Talk:2023 Dnipro residential building airstrike

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Times[edit]

There's a lot of exact times given which is very helpful - but the reader will need to know if these are local times or UTC. Good article. Cheers. Thelisteninghand (talk) 15:47, 15 January 2023 (UTC) @Yulia Romero: Hi, just noticed the article states the strike was on the 15th but it was on 14th. Cheers. Thelisteninghand (talk) 15:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Title[edit]

I'd rather have this article merged into 2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes however it is very long. I will note that this is not the first time Russia strikes civilian infrastructure in Dnipro since the start of the invasion. Since it's the first time in 2023, I've moved the article, but if more happen in this year, which I expect, we will need a move to January 2023 Dnipro residential building airstrike or 14 January 2023 Dnipro residential building airstrike (if another takes place in January). Super Ψ Dro 23:16, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good idea I think. I, for one, was not aware of that article, and perhaps neither was the author of this one. It begs a question I've put elsewhere - the documentation of the war in Ukraine on en.Wikipedia is like a catacomb and pages are not linked and there is no accessible "index" that I can find. The Battle of Bakhmut is not linked to Battle of Soledar for example. I contribute to 2022-2023 Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure which mentions this event also and links to it. There could be a page created I guess - maybe there is somewhere. It strikes me as a cross-referencing job for a bot. Any ideas, contributions, signposts??? Cheers. Thelisteninghand (talk) 22:24, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Two cite errors[edit]

Please correct them. Xx236 (talk) 07:59, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Propaganda[edit]

This entire article is based on Ukrainian war propaganda. Every single event alleged by this article as fact is disputed. The article is truly embarrassing for its lack of any critical value whatsoever. 2601:246:5500:7F40:448D:FEF6:F599:ED23 (talk) 06:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is disputed by Russian government liars. Their lies are already summarized in the article. Ymblanter (talk) 07:25, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dearest, please mention, where do you see Ukrainian "propaganda" in this article? Andrii Gladii (talk) 10:57, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting false propaganda that the ukrainians were unable to shoot these missiles down, when they have claimed in the past to shoot some of these missiles down: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3500319-enemy-fired-five-kh22-cruise-missiles-at-kyiv-general-staff.html

Not quoting the claims that it may have been shot down by their own air defense: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11643879/Zelensky-adviser-quits-saying-Russian-missile-killed-41-SHOT-Ukraine.html

Franfran2424 (talk) 11:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

False claim by Arestovich[edit]

[1] - Perhaps this claim and the story are notable, but do not they belong to page Oleksii Arestovych? They provide zero info about the airstrike. While commenting on the talk with Feygin, Arestovich always emphasizes that he comments simply as a private person, not as an official, and his views do not express views by the government. My very best wishes (talk) 03:38, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Arestovich is not some random Ukrainian guy. Many RS reported on what he said, and, for better or for worse, his claims have been widely used here: 2022 Chornobaivka attacks, Freedom of Russia Legion, Battle of Soledar, Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War, R-360 Neptune etc. etc.

Also, and more importantly, Arestovych's initial opinion might have been false, but it has been reported by RS which reported on the attack [2], [3]. Alaexis_¿question? 20:15, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he is not an ordinary guy, and yes, that was reported in multiple RS. But it simply belongs to another page because it provides zero info on the subject of this page, i.e. the strike. If it were a valid opinion that the missile was shot down by Ukrainian defenses, it could be included. But the guy withdraw his own comment saying he was mistaken. Why a misleading (and withdrawn!) claim should be included on this page? It may be "due" only on the page about Arestovich because it led to his resignation. My very best wishes (talk) 02:55, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is reported in the articles about the attack like the two I linked in my previous comment as a notable fact. Therefore this should be included in this article as well.

By the way, do we have non-Ukrainian sources which confirm that such rockets cannot be intercepted by the Ukrainian defences? If yes we should include it and then probably we don't need to mention Arestovich's words. For now we just have the statement of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence. Alaexis_¿question? 06:33, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, according to sources, his claim is not a notable fact, but an erroneous and withdrawn claim. A a self-admittedly erroneous claim by a person would typically belong only to a page about that person, if it belongs anywhere at all. My very best wishes (talk) 10:25, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources say that this is "an erroneous ... claim"? Other that the MoD of Ukraine. Alaexis_¿question? 15:27, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The person who made it, i.e. Arestovich himself. Which sources other than Arestovich make such claim? My very best wishes (talk) 21:40, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Filatov's words[edit]

Why was this removed? Filatov is not a low-level official, he's the mayor of Dnipro. The article already says that this strike is part of the infrastructure bombing campaign and Filatov's words explain the *possible* connection. Alaexis_¿question? 20:21, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That was not removed, but moved to a more appropriate section. This is just his personal speculation which is based on what? Something by a military expert with an explanation why they think that the intended target was the power plant would be different. My very best wishes (talk) 02:49, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As about "infrastructure", no, there is zero evidence at this point that the intended target was infrastructure. Civilians - yes, probably, simply because they were hit. My very best wishes (talk) 03:08, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, sorry, I missed it. Alaexis_¿question? 15:29, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Title 2[edit]

Hi everyone! Since this was the first and the only attack occurred to a residential building in Dnipro (hopefully the last), but not the only one (see: 2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes), IMHO, according to WP:CRYSTALBALL the page should be renamed Dnipro residential building airstrike of 14 January 2023 or Dnipro residential building missile strike of 14 January 2023. Suggestions? Nicola Romani (talk) 09:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adding word "missile" would be fine, but there was only one such strike in 2023. My very best wishes (talk) 21:41, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]