Talk:2019 Japanese imperial transition

Accession to throne, date

Naruhito will become Emperor of Japan, on April 30, 2019. His Era will begin on May 1, 2019. This is the case for all Japanese monarchs, as their era begins on the first -full day- of their reign. GoodDay (talk) 18:33, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

broadcast

Will May the 1st and october the 22nd be on broadcast? Steve92341 (talk) 15:32, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

"One-Off" Law (better wording?)

While the meaning of "one-off law" is obvious to me as an American English speaker, is it the most encylcopedic/legal description of a law that is "just for this one time" or can we think of a better phrase?KevinCuddeback (talk) 16:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Naruhito's accession date.

When exactly does Akihito abdicate & Naruhito ascend the throne? Sources seem to be giving different dates - abdication on April 30, 2019 & accession on May 1, 2019. Seeing as accession is automatic, does that mean abdication will occur at midnight? When does the new Era begin? Are the Accession & starting Era dates the same? GoodDay (talk) 20:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

All along the accession date has been announced as May 1, 2019, see e.g. this translated Asahi Shimbun story: [1]. Abdication date is April 30, 2019, and has been set for a while, see e.g. [2]. So, in simple terms, April 30 is the current emperor's last day at work, then everybody goes to bed and when they wake up, there's a new emperor. The new era technically begins on May 1, but expect a lot of systems to keep using Heisei for a while until they're updated. Bakazaka (talk) 20:41, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

So that means the emperor's abdication takes effect at midnight. I'm curious about the Era date, as Akihito's reign began on January 7, 1989 but his era began January 8, 1989. It just would help, if sources gave an exact time for these events clock-wise. GoodDay (talk) 21:11, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

My sense is that no one thinks it is important enough to mention, possibly because there are few practical situations that urgently require determining who the emperor is at, say, 11:47pm on the day of abdication, not least because abdication is so rare. Akihito's reign began the instant his father died. The new era could not begin the same day because Showa had still been alive that day, so the start date of the new era was the next day. Bakazaka (talk) 21:27, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

The the abdication must be going to take effect at midnight, then. Since the first Era date, can't be less then 24-hrs long. GoodDay (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of the specific time, the substantive edits you made recently are almost entirely incorrect according to reliable sources, including your move of the enthronement date from the (correct) October 22 to the (incorrect) May 1. Could you please self-revert? Bakazaka (talk) 22:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Restored the enthronement date to October 22, 2019. GoodDay (talk) 23:00, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• Abdication 30 April, Accession 1 May, no time - on the assumption that Bakazaka's reading of the sources is correct. Much of the discussion above is WP:OR based on a very modern Western notion of time - but such things need not be continuous. A day need not have a specific hour (or even be divided into hours) or minute. If you find a source saying this happens at 24:00 - Fine. Otherwise - it's perfectly fine from one to end on one day, and the other to being at another (and in some historic contexts, that are more complex than abdication, to even have a multi-day gap). Icewhiz (talk) 17:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Since 1867, succession to the imperial throne is automatic. GoodDay (talk) 21:19, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

You are assuming a very Western and very modern concept of time. Japan's "seasonal time system" works differently.[3][4][5]Icewhiz (talk) 16:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Why does Akihito's reign begin upon Hirohito death? GoodDay (talk) 16:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Why is a sudden death similar to an act of legislation of abdication? the jawiki entry on the crown prince (which seems to be actively edited) states 30 April an 1 May. Icewhiz (talk) 16:49, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

And here is a RS in English - BBC - "Mr Abe later met reporters briefly to announce that they had decided the emperor would step down on 30 April 2019. His abdication will mark the end of the Heisei era, and he would be immediately succeeded by his son Crown Prince Naruhito on 1 May, which would start a new imperial era.. Icewhiz (talk) 16:51, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

And considering the whole thing is set in motion by an official act of legislation - signed off by the Japanese cabinet - you could just read the ordinance/proclamation. If it says 30 April, 1 May without being specific about the time - then I would assume it is simply the emperor's prerogative - the emperor surely can set his own time standards. Icewhiz (talk) 16:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

So the abdication takes place at midnight, the very end of April 30. Thus the reason for Naruhito's reign beginning on May 1. GoodDay (talk) 16:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

An emperor's death or abdication brings that emperor's reign to an end & begins the new emperor's reign. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Absent a source spelling that out explicitly - that's WP:OR. For all we know, Japanese Imperial time works differently. Or the reign ends at an indeterminate time on 30 April, and begins at an indeterminate time at 1 May. If you want to rationalize it to yourself as midnight, using a particular notion of time, that's one thing - but absent a source, you can't state that in the article. Icewhiz (talk) 17:27, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

We'll have to disagree on whether there's a coming vacancy or not. GoodDay (talk) 18:00, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

This is so FRUSTRATING. We've got different dates, for the abdication & succession, which would indicate that the transfer occurs at midnight. Why are folks fighting against the automatic succession scenario? GoodDay (talk) 02:50, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

The easiest way to relieve the frustration would be to find a reliable source that explicitly says "the transfer occurs at midnight". Have you found one? Bakazaka (talk) 02:53, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

If Akihito is abdicating on APRIL 30 & Naruhito is ascending on MAY 1, then it's obvious that the abdication will happen at midnight - thus the different dates. GoodDay (talk) 02:56, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Does anybody have a source that proves the Imperial throne will become vacant upon Akihito's abdication & for how long it will remain vacant, until Naruhito's succession? If not? then Naruhito will become emperor immediately upon Akihito's abdication. GoodDay (talk) 03:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

This is clearly an WP:IDHT issue for you. But I'll try one more time: the succession happens whenever and however the actual people involved say it happens. That could be midnight. It could also be 12:01, or midnight Greenwich time, or dawn on the 1st. It's up to them. They write the rules. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, so if you want to report a specific time as fact then you need a reliable source reporting that specific time. If you have thoughts that you want to share with the Japanese Imperial Household Agency about this matter, scroll down to the bottom of this page [6] and click "Your opinion and comments". Bakazaka (talk) 03:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

None of you have provided a source, that says the method of succession has changed from immediate to allowing a brief vacancy. Nobody has offered a source, that time of succession differs from an emperor's death to an emperor's abdication. Anyways, I'm done with this article. GoodDay (talk) 03:18, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

We have provided sources for 30 April and 1 May. Your supposition that this occurs at midnight, based on a very modern notion of time, is perhaps correct - but it is WP:OR absent a source. Japanese days used to begin in dawn, and Emperors (and governments) can decide their own rules. I'll note that it would also be WP:OR for us (at present) to say the changeover does not occur in midnight - and entirely plausible hypothesis. At present, any conjecture on the time of abdication and subsequent accession is simply WP:OR. Icewhiz (talk) 06:35, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

It turns out I was correct about the abdication occurring at midnight Japanese time, hence the different dates. But would anybody listen to me? of course not. GoodDay (talk) 20:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Meaning of Kōshi.

Hi everyone, i think that i do not have the necessary knowledge to improve this article, so it would be positive if someone more capable could tell us about the meaning of Kōshi (皇嗣) because it's just mentions this, "a rank equivalent to the Crown Prince", so far, i have understand that Kōshi, (the future title of the prince Akishino), means either imperial heir or emperor's heir, without implying the notion of being the crown prince. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2806:10A6:12:456:9CEB:F961:E9B:D422 (talk) 01:09, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

GG of Australia is attending, Royal or world leader?

What it says on the tin. The Governor-General of Australia will be attending. https://www.facebook.com/GovernorGeneralAustralia/photos/a.131709860493631/1017950945202847/?type=1&theater Should he be listed in the Confirmed guests section?

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