Talk:Betty (Taylor Swift song)

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Betty (Taylor Swift song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 9, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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Requested move 16 September 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn, following identification of an article about another song. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Betty (Taylor Swift song) → Betty (song) – If you look at the Music header of the Betty DAB page, you can clearly see that there are no other song articles with the title "Betty". Doggy54321 (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

yes. I agree. BawinV (talk) 18:56, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree, except for the fact that there's Betty (Brooke Fraser song), so there is more than one "Betty" song with an article Rfl0216 (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rfl0216: and this is why I appreciate when DAB pages are updated... what should I do now? Should I wait for the discussion to be closed or should I argue that it’s WP:2DABPRIMARY? Doggy54321 (talk) 23:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Doggy54321: It's your choice whether to withdraw the proposal, wait for the discussion to be closed, or offer further comments. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:45, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BarrelProof: no it’s fine, close the discussion. I agree with BawinV. Doggy54321 (talk) 18:47, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Partially ambiguating the title would probably not be a good idea, given Betty (Brooke Fraser song). —BarrelProof (talk) 23:18, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay then, I think we can close to discussion. BawinV (talk) 21:12, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Neofolk[edit]

Why is this neofolk, it shares no similarities to neofolk as a genre, the “source” is some unknowing writer who passingly claims that it is neofolk, certainly not a definitive source. MerryMonthOfMay (talk) 15:56, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

Passed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:26, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Betty (Taylor Swift song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 12:49, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a. (reference section):

b. (citations to reliable sources):

c. (OR):

d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a. (major aspects):

b. (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Copyvio check

I reviewed all matches above 7% dounf using Earwig's Copyvio Detector.
References to a porch and a cardigan at the end of "Betty" echo the imagery in "Cardigan" and seated in front of a glowing stagelight both appear in sources, but I think are acceptable per WP:LIMITED

Edit wars

I see some differences of opinion over whether "neofolk" applies as a genre, but that seems to have settled down.

The Wikipedia entry of neofolk says it is a combination of folk and industrial music. I believe the journalist who wrote that piece was not an expert in music..

Images and sample

Images are appropriate. Cover is fair use and the Dylan picture is PD. Positioning, captions and ALT text OK; although it might be worth amending the Dylan caption to "...by two of Bob Dylan's 1960s albums." as the sessions and sound for some of his other 1960s albums were rather different.
Use of the sample seems proportionate and justified.

Background and release

Spot check on her eighth studio album - no issues.
Spot check on Swift cited Patty Griffin's "Top of the World" (2004) as her inspiration to write from a male perspective - no issues.
the song was made a single to US country radio stations didn't read quite right to me, but that could be due to my unfamilarity with the phrase in American English.

Y Rewritten

Composition and lyrics

Optionally, consider using WP:CITEBUNDLE for [10][11][12][13]

Done

Is one source adequate to support "displays vivid storytelling"

I guess the sources in the "critical reception" section suffice..

Critical reception

Optionally, consider using WP:CITEBUNDLE for [24][26][27][28].

Done

Spot check on the McRedmond review - no issues.

Commercial performance

Chart positions in various territories are referenced in the Charts section but not here. I think this is suitable for any readers who wish to see where the information is sourced from.
Spot check on the highest debut for a woman since Bebe Rexha's "Meant to Be" - no issues. (The source says the track was by Rexha and Florida Georgia Line, but the latter appear to be "only" featured artists on it.)

Live acoustic version

I might be missing something, but I couldnt see either of the sources used confirming that "Swift first performed 'Betty' live at" the September 16, 2020 show.

Y removed "first"

Optionally, reword burgundy sequined turtleneck to avoid a MOS:SEAOFBLUE (It's a bit artificial, but I guess something like "burgundy-colored sequin-covered" might be workable)

Done

Spot check on she performed the clean version - no issues. (But perhaps "a clean version", as no clean version has been mentioned in the article so far?)

Credits and personnel

Not sure how the issue is normally adressed, but would it be suitable to state something like "Joe Alwyn – songwriter (credited as William Bowery), producer" here?

Y I added a note. Let me know your thoughts, Ippantekina (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Charts / Certifications / Release history

No issues.

References

I edited some date formats with the help of a sript, feel free to revert.

Infobox and lead

Infobox: 4:54 is not supported by a citation. (McRedmond has 4:53, but I know from working on articles that sources often differ by a second or two, and such trivial differences typically don't seem worth mentioning)
Infobox: Studios are not supported by a citation.
Infobox: Optionally, wikilink Kitty Committee (as in Mirrorball (song))
plenty of plucking guitars - delightful as the phrase is, I don't see it supported by the article text.
I think that noted "Betty" for reminiscing of needs a tweak
"first performed" - see comment under Live acoustic version
Optionally, add a comma after in "recorded" in the performance was recorded and released on digital music platforms two days later

Done all. Pitchfork says "plucky guitars" so I misinterpreted that lol. Ippantekina (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on the article, Ippantekina. Feel free to challenge any of the points above. I'll place this on hold. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks BennyOnTheLoose, will get back to you asap. If 7 days have elapsed and I'm still unresponsive, please ping me as a reminder. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 04:47, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All should be done now BennyOnTheLoose. I'd get to your GAN of Obviously 5 Believers soon. In the meantime, might you have some comments to give at Talk:City of Lover#Merger proposal with Lover (Live from Paris)? It's not by any means obligatory but I'm just fond of having different inputs on the issue. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 02:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.