Talk:Battle of Enerhodar

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On 19 April 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Siege of Enerhodar. The result of the discussion was Procedural close.

Grenades against protestors on 2 March - any WP:RS?[edit]

Apparently live grenades have been used against the citizens. Can anyone find a reliable source? Boud (talk) 16:04, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

British Channel 4 News via YouTube? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqNuZDeMrKQ&t=77s --80.137.45.13 (talk) 01:00, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Mayor was cited in Ukrinform, so I added that. I'll add the youtube link too. ErieSwiftByrd (talk) 07:06, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Alleged" is really the word here. "Grenades" is not very specific but the nature of the grenades allegedly used would be very relevant to the nature of the claim. Soldiers targeting civilians with frag grenades would almost certainly constitute a war crime the same as trying to shoot them. But using shock grenades or the like would not be. Lethal vs non-lethal force. So is the claim that this was a full-on frag grenade? That would seem a rather extraordinary claim given how close the people in the video is to the blast. If the video is to be trusted that is, because strictly speaking - it doesn't show a grenade (neither thrown or launched), it only shows an explosion. 78.78.143.46 (talk) 20:50, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that Ukrinform article is kinda sketchy. The picture of the frag grenade is clearly a stock image and the entire “article” is a single sentence.

Tschau, Dwightol102 (talk) 00:26, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russian victory?[edit]

I can't find any RS saying that the city was captured, just the power plant. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 13:46, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Same. I changed it back to ongoing. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Normantas Bataitis: & @Allahbosno77: where are the sources that the city, not just the plants, were captured by Russian soldiers? The siege was two parts, the plants and the city. The article only states the plants were captured, not the city. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:05, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the map who is in page "2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine" the city of Enerhodar is shown as controlled by Russians. So... Normantas Bataitis (talk) 18:10, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I asked about that in the talk page of the article earlier today. I think someone prematurely updated the map without double checking, thinking that the plants being captured meant the city being captured. Elijahandskip (talk) 18:11, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's been fixed. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 18:32, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the mayor saying that the city council building has been taken with most council members relocating to a local pizzeria to operate out of. Spaceman2288 (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

add recent hospital attack.[edit]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60675599 COSMIC ARC guy (talk) 18:12, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, as that occurred nowhere near Enerhodar. Curbon7 (talk) 08:50, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 April 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. in favor of conflicting RM discussion at Talk:Battle of Kherson#Requested move 24 April 2022 (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:04, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Enerhodar → Siege of Enerhodar – On 1 March when "Russian forces had surrounded the city", it became a siege which lasted four days. The event lasted 5 days, but 4 of the 5 days was a siege, meaning it should be Siege of Enerhodar instead of Battle of Enerhodar. Noting this was WP:BOLD moved[1] to the current name. The old name was "Siege of Enerhodar". Elijahandskip (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - I was the one who moved the page from Siege to Battle. Why? Because I was unable to find enough reliable sources referring to this as a siege. In contrast, there were many reliable sources using the terms attack or battle. For Wikipedia to refer to something as a siege, it should be a widely-used term in reliable sources. Ganesha811 (talk) 03:58, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would like to point out that a google search for "Siege" + "Enerhodar" came back with 98 results. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:10, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's true - and every single one of the first 20 I checked are using the word siege to talk about Mariupol, and mentioning Enerhodar elsewhere in the article. Ganesha811 (talk) 11:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Enerhodar. There seems to be no support in the sources for this proposal. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:06, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and alternative: Having googled news sources for the two terms and looked at a sample of these, I am not seeing either of the two names being used. I would conclude that neither satisfies WP:COMMONNAME. There are no Google Scholar sources. In the absence of anything that comes close to a common name for the event in sources, it is up to us to select a name that is most appropriate. The fighting was over in about a five day period. This is not consistent with the conventional use of the term siege, which usually involves conquest by attrition or a deliberate attack requiring extended preparation. Using "battle of" tends to imply a common name status that doesn't exist. I would therefore propose "battle for Enerhodar" as a better alternative. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:42, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ping: Elijahandskip, Ganesha811, Gog the Mild. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Battle of Kherson which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Title[edit]

So what makes this a battle instead of a siege? Dawsongfg (talk) 01:31, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What has happened there since March?[edit]

??? Xx236 (talk) 10:00, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]