Talk:Battle of Avdiivka (2023–2024)

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On 26 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Battle of Avdiivka (2022–2023) to Battle of Avdiivka (2022–present). The result of the discussion was moved.

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Shouldn't it be "pyrrhic victory"?[edit]

Considering the losses of Russian army and exhausted (for now) advancement potential, shouldn't be the result changed to a "pyrrhic victory" instead? 37.55.114.124 (talk) 17:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

cope more (Redacted)

cope 2A02:E0:A50B:E900:2D5D:3657:43A3:85FE (talk) 18:44, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, per longstanding Wikipedia policy not to add such adjectives to results. Also, I don't think there are RSs that call it that. Smeagol 17 (talk) 19:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

per definition a Pyrrhic Victory is one that inflicts a toll onto the Victor which is tantamount to defeat which clearly is not the case here. The Russians can and still are conducting offensive operations and the Ukrainians are still on the defensive, there was no real change except that Avdiivka has now been taken and the frontline moved. Alex.Wajoe (talk) 19:40, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its ukraine, not russia getting attrited according to mainstream sources

“One of the key events from 2023 was that Russia was able to recruit a large number of volunteers,” said Rob Lee, a senior fellow with the Foreign Policy Research Institute, which is based in Philadelphia. :“The flip side is that this is happening right as Ukraine is facing mobilization problems.”

"Ukrainian leaders responded to the gathering pressure by rushing in a medley of special units and the Third Separate Assault Brigade, an experienced infantry unit with a far-right heritage, to plug the gap and eventually help the retreat. A soldier with the brigade said they had been taken off the front line around the eastern city of Bakhmut in recent months and had only a short time to recuperate before being sent to Avdiivka as firefighters."

"The exhausting of one of Ukraine’s best units during a time of crisis, military analysts said, points to a growing problem in Ukrainian ranks: There are simply not enough troops to go around on the front."

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/world/europe/ukraine-russia-strategy-avdiivka.html

The idea that the side dropping dozens of FABS with 5x the artillery is getting attrited faster than the smaller force that isnt is absurd. Do ukrainais seriously believe their killing 10x the russians for every Ukranian KIA? How? With drones and snipers? Russia has more of those than Ukraine too.

I am getting pretty annoyed that every Russian victory is being claimed as "Pyrrhic". I agree with the anons here. This is pure cope. The reality is that the Russians still have the tempo and are currently assaulting Robotyne right now. Speaking of Robotyne. You know what actually counts as a Pyyrhic victory? Ukraine 'claiming' the small village of Robotyne during the Ukrainian Counteroffensive. Because Ukraine wasted the majority of its remaining elite forces, armoured columns and ammunition to capture a tiny, irrelevant village that so happens to be a salient surrounded by Russian forces on the high ground on all sides. And now? They are losing the only 'victory' they had during the Counteroffensive after losing their most fortified city in the entirety of Ukraine. That is Pyrrhic. 42Grunt (talk) 16:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow that actually makes a lot of sense now that you are laying it out like this, you could add it Here if there are sources agreeing. Alex.Wajoe (talk) 00:26, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thats some premium copium right here, Theres simply nothing left of Avdiivka, Russia spent decade trying to capture it and wasted thousands of cannon fodder for a piece of rubble, if that's not pyrrhic victory then I don't know what it is. 128.124.140.40 (talk) 11:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cope Mordanist (talk) 10:14, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 March 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please make the following change to the article:

The current wording says that it was U.S. Intelligence that neutralized the battalions. Uhoj (talk) 12:49, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done M.Bitton (talk) 13:56, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

Given the change of article scope, the top image probably neds to be changed, given that it is from May. Smeagol 17 (talk) 06:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Per anonymous Russian military source"[edit]

Such references have no place in Wikipedia: all information must come from verifiable reliable sources. I am surprized editors who edit such sensitive areas do not know this most basic rule of Wikipedia. - Altenmann >talk 16:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Navbox position[edit]

Nobody will notice the navbox at the very bottom, because nobody will scroll down the enormous list of references (including myself :-). Therefore I placed it under the "See also", which is a natural position: the navbox is the list of pages to "see also". - Altenmann >talk 16:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:NAV and WP:NAVBOX - place at bottom of article after other standard article appendices (see also MOS:LAYOUT). Also, your edit left two navboxes in the article. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]