Talk:2006 Malagasy coup attempt

Country

Which country is this referring to? It took me a complete read of the article, right to the links at the bottom of the page to realise which country this related to. Could some reference be made to the country in both the article, and also in the news item on the frontpage of WM? Just being picky! --Nunners 06:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The first "Malagasy" is linked to the Madagascar article though Mattlore 07:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? The country is mentioned in the title and the article opens with "The 2006 Malagasy coup d'état attempt occurred on November 18 in the lead-up to the December 3 2006 Malagasy presidential elections". If you're not familiar with the adjectival forms of country names and can't follow links, that's your problem. If this was, for example, a Danish coup attempt, would you expect us to twist the wording so that the exact word "Denmark" appeared? There's being picky and there's being downright asinine! 89.242.17.152 12:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry you think I am of questionable intelligence. I would actually class myself as of above average intelligence, but I had never heard of the adjective of Madagascar to be Malagasy - I've even been there, and never heard it said. I was purely trying to point out that to the average reader, there is not a direct readable correlation between Madagascar and Malagasy - where are English and England there is. If you don't feel it's an appropriate change, then don't make it, I was purely raising it as a possibility. --Nunners 12:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem at all. When I was creating the original stub I used Madagascan, but apparently Malagasy's the correct term. Huh. – Chacor 13:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Malagasy is the correct adjective for the people (it is also an ethnic group and a language, like German is for Germany.) However, not everyone is expected to know that. Are parentheses in order? Dunihav 19:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I decided to be bold, and changed the display text for the election wikilink. What do you think? Mdotley 19:26, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Created a redirect at 2006 Madagascan coup d'état attempt. Many people when given a country name like Madagascar, will automatically model the adjective on other examples, and try Madagascan. Carcharoth 13:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the articles back to Malagasy. "Madagascan" is WP:NEO and clearly violates policy.--Pharos 01:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

Is it acceptable in terms of NPOV to call it a coup attempt if Fidy denies this was the case? It certainly seems like a coup attempt, but it's hard to be neutral if you're disregarding the position of one side. Everyking 01:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fair because that's what almost all mainstream media reported it as. – Chacor 01:38, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't equate NPOV simply with what the mainstream media says (not at all, and actually a rather terrifying concept). And the mainstream media we are looking at probably does not reflect views in Madagascar itself; Fidy has now got the support of eight of the 14 presidential candidates, indicating many people take his version of the story seriously there. Besides, there seems to be a more cautious change in wording in the articles published after Fidy's denial. In my opinion, if one of the main actors in an event says something that our article denies is true, we're guilty of POV there. Now, a key problem here is that it's hard to figure out exactly what Fidy says was going on. Was he just trying to put pressure on Ravalomanana, rather than seize power outright? I also don't have any ideas for a better title right now. Everyking 02:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Just as an example of the caution I'm talking about, compare the two BBC articles we've used, one published before and one after the major events: the first calls it simply a coup move in the title, without quotations; the second calls it a "coup bid" in quotes in the title, and in the article itself prefaces the description with "apparent". Everyking 02:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed something else! In the first of those articles, the title has been changed since we first cited it: it now says "Madagascar general urges overthrow". It seems obvious this change was intended to reflect caution or uncertainty. Everyking 02:28, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree with your analysis. Please go ahead and change what is need, including moving the article to a more neutral title if needed. Carcharoth 02:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Before possibly moving the page, please consider this: a coup involves three distinguishing elements: (1) an illegal attempt to remove a government, (2) perpetrated by persons in the state apparatus, and (3) involving the threat or use of violence. The first two elements are clearly present in Fidy's actions; I'm more uncertain as to whether the third is. Also, although I do partially agree with your point that "if one of the main actors in an event says something that our article denies is true, we're guilty of POV there", consider cases where this need not be so ... genocide, state-perpetrated atrocities, human rights violations, etc. Perhaps the article should be left as it is for now until more details become available or new developments take place. It should (and does), of course, note that Fidy denies attempting a coup d'état. Btw, thanks for sourcing Fidy's "retired" status--I don't know why I couldn't find it at first. Black Falcon 19:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Point of pedantry related to the adjective discussion in the previous section above - I see that the country name on its own can be used as a sort of adjective. ie. Madagascar general vs. Malagasy general. I prefer the former as more accessible to more readers. Carcharoth 02:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand your view, but calling him a "Madagascar general" just seems grammatically incorrect. Would you call someone a "Brazil general" or an "England general" or a "Norway general"? Dunihav 05:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. It's not done like that. It is, indeed, used like that for "Democratic Republic of the Congo general election" and "Niger general election", but not in this case, as a widely-used demonym exists. —Nightstallion (?) 08:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Dead link

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