Talk:Anggun/Archive 1

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Archive 1

clean up request

who decides about putting up such a clean up request and could that person please explain the reason why he / she did it? Boneyard 14:18, 2 May 2005 (UTC) ''''Bold text''''Bold text'Bold text''''

Hi! Any user can by adding {{cleanup}}. There are at Wikipedia:Template messages. It needs light copyediting: album titles should be in italics rather than bold; individual song titles should be in "quotations", and neither italicized nor bolded, unless, if I'm getting this part right, you're talking specifically about single in very specific contexts where it compares to a record:
"Neige au Sahara" reached number X on the MTV Europe charts.
but
"Neige au Sahara" was the first single from...
but
Neige au Sahara became the number X single in France.
Some things should be linked where an article would help the reader understand what is being talked about (Microcredit? What would be the link for Chevalier des Arts et Lettres?) or links could be better (Pope John Paul II rather than Pope). Some wording is ambiguous:
Her parents at first did not approve of her marriage but finally relented. Eventually they divorced.
This probably means Anggun and her first husband divorced, but it could be that her parents divorced.
But the big thing is the "News" section. This is something you'd find (with good reason!) on an Anggun fan page, but you shouldn't really have a "News" section in an encyclopedia article. It should be rewritten into the main body of the article:
""Être Une Femme", the first single from Luminescence, was released in France on January 2, 2005..."
I didn't have time when I posted the request to touch it up myself, but I thought the article deserved to look more like a Wikipedia article in these ways. Why am I going on about it now rather than doing it? Because you asked! *friendly smile* :) Samaritan 13:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
ok, thanks, i certainly agree with some of those points, ill look into making those changes Boneyard 14:18, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
some other people did some work and i also redid somethings, it's looking better now, but not done yet. Boneyard 08:07, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
I have done more editing of the page. Good see others are interested in Anggun, too!! :) Mseames 23:47, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

==> Ambassador of Audemars Piguet in CHARITY Work ?! Something is wrong here as she's getting paid for this endorsement contract!

Muslim?

I wonder how she is Muslim if she has songs like "Undress Me"....:D Anyhow, minor point, but did she learn French in Indonesia or overseas? Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 09:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

D'accord, although I wish people would just say they were one or another (and not lukewarm *cough* *cough*). ;-) Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 17:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Islam is one of those religions where you may be much better off living "lukewarm" than apostatizing. Particularly in countries known for violence. The Jade Knight 09:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)'Bold text'
Not sure about how Muslim she is and anyway i think it's none of my (or your) business, but anyway, she learned French in Alliance Francaise in France.. unsure if she learnt it prior to marrying her first husband and moving away from Indonesia - --Sweetpopcorn1 12:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
She has identified herself publicly as a Muslim, most recently in an interview during her last concert series in Indonesia:

http://discover-indo.tierranet.com/anggunConcert.htm "I was born in a Muslim country. I am Muslim. But I’m very concerned that my country is becoming backward in this way. Because Islam is known as a tolerant religion. I don’t support countries that frustrate the young generation." 173.228.123.13 (talk) 05:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)ahassan05

Indonesian?

Does she still hold Indonesian citizenship? Or even so, I think it would be more ethical to say she was a French-Indonesian singer/songwriter/etc... over "Indonesian with French citizenship" making it sound as if the French citizenship is rather novelty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.215.129.118 (talk) 14:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that it would be more ethical to say she is a "Indonesian singer with French citizenship", not "French-Indonesian". She's pure Indonesian. Her family is Javanese and didn't had European or other countries' blood. She got French citizenship just in the year 2000. SwarnaDwipa (talk) 10:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I believe we delete references that suggest she is Indonesian, If she is French and swore loyalty to Francophile 11:22, 29 Mar2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.252.4.21 (talk)

long n borin -- spice it up

article is too long and boring for this girl. more fitting of some old washed up fart like paul mccartney or yoko ono. can someone spice it up? how bout some risque fotos? or audio of wikipedians doing karaoke of her songs? Senor dellums (talk) 23:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a soft porn karaoke bar.  Xihr  05:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
@Senor dellums: Of course, reading is thoroughly boring and tedious if there aren’t any pictures. That is also, and even more so, true of an article about a female singer or actress. Señor Deliriums, I’m very glad to have met a like-minded Wikipedian here. I share your conviction that an article about an entertainment industry worker not only can but must be shot with astounding photos. Otherwise we have no entertainment. Starting from this obvious premise, I’ve added a WP:reliable source with some of Anggun’s photos offered by an article in a Malay-language newspaper. To tell the truth, I don’t think the photos are risqué. And yet they’re really delightful and meet the ideal of entertainment, characteristic of your consumerist morality. Beat off to Enjoy them. Besides, the article is now supplemented spiced by Anggun’s video which, it is to be hoped, will satisfy fundamental needs of an avid hedonist and provide you with an emotional outburst. Althoug Anggun’s interview on the NET. TV program is not a soft porn movie, she shows hot legs at the very beginning of her talk and looks absolutely stunning, so that watching the oriental bunny’s interview will grant your request to spice the article, counterpose it to the biographies of old farts, and make you cream in your pants.
See also: The Orient is a delicate matter and WP:Don't feed the troll
--Sir Gossip (talk) 20:13, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
@Senor dellums: I've just found a risqué photo: Anggun by Hubert Fanthomme. In order to "spice it up". Wonderful? An Asian soporific draught you need, yeah? --Sir Gossip (talk) 17:29, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Album Sales

Au nom de la lune or Snow on the Sahara was the best selling album all time by Anggun. The album only sold more that 1 millions copies worldwide in year 2014, the source here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H9WYcVenso&feature=youtu.be&a and here http://www.indopos.co.id/2014/05/tembus-1-juta-kopi-untuk-album-snow-sahara.htm . That mean the others album can be not reach millions copy, so please cite the references at the total album sale. The new information from Anggun's Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153224088941719&video_source=pages_finch_trailer) said her albums sold more than 2 Millions in the Western world.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.186.55.20 (talk) 16:08, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

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Anggun’s personal life

Other articles about singers usually contain a particular section under the title "Personal (private) life." This article is an exception. IMHO, it is worth creating a special section dedicated to the private life of this Indonesian Gyulchatai. Even though the career of a musician and his/her private life overlap, they are still different topics. Stressing in every way possible the special place occupied by the question of spouses and children in an encyclopaedic article about a singer, some Wikipedians are so bold as to claim that “Unless the marriage is either notable to the artist's career or is somehow notable in its own right it's not really even important to the article.” (Walter Görlitz: Template talk:Infobox musical artist/Archive 12#spouse). Although there is no necessity to limit the subject-matter of an encyclopaedic article about a singer to exposition of simply the professional achievements, it is still customary to draw a distinct line between the professional and the personal. It is specially obvious from the example of articles such as Beyoncé and Jennifer Lopez where information concerning personal life is confined to a comparatively small section: Template_talk:Infobox_musical_artist/Archive_12#Continued_discussion_of_.22Spouse.22_and_.22Infobox_person.22_template_merge_and.2For_use (Livelikemusic). Thus, from the standpoint of these Wikipedians, the demarcation of a musician’s personal and professional life, a clear delimitation of them, and the impermissibility of mixing and confusing these matters that do not coincide with one another, all these are requirements of rigorous encyclopaedic character and therefore constitute demands of Wikipedia. In Wikipedia, as in any encyclopaedia, the author is dealing with cultural and socially significant values. As for the question of spouses and children, it finds its rightful place in gossip magazines or in a gossip special section of an encyclopaedic article. --Sir Gossip (talk) 01:07, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Not quote sure why I was linked. Has there been an edit war about the subject's personal life? Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:15, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
@Walter Görlitz: Thanks for your contributions to this article. Yet I regret to say that I don’t understand this correction made by you: "She gave birth … on November 8, 2007." → "on 8 November 2007." As far as I know we must write either "on the 8th of November" or "on November 8, 2007." The phrase "8 November 2007" is grammatically incorrect, isn’t it? Of course, I’m compelled to recognize that I can be mistaken since you’re a native speaker of English. Does your correction reflect the Canadian dialect? --Sir Gossip (talk) 09:42, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
The date format must be consistent. I used a script to modify the dates. The script often changes wording as well. We do not write "8th of November". See MOS:DATE. "On 8 November 2007" is grammatically correct though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:07, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for your explanation, but I didn't bear in mind date formats in templates. Thank you anyway. --Sir Gossip (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
@Walter Görlitz: "Has there been an edit war?" Yeah. Of course, there have been a lot of WP:Edit wars, e.g. Edit War I a. Edit War II. After I had failed to add spouse information to Anggun's infobox, Connor Behan helped me with my attempts élan vital and pointed out here that there were militant anti-Personalists among Wikipedians who conducted a war against the "spouse = " parameter in infoboxes, adhered the militant denial of the necessity of this parameter and interpret personal (spouse) information one-sidedly as lacking any encyclopaedic content. --Sir Gossip (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Religion

Awesomemeeos, relying on Anggun’s Twitter profile, considers it proper to add Category:French Muslims a. Category:Indonesian Muslims to the article. Unfortunately, he does not mention any of the singer’s tweets that could serve as evidence for her being Muslim. Personally, I’ve only managed to find the following tweet: "To my Muslim brothers and sisters, Minal 'Aidin wal-Faizin [id] Eid Mubarak!" To my mind, these congratulations look like a matter of courtesy rather than Anggun’s identifying herself as a Muslim. Besides, I cannot help asking: how can the career of an entertainment industry worker be combined with Islam? I’ve just adduced two sources to show that Anggun’s adherence to a definite religious denomination is rather formal and superficial. It would be more correct to say that she follows the principle of religious freedom. --Sir Gossip (talk) 13:38, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Sir Gossip Well, terima kasih for doing the proper research! I was rather lazy and didn't know much better :-/ — AWESOME meeos ！ * ([ˈjæb.ə ət məɪ])) 23:18, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
terima kasih? Thumbs up icon My pleasure Yeah, the Indonesian cutie pie inflames everyone with aspiration for learning and speaking Indonesian. And yeah, we have made "proper research." Consistently scientific, I’d like to say. It seems we are to put it more clearly: "A thorough study was made of Anggun’s attitude to religion, and her phase transitions from one religion to another were investigated in detail." But I only wanted to say that Anggun is a Muslim as well as I’m Alexander the Great. Or Napoleon, at least. I don’t mind your adding Category:Muslims. I only consider it derisory. I think this category matters nothing in the given context. At first Anggun was raised a Muslim, then she went to a Catholic School and eventually became a Buddhist, with she being engaged in entertainment industry. If this way of life characterises profound religiosity, then I’m a very skilful ballerina (a female ballet dancer), too. To my mind, Anggun’s religious transitions witness that she knows the universal methodological significance of the idea of development and the principle of historism on which the entire categorical edifice of materialist dialectics is built. So it would be more correct to add "Category:Spokesmen of Marxist ethics in show business" or "Category:Dialectically thinking workers of entertainment industry."
See also: § Muslim?
--Sir Gossip (talk) 00:10, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Edit War

Yesterday an anonymous user from Jakarta (IP 139.192.96.208) substituted a citation template by an inline citation, with the source of the citation and its original text in Indonesian being removed. The editor, however, offered no explanation to his view that the template {{Text and translation}} must be replaced. My objection to this revision arises from the fact that materials available in Internet newspapers are often removed. Hence, it is necessary to provide the reader with Anggun's words in the original. Not having the original Indonesian text of the citation, the reader will not be able to find its (archived) source if the present link to it becomes dead. --Sir Gossip (talk) 07:55, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Translation needed

The description of this image is written in French: "La chanteuse Anggun en concert au Trianon à paris en juin 2012." Personally, I don't understand anything. Who can translate? --Janngun Dungan (talk) 20:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Voice of Asia

Ian De Cotta from Singapore newspaper Today called her the "Voice of Asia" (Anggun#Artistry and public image)

If so, we are to add Sheryn Regis (Crystal Voice of Asia) to the section "See also" --Janggun Dungan (talk) 18:20, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

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Converts to Buddhism from Islam?

Where are grounds for this revision made by Glorious Engine? To my mind, this revision glosses over a lay character of Anggun’s religious views and their root opposition to all institutional religions:

I believe in being flexible and open-minded. ... I pick up things from the various religions and adapt.

So Anggun hasn’t been converted to Buddhism. She defends toleration, and sometimes even comes to a justification of religious indifferentism:

Have you retained your religion? - "I was born a Muslim but I went to a Catholic school and I’m now learning Buddhism. For me, the most important thing is not what religion you believe in but how you do things, how you live your life… that you believe in God. It doesn’t matter how you call your God as long as you believe in God. That’s the most important thing." // Anggun: ‘The Grace Created in a Dream’ (The Philippine Star)

These words witness that Anggun is neither a Muslim nor a Buddhist. It would be more appropriate to use the term coined by William James: "personal religion." Or something of that kind. --Janggun Dungan (talk) 23:49, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

https://forum.dhammacitta.org/index.php?topic=22537.0 --Glorious Engine (talk) 03:06, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

  • The source you’re pointing out reads:

Belajar (sic!) Agama Buddha ” Sekarang aku senang dapat sungguh-sungguh mempelajari Agama Buddha.”

So the source tells us that Anggun is learning Buddhism or she is interested in Buddhism, but there’s no evidence that she has been converted to Buddhism. I’ve added Anggun’s words from another source. Judging from her words, she is not a religious woman in the sense of institutional religions. She is interested in Buddhism, but she is not a Buddhist. Of cource, I don’t think it matters. The article is devoted to a singer rather than a religious activist. I merely say that the categories in question ("Muslims" or "Converts to Buddhism") are misleading. Another question evokes curiosity: according to Wikidata, Anggun speaks not only French and English, but also Dutch and Italian (let alone her native Indonesian). Is she a polyglot? Do you know the corresponding sources? --Janggun Dungan (talk) 11:38, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

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