Talk:Alastair Sim

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Huh?[edit]

[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg |thumb| Alastair Sim in [[A Christmas Carol]]]]

Someone, please clarify which movie is which. Please make the caption more specific.

Thank You.

[[ hopiakuta | [[ [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] -]] 11:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's from the film Scrooge (1951) (aka A Christmas Carol). I've corrected the caption. -- SteveCrook 15:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is correct. The movie was released in the US as A Christmas Carol (which means this is the American poster), but was originally made and released in the UK as Scrooge, so both names are correct. Ron g 14:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Although according to Wikipedia policy, I believe, the UK title should take precedence, as it is a British film (just as British English takes precedent in a UK article). David L Rattigan 18:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
True, which is why the caption under the poster (in the main article, not here) says, "Scrooge (1951) (aka A Christmas Carol)" and not the other way around. The poster itself says "A Christmas Carol", and should be replaced if we find something for the English version." Ron g 13:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

Which cancer? F W Nietzsche (talk) 12:46, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? (2)[edit]

If "he gave his most celebrated performance: playing the title role of Scrooge in a film adaptation of Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol," then how can he be "best remembered for portraying the headmistress, Miss Fritton, in two of the St Trinian's film comedies, . . ."? Kostaki mou (talk) 01:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A memory doesn't have to be a celebration :)
Although I think every performance he gave was memorable, and celebrated -- SteveCrook (talk) 02:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine that in America it's Scrooge and in Britain it's Miss Fritton.

Daily Mail article[edit]

I'm wondering why recent allegations of sexual and social impropriety, taken largely from an article in the Daily Mail, of all things, is a valid "source". Especially bearing in mind the entire tone of the article, which seems to be a detailed attempt to paint him as a paeodophile. The article uses highly inflammatory language and makes some dubious allegations. I do not think this fetid piece of little England tittle-tattle is a valid source to quote. 80.1.186.148 (talk) 01:36, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing from the Daily Mail or from any other British newspaper should ever be taken as a valid source. They're all just scandal sheets and none of them are above making up a story for sensational purposes to sell a few more copies of their paper. The Daily Wail (aka the Daily Hate Mail) is the worst of the bunch of the national dailies. But do Wikipedia rules about quoting sources say anything about the reliability of that source? -- SteveCrook (talk) 12:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know to be honest, but I don't like the idea that the Mail's histrionic wording or allegations be incorporated into the article. It's a bit like spreading gossip at a very base level. I will remove the worst of it. Hardylane (talk) 18:36, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And more importantly, dead men can't sue for defamation, nor can their relatives.203.219.69.226 (talk) 22:59, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sim's paedophilia was very well known during his lifetime. I knew about it in the early 1950s. (92.4.12.161 (talk) 15:14, 5 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Citations? Or just wild speculation and gossip? -- SteveCrook (talk) 19:06, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sim's interest in underage boys was a well known fact at the height of his fame. (LoweRobinson (talk) 10:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Image[edit]

With help from User:Crisco 1492 I have uploaded three images that are in the public domain in the US, and thus can be used in this article:

But before they are suitable for use they all need attention (requested this morning) from the miracle workers at the Graphics Laboratory. Pending their availability I have left the existing fair use image in place temporarily: I hope this is not an unacceptable bending of the rules. Once the free images are usable this copyright image can be deleted from WP. Tim riley talk 13:14, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment[edit]

I notice that this article was recently much expanded and improved and have reassessed it as B-class. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Heinz[edit]

Oddly enough I was listening to Hancock's Half-hour this morning—the episode "The Impersonator"—which, so the BBC announcer informs me, Galton and Simpson wrote after hearing about Sim's court case against Heinz. Funny coincidental timing and all that... - SchroCat (talk) 08:53, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Educated at Heriots?[edit]

Spotted today that the categories described him as educated at George Heriot's - he also appeared on that school's list of alumni, and one or two non-English wikis seem to report the same information. It's not mentioned in the ODNB or in the body of the article, so I've removed it... but is there perhaps something more to this? Sim's later school years seem to be somewhat vague (when as much as where) and it's quite possible he moved around a bit. (He presumably had some post-14 education to make it to university by 1918) Andrew Gray (talk) 21:52, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is this serious?[edit]

"Of all Sim's film parts, perhaps the best remembered is, in The Belles of St Trinian's (1954)"

Is this a serious statement? Regarding Wikipedia, this reminds me of those insisting upon calling corn "maize," another absurd characterization. I’ve never even heard of The Belles of St Trinian's, and I think I’m far more representative of the general public than whomever is the apparent film aficionado who wrote this.

It's no coincidence that I'm writing this on December 25th. C'mon guys, get real. Let's change this or bah humbug to ye!HistoryBuff14 (talk) 21:29, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your suggestion for another candidate for the film role for which he is best known? Nothing else leaps immediately to mind. Merry Boxing Day (not a bank holiday in Scotland in Sim's day, irrelevantly). Tim riley talk 23:11, 25 December 2015 (UTC)No[reply]
I agree with HistoryBuff14. Not only is this unsourced, I would put Scrooge first. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tim, “Nothing else leaps immediately to mind?" Nothing else leaps immediately to mind! I can’t believe this. “Alastair Sim gives the performance of a lifetime” read one review of Scrooge. This classic—this masterpiece!—has run on numerous stations every year for decades! To say that Mr. Sim is not best remembered for his virtuoso performance as Scrooge is ludicrous. His version of this Christmas classic, written by one of the most illustrious literati in English history, is almost universally acknowledged as the best movie version ever. As for his most remembered role, seldom has an actor with the myriad credits that Mr. Sim had been so singularly identified with a role as is the case of Mr. Sim and Ebenezer Scrooge! Indeed, this is probably the only role the average person knows him from.
I want to change the article to simply reflect the obvious. Request for comment, please. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoryBuff14 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 26 December 2015‎ (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: After I wrote this, I saw that another editor removed the “perhaps best remembered for The Belles….” from the article, which I wholeheartedly endorse. However, I would like to add a bit more emphasis to Scrooge if no one objects. Thank you. HistoryBuff14 (talk) 16:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it's a matter of different perceptions in Britain and non-British countries. I don't think the average British film fan would think first of the Scrooge film if you mentioned Sim, but if it looms large to those in other countries there's no harm in mentioning it, I'd say. Tim riley talk 16:39, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tim, you mean that Scrooge isn’t as appreciated in Britain as it in the United States, for example? I never considered that. It seems odd that a British movie adaptation of a British classic would find a more receptive audience outside its native venue than within it. Odd, but possible, I suppose.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 18:53, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps a better way to think of it is Brotain we have a wider appreciation of Sim having seen more of his work, and his Scrooge is not the first thing that springs to mind when we think of him. We've probably also made or seen more versions of A Christmas Carol, and while Sim's performance was good, there are several other equally good (and possibly better) adaptations. – SchroCat (talk) 21:19, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Schro, Yes, I hadn't considered that perspective. Mr. Sim's work was certainly much better known in the U. K. than here which explains the divergence of opinion. However, I find your assertion that there have been one or more superior film adaptations of Dickens's timeless classic to be suspect! Thanks for your observations!HistoryBuff14 (talk) 22:00, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say "film": I said adaptations, which includes the Michael Hordern television version of c. 1975 or 76. I wouldn't be so fast as to dismiss other people's opinions on something unprovable as "suspect" – my opinion on the best Scrooge is as suspect or as 'unsuspect' as yours or anyone else's. – SchroCat (talk) 22:02, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tim, by way of P. S., I do not mean to imply that the masterpiece status of the 1951 version of this timeless classic rests entirely on the shoulders of Mr. Sim, though he was certainly its cornerstone. The entire cast, from substantive to bit players, were superb as was Mr. Hurst’s direction and the script writing . As far as I know, they were all British. If you are British, you should be proud to claim this gem as one of your own!HistoryBuff14 (talk) 19:06, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I may be quite wrong, and perhaps the Scrooge film is Sim's best known film over here; I don't think so, but am perfectly willing to be told I'm mistaken. Be that as it may, do seek out his glorious performance as both sister and brother in the St Trinians films. Changing the subject, he was the first Prospero I saw in The Tempest on stage, and was wonderfully funny in West End comedies when I was a young man four decades or so ago. Tim riley talk 21:28, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Tim, I shall certainly look for the series you recommend. I envy your having seen Mr. Sim on stage in a production of a play by your immortal bard!HistoryBuff14 (talk) 22:00, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Good wishes to all, and for my part I’m happy to go with Clarityfiend’s recent change to the article page. Historybuff, I’m sure you will be; @SchroCat:, do you concur? Thanks to everyone for a splendidly suitable and genial exchange of views. Tim riley talk 22:10, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tim, most assuredly I concur, both with the change and the general tenor of your comments! Schro (BTW, I’m most interested in quantum physics from the perspective of a (hopefully) intelligent layman), please pardon my usage of the term “suspect.” Evidently it has a harsher connotation in your mind than it did in the mind that wrote it in this instance. :) Happy New Year to all.…and may “God bless us, everyone!” (From the mouth of perhaps the sweetest tyke to ever appear In a movie!)HistoryBuff14 (talk) 22:23, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I am this very day marking my tenth anniversary as a Wikipedia contributor. There have been some editors over my ten years - happily not very many - who made life unpleasant by their attitudes or agendas and it is a treat on my decade-day to thank everyone here for such a comradely approach. Bless you! Tim riley talk 22:41, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Another possibility is to rephrase it as "one of the best remembered". I'd also like to, as HistoryBuff14 no doubt agrees, give Scrooge equal billing. The BFI's screenonline article on Scrooge states: "Although there will always be dispute over which is Alastair Sim's finest screen performance, there's little doubt as to which is the best known. His 1951 characterisation of Charles Dickens' notorious curmudgeon Ebenezer Scrooge is not only generally regarded as definitive, but is also the only one of his films to achieve wide circulation in America". Also note the title of Mark Simpson's book: Alastair Sim: The Star of Scrooge and the Belles of St Trinians. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:19, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, yes. I most wholeheartedly agree! Thank you, Clarity.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 14:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a bit more, reorganised and tidied up the citations. Tim riley talk 09:02, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The 1951 version of "Scrooge" was quite good, but Sim's performance is widely regarded as too comical and over-the-top today. Albert Finney was better in the 1970 musical version. (92.4.12.161 (talk) 15:15, 5 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Any citations? Or just wild speculation and gossip? -- SteveCrook (talk) 19:07, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thoroughly concur with Steve. We can just note this contribution and pass on, I think. Tim riley talk 22:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Too comical? I think the scene near the end where Scrooge finally accepts his nephew’s (his only close relative) invitation to dinner was one of the most poignant scenes in movie history! Every actor and every nuance of the scene was just perfect: from the maid’s initial astonishment to her nod of encouragement to her employer’s now sheepish uncle; to the nephew’s initial reaction and his wife’s after Scrooge’s belated and sincere apology; to the politic friend who calls for a polka to smooth over such an awkward moment. Just perfect! Sim’s transformation was radical yet totally believable. Mr. Finny, for all his skill, couldn’t touch that performance!HistoryBuff14 (talk) 17:43, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sim was quite talentless, his style of acting is too flamboyant and old-fashioned to be relevant today, which is why he is not remembered now. I don't think many people would agree about Sim being a better actor than Albert Finney. (LoweRobinson (talk) 10:39, 8 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Another contribution that I think we can safely note and pass on from. Tim riley talk 16:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think Sim is forgotten? Because he could only play one type of character. (LoweRobinson (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Lowe, do please read the rules, at the top of the page: "This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject". That is to say, your asseverations, above, whether wise or misguided, do not belong here. I see you are a recent joiner of Wikipedia, and if you refrain from throwing your weight around you will get a warm welcome. Our watchwords here are courtesy and collaboration. Best, Tim riley talk 18:03, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
LoweRobinson was by no means a recent joiner of Wikipedia. He was a sock of HarveyCarter. Now blocked. Scolaire (talk) 10:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Alastair Sim/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

References, but no citations for individual facts. Needs reorganization/wikification. Yksin 01:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 01:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:03, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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