject Video games here. --MrStalker 10:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Developer

The game's credits make no mention of Montpellier, France so far as I can tell, but they do mention Ubisoft Milan. Are we sure that it was developed in Montpellier and not Milan? -IndigoAK200 15:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The Montpellier studio seems to be Ancel's "home studio", seeing as all of his other games were developed there. If it was developed somewhere else, I would be highly surprised. It is possible that some developers from the Milan studio were sent to Montpellier to help out (it's not unheard of within Ubi) or that Milan helped out with some secondary function. Which version of the game are you playing? Maybe Milan developed a port of the game? Just some thoughts. Green451 03:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
It turns out that Ubisoft Milan was indeed responsible for the Xbox and PC ports of the game, according to this resume and this one. The second one doesn't mention a PC version, but that's probably just an error, or it could be that they were developed as one version (Xbox and Windows share many systems). Also, check out this developer bio, which mentions the conversion. While that does not mention the PC version, the in-game credits credit this man as one of the "PC developers", meaning that unless he went to Montpellier just to work on the PC version, he probably worked from the Milan studio. Green451 00:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Social commentary

I removed the "Social commentary" section. It has been tagged Original Research / Unattributed Statements for two weeks, but no sources were added. Besides, the contents were hardly noteworthy, and looking through the history of the page, I found it had attracted a couple of crank theories earlier. — 213.47.127.75 22:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The 'content' is also ridiculous, wrong, and completely self-indulgant tripe. It should have been removed from day 1.66.175.212.92 04:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

TMI

The plot secion has far too much detail. Much of it is unexplained and irrelevant to the plot summary that belongs in an encyclopedia article.

"She travels to the factory first where she finds signs of green goo on the floor. Later, Jade finds Double H, an IRIS reporter sent to the factory earlier, whom she rescues from a DomZ torture device in the Factory and from being taken over by a DomZ spore. She tells Double H to break through the sealed grate. Double H crashes through the grate with his head and falls down unhurt."

Why do we care about the goo? What sealed grate?

This entire section should read: "She travels to the factory first. There, Jade finds Double H, an IRIS reporter sent to the factory earlier, whom she rescues from torture and enslavement by the DomZ. Double H helps to break down a barriers for Jade."

To a player of the game, it makes perfect sense in its current form, but to a browser of wikipedia, the plot section is merely filled with unimportant details and run-on sentences. --GreenMage 21:50, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"Original" language clue

It is unclear what the "original" language of the game is, although it is most likely that it would be French, given that the game was written and designed by French designers in France. This is one of the few games available on the market that gives practically no clues as to the native language, as everything is localized, including signs.

It appears, at least in the PC version, that the shapes the characters' mouths make while speaking during cutscenes follow English pronunciation no matter what language is currently selected. Can anyone else confirm this?

No idea, but I was wondering myself: if the Polish version is merely subtitled, not dubbed, then it means the spoken text is in some other language. That, I'm guessing, is the "original" language. -- Vystrix Nexoth 01:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

In the X-box version also, I can say that the mouth movement looks undeniable english at some points, and half english at others (the lip syncing is sometimes really off, so it's hard to follow). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.159.134 (talk) 21:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Beyond Good And Evil

I really think Beyond Good and Evil and IRIS Network should merge,due to the fact they're both related and IRIS Network is a Stub Article. Intellegent9876522 (talk) 12:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Sequel

Apparently, Ancel gave an interview to the French gaming site JeuxVideo confirming that the sequel is in preproduction. Here's an English translation. Just gotta wait for some non-blog English-language sources to confirm the news and it can be added to the article... Or for the upcoming UbiDays. --Koveras ☭ 20:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Series Developement Section

Time to fix it up. Most of it is in the present tense, such as "so far none of these rumours have been confirmed". Since the rumours have now most assuredly been confirmed and considering the very next paragraph gives details of such confirmations, the section needs editing. I never played the game so I believe it's not up to me to edit :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.97.60 (talk) 09:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Trilogy

Ubisoft have officialy announced a sequel, and that this game will form part of a trilogy.—Preceding unsigned comment added by StephenCrowley (talk • contribs)

Yeeeeessssss. I will buy it - no doubt. Then maybe we can understand that cliff hanger ending. Hopefully, there will be more Segundo, everyone's favorite Spanish-accented talking hologram. :) -Hyad 29 June 2005 07:32 (UTC) "One of these days, Jade, bang. Zoom. Straight to the moon."
I believe the original poster is in error. Ubisoft had originally planned a sequel, but cancelled their plans due to poor sales.Nandesuka 29 June 2005 14:38 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess you're right. I didn't release how old the first post was. Well I can guess we can always hope anyway. (Maybe Xbox 360 or PS3?) I've put some discussion board links below. -Hyad 30 June 2005 04:00 (UTC)
Actually, Michael Ancel originally planned a trilogy. At the moment BG&E 2 and 3 seem unlikely, but who knows. Jordi·✆ 18:16, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Can we delete or archive this outdated nonsense? 24.220.78.243 18:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

That was me - Kitarra 18:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Erm, first time editing a Wiki page, so I don't know if I'm doing this right, but Ubisoft recently announced there will be a sequel: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6190987.html Just thought I sohuld mention this. 84.25.177.153 (talk) 09:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, lol, no they didn't. Ancel talked about it and said and the game is in pre-production, but it hasn't been greenlighted by Ubisoft yet, so, no. --MrStalker (talk) 10:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Now they definitely did, unless Ubisoft are evil bastards that show a trailer for a game they won't greenlight. 24.145.19.247 (talk) 02:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

BGE2 good article nomination

Just a heads-up, I've nominated Beyond Good & Evil 2 for Good Article status, any input on the review is appreciated. Thanks. --MrStalker (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hrm. The game's a long way from even being released. Hardly stable enough to start promoting it? Rehevkor ✉ 21:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Sure it is. --MrStalker (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
How so? A lot is going to change, up to and including the release the article will be almost completely re-written etc. Rehevkor ✉ 21:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
So? It's stable for now. It gaining a GA-status doesn't mean it must have it forever. --MrStalker (talk) 02:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Well one of the prerequisites for GA status is stability. But best of luck either way. Rehevkor ✉ 15:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
It's more stable than most articles. The criteria states "it does not change significantly from day-to-day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute", which it doesn't. --MrStalker (talk) 18:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
But it will change significantly from day-to-day, something I believe a reviewer will take into account. Rehevkor ✉ 18:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Not because of an ongoing edit war or a content dispute, which is all the stable-criteria is about. All articles on wikipedia should change from day to day, that's the point, development. --MrStalker (talk) 23:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Well the GA was failed for, among other reasons, stability anyway. The GAC are not just there to be followed to the letter, common sense is involved. An unreleased game, and in this case a game that hasn't even been officially announced, is inherently unstable and any kind of article promotion is pretty much out of the question. Rehevkor ✉ 23:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Then clearly the criteria is faulty if doesn't reflect such common sense and is rather useless. --MrStalker (talk) 01:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
I guess so. Rehevkor ✉ 01:48, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Story Section Revisions

I have made the plot section more concise, and also, in keeping with the format of many other game articles, removed unnecessary spoilers. With the changes I've made, nothing is lost in the article - people interested in the game can discover the rest by playing it. While there is no WP policy against posting spoilers in articles, I see keeping spoilers out as part of the general internet ethos, and a common courtesy. I am reverting back to my changes. Before anyone changes it back, please discuss it here. Thanks.—GodhevalT C W 18:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:SPOILER. Wikipedia does not avoid spoilers, e.g. It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. They are to be included.Mr T (Based) (talk) 18:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I have read WP:SPOILER. The information I removed is simply unnecessary and does nothing to improve the quality of the article. If you check this article against other game articles, you will see that they do not go into exhaustive detail about the story. But here we go again...—GodhevalT C W 18:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot. Seems fairly straightforward to me.Mr T (Based) (talk) 18:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
As per WP:SPOILER, "subjects of our articles will be covered in detail", this obviously includes spoilers, otherwise the article will have no encyclopaedic value. But keeping that in mine, feel free to make the plot more concise. I'm not sure why you removed the setting section though. Also, "information I removed is simply unnecessary" is not in line with "removed plot spoilers altogether" from your edit summary. Rehevkor ✉ 18:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Sure, except for this portion from WP:SPOILER: "However, when including spoilers, editors should make sure that an encyclopedic purpose is being served." And there is no encyclopedic purpose being served by including this information, which is why I said above that the article is not improved by it. You have already exceeded the number of RVs allowed, so this should be put up for a consensus before to revert my changes again.

Also, I didn't remove the setting section, I just merged the relevant plot points into it. Most of that was maintained. —GodhevalT C W 18:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Plot summaries discuss the entire work, including the conclusion of the work (even if it is a spoiler). There may be some summary that could be done from the current, but it really has a decent length for the game, and fully describes the events that occur. There's no need to chop off much more from it. --M ASEM 18:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
There's every reason to include them, you can't cover a subject in detail without mentioning key plot points, which include spoilers. Rehevkor ✉ 18:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I give in. I suppose it is implicit in the section header being "plot" that there will be spoilers. —GodhevalT C W 19:55, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Nietzsche reference

What's with Nietzsche? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.38.132 (talk) 18:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I am guessing the creators of this game got the title from Nietzsche's book of the same name. Shouldn't there be some mention of Nietzsche in the article? Unless the game creators were in no way influenced by Nietzsche's books, which I find unlikely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.202.132.152 (talk) 03:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

  • According to tvtropes.org the game's working title was Between Good and Evil. (Granted, tvtropes.org is hardly a reliable source.) - Mike Rosoft (talk) 19:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

It seems that the similarity in names is just a coincidence. Anyone who has read the book will affirm that the game and Nietzsche have nothing in common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.243.167 (talk) 17:44, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

GA/FA push and concerns

As I see, it the following have to be addressed:

  • Gameplay needs to be rewritten and sourced
  • Plot and setting need to be sourced as much as able.
  • Development and Reception need to be expanded.
  • Legacy needs to be updated (is BG&E in development now or not?)
    • Of primary concern is that I'm afraid some of the interviews are from unreliable publications or fansites, and wouldn't stand scrutiny at WP:FAC. Taking those out, and we've essentially lost the entire development section. I'm going to go take a look through print archives and see if I can find more print publications for the reception section, and hopefully some development tidbits. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
      • That interview is a major part of the article, and I believe there should be an exception. It's ridiculous to suggest gouging out half the article just because the site the interview was posted on is a fansite.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:28, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
        • You're going to have a hell of a time arguing that a site with no editorial staff or policies and no reputation for accuracy is a "high quality" reliable source. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 03:17, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
          • The point is that this is an exclusive interview, and the evidence points to the fact that it's reliable. Not to mention that all the pertinent information was not written by the site author themselves but transcribed from an interview.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I quickly added a review from IGN and I guess the GameSpot and 1UP reviews should be more extensively drawn upon, as there doesn't seem to be much online. The reference library and online print archive at WP:VG does not seem to be forthcoming with anything. Edge has an interesting review/legacy article: [1]. More later perhaps. bridies (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC) BBC also has a snippet on the game's failure: [2]. bridies (talk) 16:05, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

The Edge piece should come in handy, I didn't even notice that.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 22:11, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Here's a review by The Sydney Morning Herald.[3] It got 4 1/2 stars. additionally I found a preview by Tweaktown.com, I'm not sure if they are found as reliable.[4] I've found an additional review by GamePro but I'm not sure if it's the staff's review: [5] And a Google News Archive of an actual Newspaper's review of the game [6] This article by MTV.com also stated that there were preview trailers of this game in movie theaters before it was released (I don't know of a lot of games that have done that)[7] Here's a search that has an article that mentions the screening of Beyond good and evil, the second one in the search [8] you have to register though.(Subzerosmokeraintalk) 01:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Print sources in the reference library:

  • The game is in the Edge Christmas 2003 (p. 104) issue according to Metacritic. User:X201 and User:Hahnchen both have this according to the reference library. The magazine also has an interview with Ancel.
  • EGM Dec 2003, p. 200. User:Mitaphane has this issue.
  • Game Informer, Dec 2003, p. 142. User:Sesu Prime and User:Surachit have this issue.
  • Official Xbox Magazine, Xmas 2003, User:Surachit.
  • According to the reference library the game was reviewed in gamesTM June 2003, which User:Daveydweeb has. I'm assuming this is actually a preview but might be worth checking out if Daveydweeb is active.

There may yet be more. I can request the magazines later if need be, done for today though. bridies (talk) 16:03, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I've incorporated all of the online sources. I don't know if the Edge Magazine interview has anything that isn't in the post-mortem, but it might be helpful. It seems that all the other magazine articles are just reviews so they might not add much to the article but hey, why not. I don't think the article needs a peer review, the only thing that needs attention is the plot citations, which means someone will have to write down lines from the game if there's no script available. It seems like it could be a Good Article right away.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:10, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'm just concerned about the Gameplay section since it looks like it needs more stuff added to it. Any opinions about that? GamerPro64 (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
I'd been gutting and rewriting the gameplay section as I go; sourcing it is of obvious importance, but it will need a bit more cleanup in the end, I think. Aside from a lack of supporting citations for the plot section itself, I'm fairly happy with the "Synopsis" section. As I said before, I really doubt that the refs supporting the bulk of development content would survive a FAC. I'd prefer a little more length to the reception section, maybe not as baroque as Halo Wars or similar but a little more split (instead of simply listing good vs. bad aspects, breaking it down into components, like graphics/art style, gameplay, music/audio, etc.) Right now it reads as a rather slap-dash laundry list, and I've got some US/UK/CA print refs to add when I've got time (won't be this week, as my spring break and week back at school have not be restive and conducive to major work). Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems that it's missing a part about pearl collecting and item purchasing and use, as well as buying parts from the garage. (well, actually, pearl collecting lets you buy parts from the garage, which in turn lets you progress with the plot).--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 17:37, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I think for FAC at least one more gaming print source in the reception section would be useful, probably the EGM review. bridies (talk) 04:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

GamerPro64 has asked me to work on the 'audio' section of the article, so I'll be ripping that apart over the next few days. If anyone sees an interview or review that talks about the music that I don't seem to be using, let me know. --PresN 19:59, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Sunuva... I was going to go checking for info at Music4Games, but the site's dead. Guess I should let people know about that. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Gentlemen, is this article ready for GAN yet? GamerPro64 (talk) 21:22, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
As I said before, I think it is definitely GA material, though it's obviously not at the FA level without added gameplay/plot citations, fixing of sources and rearrangement of reception.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 00:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm done with the audio section; there's surprisingly little out there and the music4games death took with it one of the few sources I could have used. I'm still using one that won't fly at FAC, but hopefully will work at GAN. --PresN 16:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Here's a few interviews from IGN that may be of some use in the development section ([9] and [10]). ~ Hibana (talk) 14:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It's actually just one, mirrored, but it will be of use and I started adding it :P Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

A few more Michael Ancel interviews ([11] and [12]) and a tidbit about September 11 attacks as inspiration for the game ([13]. ~ Hibana (talk) 16:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me, but is there anybody still putting their hearts out to this article? I'm asking this because there's finally some suggestions of improvement from the Peer Review. I know its Spring Break right now, but I just want to know if some of us are still working to improve BGE. GamerPro64 (talk) 03:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm taking a look at fixing some of the issues now. I didn't really get a spring break and I'm working on final projects, but hopefully I'll have some solid time to work on this. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Image

Seems to be some contention over the image, the above review recommends an image without platform formatting, regardless of the nationality of the image. Should be warrant a discussion before anything else happens on the article itself. Rehevkor ✉ 16:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

What does the nationality of the image have to do with anything? We don't exactly have any favoritism, and in general NTSC covers are picked as that's the version in english-speaking territories. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Secondly, to MrStalker: Why choose JPG over PNG? There's no prescriptive reason. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, when it comes to the platform formatting: I understand why it matters with MS vs. Sony vs. Nintendo because we don't want to promote any specific company, this is what you call the spirit of the rule. When it comes to PC i really don't see the issue. WP:VGIMAGES only says "if possible, a cover without the console's identification can be used by editing the cover picture in order to create a console-neutral picture". Since PC is not a console, it's console-neutral.
Secondly, the replacement uploaded is of lower quality despite being compressed with a lossless format, which is totally useless since (1) it's an image, not an logo or similar (again, see WP:VGIMAGES), and (2) it's obviously re-compressed from an lossy format which makes it completely pointless.
Thirdly, since BGE is a game developed in Europe, in France to be exact, I think the European cover takes preference over any cover from other regions. Remember that this is the international Wikipedia, not the English or the American. I would guess just as many Europeans as Americans read this site.
And lastly David, you deleted the previous cover as an orfud seconds after it became unused, shouldn't it be at least 7 days before it gets deleted? I'm sure you did it with good faith, but still. --MrStalker (talk) 21:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
I assume you meant to say this is "not the British or American" Wikipedia, because this website is very definitely the English-language Wikipedia. And there is no such thing as "the international Wikipedia". — Satori Son 15:01, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, just found this to from WP:VGIMAGES:

Where different cover designs are available for different regions, the one from the region in which the game has been developed should be used. If the game is not developed in an English-language region use the cover from the region in which the game receives its first English language release, unless another English language version has been uploaded first in which case don't change it.

--MrStalker (talk) 21:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
PNGs are uncompressed, which is why they are good to use when you've got to resize an alter a lossy JPG to prevent further artifacts. Your last point would support using the NTSC cover. However, I'm going to go with the "don't you have something better to do?" response. If the primary authors of this page want to switch to another image, more power to them, but I do get annoyed with drive-by conformity edits. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 22:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Okey, sure PNGs are lossless so they don't introduce any more artifacts, I'll give you that. But still, it doesn't improve the quality of the image that is worse than mine JPG version. Regardless, let's just ignore that for now.
What? Just what? It clearly says French game => European cover (I consider the French English-speaking in this regard since the game and cover is in English). EVEN if it isn't so, it also says if a cover from an English-speaking region is uploaded, don't change it.
Me having anything better to do or you getting annoyed are no arguments. I can't understand your reasoning, so please explain further. --MrStalker (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Saying that France is English-speaking is a pretty ludicrous assertion. Many European games are developed in English first, but the guidelines make no such distinction. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 23:29, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
So your argument for keeping the lower-quality, non-European cover is... what exactly? I've yet to see a single solid argument supporting your case, or am I missing something? Please explain.
The guideline first and foremost states to use the cover from the region where the game is developed, and since that cover is in English that one should be used I believe. The editor formulating that particular sentence in the guideline probably didn't consider that just because the developer is not in a English-speaking country it doesn't mean the game's original release isn't in English. He or she was probably thinking of games that are originally released in another language.
Still, even if not considering the previous, your response does not address this: "unless another English language version has been uploaded first in which case don't change it.". --MrStalker (talk) 00:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to say it doesn't really matter. The latter image is, except for the rating icon, more neutral that the original image. Doesn't have to use the European image, beyond preference. Rehevkor ✉ 01:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Who cares? There's really no reason to use one or the other because they're both pretty much the same, unlike the ICO cover which is drastically different in the European version. Small differences in quality don't matter because we're using this image for fair use.--ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
As I've stated before, in the current wording of the WikiProject Video Games' article guidelines the PC covers considered neutral and the European version should be preferred since it's a French-developed game. And no, the covers between the European and North American versions are completely different, it's not just the quality that differs. --MrStalker (talk) 08:25, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
<-- deindent

I've replaced the cover with the European version per guideline discussion at WT:VG/GL. I've even taken the time to remove the PC platform identification even though not required just to make sure everybody's happy. I hope this settles it. --MrStalker (talk) 17:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. But can fair use images be edited in such a way? Rehevkor ✉ 16:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I could have cropped it, placed a black box over it, or make it look natural. I chose the last, does it matter? I only edited the area covered by the identification. If the fair use policy allows it or not somebody with more experience on the subject should judge. --MrStalker (talk) 20:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if it matters, that's why I was asking. Rehevkor ✉ 20:53, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Images can be altered as long as you aren't fundamentally changing the nature of the work. In most cases, cropping would not fall under that distinction (you could make a case that if you were talking about a film and modified the aspect ratio, that would be in violation, but when talking about a character in a movie a cropped screenshot would be fine.) Wholesale manipulation such as drawing items onto a shot and whatnot would be afoul of WP:NFCC (as a derivative work with little encyclopedic value). Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 22:13, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Bounty

Before I donate I just want to make sure everybody gets their proper credit. There's a lot of edits in the history and I don't have the time to go through them all, so please list your username here. Also, keep working for that FA :) --MrStalker (talk) 23:13, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

  • GamerPro64
  • David Fuchs

Copy-editing

This article is currently being copy-edited. Here are some suggestions:

This is the second time I've seen in the article:

Beyond Good & Evil was developed by Michel Ancel, the creator of the Rayman video game, at Ubisoft's Montpellier studios in France.

— Development section

This add-on was confusing in introduction (I removed it), and I thought Rayman developed the game. My question, does this add-on have any significance in relation to this game? Should it be kept? Davtra (talk) 02:30, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Another add-on:

It becomes clear that the Alpha Sections are being possessed and manipulated by the DomZ. Using Beluga, the ship Pey'j used to travel to Hillys, Jade and Double H go on a mission to the DomZ lunar base. After rescuing Pey'j, transmitting her final report, and sparking a revolution, Jade confronts the DomZ High Priest. She learns that her human form is the latest container to hide a power stolen from the DomZ centuries ago. Using that power, she is able to defeat the DomZ High Priest and rescue those that have been abducted.

— Synopsis → Plot

Jade transmit a what report? A report that goes to ... ? Sparking a revolution? The removal of this add-on would make the sentence clear: "After rescuing Pey'j, Jade confronts the DomZ High Priest." Do editors think this add-on is necessary? Thanks, Davtra (talk) 03:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

  • That's the whole point of the game: During the first part of the game Jade collects the evidence of Alpha Sections collaborating with the DomZ (alien invaders) and abducting people for them. In the last mission the plan is to go to the lunar base from where the Alpha Sections broadcast their propaganda, and use it to broadcast Jade's reports instead. And the plan goes out magnificiently (especially since during the course of the mission Jade is able to photograph the leader of the Alpha Sections together with the DomZ priest plotting something), and the moment when Jade and her team broadcast the report (sparking the revolution in the progress) forms the climax of the game. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 11:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

 Doing...

At times, it is only possible to advance in the game with the help of other characters. The characters are computer-controlled, and players direct them via contextual commands. For example, the player can order them to perform a "super attack", either pounding the ground to bounce enemies into the air, allowing the player to hit them from long distances, or knocking them off balance, making them vulnerable to attack. These allies also possess a health bar and are incapacitated if their health is depleted.

— Gameplay section

This sentence is about AI characters performing the "super attacks". Why is the player here? Is the player AI? The problem is there are too many commas. I thought this sentence was going to list the super attacks and the commas separated them. I just noticed add-ons are present in this sentence. Consider using brackets or rewrite it. I've crossed out either because its usage is incorrect. The two sides of the either ... or structure do not match and is imbalanced. After noticing the add-ons, I can see a balance. But avoid using either and keep the sentence as simple as possible. Davtra (talk) 04:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

  • "These allies also possess a health bar and are incapacitated if their health is depleted." - I remember this happening to me about once during the several times I had completed the game. And I believe that the implication is that should your sidekick run out of energy, he's dead (as him running out of energy has the same effect as you doing so - the combat sequence ends, and you return to the previous checkpoint). - Mike Rosoft (talk) 11:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

In addition to obtaining evidence and completing assignments, Jade's camera can be used to take pictures of animal species in exchange for currency and scan objects to reveal more information about the environment. When the camera is upgraded with the "Gyrodisk Glove", Jade can attack enemies1 or activate devices2 from a distance using the camera interface.

— Gameplay section

1 So Jade can't attack enemies without her upgraded camera?
2 What devices? Can you summarize the device? Are they traps? Bombs?

There's something fishy about this sentence. Perhaps switch it around: "Jade can attack enemies and activate devices from a distance using her upgraded camera with "Gyrodisk Glove"." This also means the camera is a weapon, right? Davtra (talk) 08:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

  • I don't think that the gyrodisk launcher is an upgrade for the camera; as the game graphics show, it's just a piece of equipment (weapon) that Jade wears on her hand. The point is that it is used in the camera mode (which can be used both to take photos and to launch gyrodisks), which is what has led to a confusion. [See the game walkthrough at 6:00, where Jade obtains it.]
  • The gyrodisks are used to attack enemies and activate devices from a distance; Jade has a melee weapon from the beginning of the game. (What kind of devices? Mostly, the gyrodisk launcher is used to activate switches; it's also used to interact with the environment, e.g. to rotate the ventilator blades, or let loose a hanging electric cable.) - Mike Rosoft (talk) 11:13, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

1A hovercraft is used to travel around the world, and also used for racing and in other minigames. Later, spaceship Beluga is acquired. The hovercraft can park on board the spaceship. Both vehicles require upgrades in order to reach new areas and progress through the game. Maintenance costs are paid using pearls that are collected throughout the game. The vehicles have a boost ability, and can be repaired using a "Repair Pod" if damaged by enemies2

— Gameplay section

1 Please add topic sentence. This paragraph is about vehicles. Tell readers what they are about to read. For example, "A number of vehicles are available for use."
2 Is "Repair Pod" the same as maintenance, or are they completely separate? Can vehicles, damaged by enemies, be repaired other than using a Repair Pod? Davtra (talk) 08:20, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

  • Pearls are used to purchase upgrades for your vehicles in order to gain access to other parts of the game world; they can't be used to buy anything else. (This also serves to prevent sequence breaking; e.g. you can't purchase a jump kit and use it to reach the slaughterhouses before completing the factory mission - there aren't enough pearls available.)
  • Repair PODs are inventory items, and just like other items they're bought for regular money (or, as the game calls it, "units"). If either you or your vehicle takes damage, it can be recovered at any time by using the appropriate item (PODs for your vehicle, food for Jade and her sidekicks). There's also a limited amount of special items (PA-1 for Jade, Meca-Impulser for vehicles) that completely recover your or your vehicle's energy and increase the maximum energy by one. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 10:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

PSN a European exclusive?

Where is the source that verifies this? Source 2 does not make any mention of this, but rather the XBL release. Is there something I'm missing here? Sarujo (talk) 06:29, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I didn't find a link to it only for EU but found link to the date being June 8th. GamerPro64 21:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Let this be a chalk up to how editors should never jump the gun on information. Or force a source with a heavy burden of information that's just not there. As of this moment, I, a North American citizen, am downloading the demo to HD release on PSN. Sarujo (talk) 22:48, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Having just finished the HD remake on the PSN...

"It features improved character models, textures, and soundtrack. Achievements, trophies and online leaderboards were also added.4"

Without having played the original, the HD remaster for the PSN is really pretty poor, which could well explain the 10$ price tag, whereas games like RE4 are being re-released with a 20$ tag with no reformat/make-over. The textures definitely don't look like they could have been higher resolution than the PS2 games. It doesn't seem like any attention was paid to textures other than maybe blurring them. Maybe the player models got upgraded, dunno, but over all not so. There are slideshow elements where the photographs used are super low resolution to the point of being hardly discernible. It seems like if much attention was given these photo images could've easily been replaced with the crisper photos you are able to take in game.

The worst part is all of depth buffer and decal type visual glitches, which are just all over the place and very glaring. There are just a slew of graphical glitches outside of this. The camera shutter icon at the end of the game even has disembodied black pixels (normally less apparent on the dark backgrounds) which no one bothered to clean up.

At one point I fell thru the factory level into a black abyss. But I read somewhere that even the original game was plagued with this kind of glitch. I wonder if the game would not play better thru the built in emulator via a PS2 disc albeit at 480p sans full widescreen.

The leaderboards are also quite silly. They just track progress, so everyone is naturally going to be at 100% since that's not hard to do. It might've been interesting to race to 100% during the first few hours after release. There is also an "internet code" feature on the save screen that is not explained. I dunno what it does. Anyway, it seems like it should be mentioned that the game is full of technical defects, at least on the PSN, but not a bad deal at 10$. I think if the game sold for any more than 10$ customers would have been dissatisfied given the quality. --67.54.192.39 (talk) 22:38, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah i agree, i got the 360 version, texture glitches, blury textures.. i think all this talk up upgrades is marketing BS/lies... --82.4.97.209 (talk) 03:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Game design flaw

I find it interesting to point out that Beyond Good & Evil suffers from a major design flaw. At one point of the game, Jade is supposed to recover Pey'J's jetboots in the Nutrills factory. In order to do this, she needs to go up several stairs using the elevator, wander through the factory, recover the boots, take a few pictures, then leave to go to the slaughter house.

The issue is, it is very possible to leave the factory without taking the boots, then play during several hours going through the slaughter house. Unfortunately, the boots are mandatory in order to get the flying ship which allows going to Hyllis moon. When trying to get the boots again, the player will find it impossible to get to the upper stairs since the elevator is entirely broken and not repairable. Thus, the game can not be completed and has to be started over after a dozen hours of play time.

Pretty irritating indeed, and coming from an experienced game designer like Ancel, I find it quite unforgivable... Should this flaw description be included in the article (after being rewritten, possibly) ? --Kwyxz 12:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Are patches still being released for the game? If so, perhaps, they will fix the error in one of them. Chronolegion 13:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The simple answer is: No, ain't gonna happen' boy --MrStalker 14:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Why tha hell would you leave the factory without the boots anyway? If you do you deserve to "lose hours of gameplay". I think it's good thing that this option exsists, that you actually can mess up. I prefer sandbox gameplay 99 times of 100, it just makes the game more realistic and more fun. And if you do mess up, just reload the god damn thing from a game save. --MrStalker 14:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
How on Earth are you supposed to know you'll need the jetboots later in the game? It can be assumed they're here for decoration, especially since it's not possible to take them if you're not perfectly in front of it (or maybe I found another bug then, since I actually tried to take the damn boots, but as it did not appear to be possible I assumed they were here for decoration). And by the way, it is also possible to exit this place without even seeing the boots. Considering the number of people complaining about this issue when the game was released, I do not think it makes the game more fun. Saying we "deserved" to re-do two thirds of the game because of this is quite childish. The console versions of the game do not allow an infinite number of game saves. Since the issue appears several hours after not taking the boots, reloading is in most cases not possible. --Kwyxz 01:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, I guess that depends on how well one play the game, doesn't it? At least I have never had any problem with this issue. --MrStalker 21:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
This is hardly related to skills or gaming talents. You never having had any problem with this issue is irrelevant. I'm quite sure you never even thought about it. Please stop this childish arguing. --Kwyxz 15:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Well... it's still more realistic with non-linear gameplay. --MrStalker 08:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Because when people play a game with talking animals and evil alien conspiracies, they're looking for realism.SuperGerbil 19:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I always use multiple save slots, and haven't played any of the console versions, but I assume you have at least more than one save slot, right? Then I too agree it's your own damn fault. Also, by that time in the game, you should know how the game is played. It's adventure game very much like Zelda. You don't leave without the boots. You KNOW you'll need them later. Even though I agree this flaw shouldn't be in the game in the first place, I don't see how you could've missed them. Also, you're not losing a dozen hours. The game itself is only 10 hours long. That's nothing to a lot of gamers. SoulSlayer 16:15, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
There are a few technical hiccups in the game, but it's a damn fine piece of work overall. If you consider the fact that it's close to 12 gig of content on 3 discs, and I only found 2 flaws, you should really let it slide. The boots issue? If you speak to all the kids, there are clues in what they say, especially the girl who is learning Hillyian (English if you prefer). The sensible thing to do if you had missed the boots would be to look up the code on the net. The other big flaw is the rather well documented triangle key fiasco. Those of you who didn't get this bug may like to hear. Whenever you get to the stage where 3 robots drop down from the ceiling and you fight them with Double H, the defeated third robots supposedly drops a second traingle key for Double H so that you can get through the door. Only the scripting broke. So everyone who patched the game has to tweak their save with a hex editior. That's right folks, the patched version had the bug, but the unpatched one didn't. Worse still, the broken script causes CTDs when you try to leave the area. If not for the save terminal, this bug would be an awful lot worse. Fairly easy fix though. A fan released a download to get around the problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.38.132 (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Ehrm, no. The codes on the boots are randomly generated so you can't check them on the net. The other issue you describe is caused by an illegal crack, not Ubisoft's patch. --MrStalker (talk) 16:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know the issue can be fixed using a program called BGAEFIX, which can be downloaded if you can use a search engine. 93.125.198.182 (talk) 18:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
You want a flaw? heres a flaw... you take pey'j's jet boots right? you have them cause they have a code on them right? howcome when you rescue him he has his boots on...? also hes all dressed like before even though they stripped him and locked him up...--82.4.97.209 (talk) 03:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Completely incorrect citations in the Developer section

The article states that the game received negative reception at the Electronics Expo, but no mention of that is made in the given citation. In addition, it says content had to be cut to make the game commercially viable, once again giving a link that makes no mention of anything of the sort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.185.142 (talk) 05:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Spotchecks and such

I've gone through and spot-checked statements sourced to refs 11, 12, 18, 19, 20, 61, and 62 and didn't see any factual issues. I'm going to run through and do a final copyedit, although another set of eyes would probably help. In terms of content that's there the gameplay section still feels a little disjointed and needs a few more references for what's in there. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Main city hub - citation needed

I've added a citation for the minigames, but can't for the life of me find one that says anything about the central hub in the game online. Might anyone have anything in print about this? Samwalton9 (talk) 19:07, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved per nom. Orlady (talk) 05:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


Beyond Good & Evil → Beyond Good & Evil (video game) – As it stands, when doing a normal search, the article is liable to get confused with Beyond Good and Evil, a book written by German author Friedrich Nietzsche. I can see that the "and" in the book and the "&" in the game's title are different, but I don't feel it's enough of a difference to get round this confusion. And when the "video game" option is selected, a redirect follows that is also a tad confusing when the title "Beyond Good & Evil" is seen. ProtoDrake (talk) 10:44, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

  • Support - Yeah, I don't know why the title was changed to begin with. GamerPro64 15:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support - Me neither Rainbow Shifter (talk) 16:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:16, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose, I feel that the hatnote at the top of both this page and the book's page are sufficient for disambiguating the two. There is no need to add parenthetical dab on top of that. Axem Titanium (talk) 05:40, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support though I think the general moral philosophy, and not Nietzche's specific one would make a better primary topic, were such an article available. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

HD Version

The HD Version is broken and should not be compared to the original game. You can not move the camera freely indoors any more while driving the hovercraft, so you can not solve 90% of the puzzels. Going through the puzzles is just pure luck, not planning them out in advance and solving them as in the original. On top of that you get all this drawing bugs. The original had none -- NONE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.116.194 (talk) 11:53, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

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