User talk:Clovermoss: Difference between revisions
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::::Don't worry I've spent over two years solidly working at fixing such errors, and sometimes I'm still stumped. -- LCU '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|ActivelyDisinterested]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]»'' °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°</small> 20:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC) |
::::Don't worry I've spent over two years solidly working at fixing such errors, and sometimes I'm still stumped. -- LCU '''[[User:ActivelyDisinterested|ActivelyDisinterested]]''' <small>''«[[User talk:ActivelyDisinterested|@]]»'' °[[Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested|∆t]]°</small> 20:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC) |
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==Holiday Greetings== |
==Holiday Greetings== |
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[[Image:Peace dove.svg|center|400px]]{{quotation|<center>'''Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.''' Happy Holidays to you and yours. Always a pleasure to see your [[User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections|Gathering]] grow as editors respond. I would be glad to assist, down the line, with anything you might decide to do. ―[[User:Buster7|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Buster7'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Buster7|<span style="color:#AAA;">☎</span>]] |
[[Image:Peace dove.svg|center|400px]]{{quotation|{{<center>1='''Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.''' Happy Holidays to you and yours. Always a pleasure to see your [[User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections|Gathering]] grow as editors respond. I would be glad to assist, down the line, with anything you might decide to do. ―[[User:Buster7|<span style="color:#775C57;">'''''Buster7'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Buster7|<span style="color:#AAA;">☎</span>]] }}}} |
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== Happy Holidays! == |
== Happy Holidays! == |
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:{{ping|TheresNoTime}} Is there some sort of deadline for that? I can try to write a better introduction before then. [[User:Clovermoss|<span style="color:darkorchid">Clovermoss</span><span style="color:green">🍀</span>]] [[User talk:Clovermoss|(talk)]] 16:01, 9 December 2023 (UTC) |
:{{ping|TheresNoTime}} Is there some sort of deadline for that? I can try to write a better introduction before then. [[User:Clovermoss|<span style="color:darkorchid">Clovermoss</span><span style="color:green">🍀</span>]] [[User talk:Clovermoss|(talk)]] 16:01, 9 December 2023 (UTC) |
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==Editor of the Week== |
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#606570" |'''Editor of the Week''' |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid lightgray" |Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as [[WP:Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]] in recognition of your great contributions! <span style="color:#a0a2a5">(courtesy of the [[WP:WER|<span style="color:#80c0ff">Wikipedia Editor Retention Project</span>]])</span> |
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[[User:Buster7]] submitted the following nomination for [[WP:Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]: |
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:Improving content within favored articles is a mainstay of WikiPedia editing. [[Regional Municipality of Niagara|Niagara Region]] and the history of [[Jehovah's Witnesses]] articles have flourished under the watchful eye of Editor Clovermoss. A 5 year veteran of WP, she works to reduce systemic bias in her usual kind and friendly manner. A valued member of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada]], [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ontario]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Jehovah's Witnesses]], she has almost 60% of her 20,000 edits to MainSpace. In late November of 2023 Clover bravely created an essay page, [[User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections]], asking editors to share their WikiPedia experiences. To date many dozens of veteran editors have responded, creating a vast treasure chest of experiences and ideas that will serve WikiPedia with valuable reflections of editorial history. This nomination seconded by [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] and [[user:theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] |
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You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week: |
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<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}</syntaxhighlight> |
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Thanks again for your efforts! [[User:Buster7|Buster7]] ([[User talk:Buster7|talk]]) 16:46, 9 December 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 06:26, 10 December 2023
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Confused about how to cite a reference? Watch this!
Software development challenges
Adding courtesy link to previous discussion User talk:Levivich/Archive 3 § Growth team Clovermoss (talk) 20:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
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I'm following up on your comment here, because it's not directly related to your main point (I haven't looked into the details of spending, but I'm certain software development can be done more effectively, because that's almost universally true). I can't comment much on the WMF's software project management, since I haven't followed it (though from what little I've seen regarding its interactions with the community, I do feel it can be improved). There are a lot of challenges to it, though. The MediaWiki developers strive to support a broad set of devices with different levels of technology and Internet connectivity, and users with different levels of knowledge and limitations. Every user has their own set of priorities on what they would like developed, and it's hard to figure out what features would satisfy the most people. Free software lacks the "will users pay for this?" filter to drive feature development. This isn't all bad, but it means there's less urgency to figure out future plans and to complete features. Taking talk pages as an example: they use the same wikitext markup as in articles (as I understand it, discussion used to just be held at the bottom of articles). Some editors are adamant about preserving this, so there's no difference in editing an article or a discussion. Many editors were understandably displeased by the WMF's attempt to develop an infinite-scrolling, threaded discussion forum interface, and are now very wary of changes. The talk pages project is trying to navigate a middle ground where incremental changes are layered on top of the wikitext conventions. When seeking input on MediaWiki on Wikipedia, you get feedback from a self-selected set of interested users, and there's no guarantee you'll get be able to get prolonged engagement from them to provide ongoing feedback. You can use telemetry (monitoring of user actions) to gain insight, and from things that WhatamIdoing have posted, it seems the development team looks at feature usage and editing patterns. You can use focus groups, but with a community as expansive and anonymous as Wikipedia's, it's hard to get a representative sample. There's also a significant portion of the community who think the WMF should provide the bare essential functions, and let the community develop everything else. Recall Levivich expressed his desire for a third-party Wikipedia editor to be developed (though as a competitor to the in-house provided editing interfaces). Numerous other editors think all visual editor development is a waste of time. In summary, I agree the WMF should try to do more to overcome the challenges it faces, but I acknowledge that the challenges are daunting and limit what can be done. isaacl (talk) 04:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
You stated what I was trying to explain a lot better than I could. People are capable of teaching themselves what Wikipedia is about but a lot of this information isn't easy to navigate. If you figure out how to do that, you have a good foundation. But there's a million little things that can kind of get in your way at the same time? If you don't edit somewhere more controversial, it's like your edits go into a void unless you actively seek input from others (which is what I did). If you don't do anything problematic you could basically go unnoticed for years if you fix a typo here and there occasionally, even if you may be interested in contributing more if you knew how. I had a similar experience with TVtropes, actually, now that I'm thinking of it. I was able to fix typos because that's something that was easy enough to fix but I never really did much beyond that because I couldn't figure out how CamelCase and everything else in their editing interface worked. You might find the previous discussion about new editor experiences that Levivich, HLHJ and I had here interesting [3]. I had an experience that was within what is suggested at welcome the newcomers. My understanding is that Levivich's wasn't as welcoming based off the comments there, although maybe they reflect on their experiences differently now? I can't speak for other people. My first edit was literally fixing a typo, but I was also really insistent on asking other people for advice right from the start. I'd say the main benefit my previous wikiHow experience had (apart from some familarity with MediaWiki format, even if it wasn't really enough to not get confused about many things here) is that I was aware that Wikipedia also likely had a community "behind the scenes". This meant I could ask for help before I did anything I was unsure of and I didn't really ruffle any feathers. A lack of feedback isn't nessecarily a good thing or a bad thing, but it can be disheartening and it can also lead to problems down the road. Maybe it's just me, but I'm still working on my confidence in that I actually know what I'm doing here and trying to alleviate some of the gaps on what I know I'm not that good at. I think part of this has to do with having really high expectations for myself in general, but at the same time even though I've spent a lot of time lurking/reading what other people say and trying to figure out what works here, actually doing things based on that judgement can get a bit more complicated. Clovermoss (talk) 03:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
Arbitrary break since this conversation is huge and still ongoing@MMiller (WMF): Thanks for getting back to me. I'm trying to take it easy on myself due to stressful real life events, but I do have some thoughts about what you just said. So... I think a generalization I've seen is that new editors experiences are either good, really bad, or just kind of apathetic. If you're doing something wrong, you're definitely going to get feedback because people are focused on minimizing harm or just keeping with established consensus that you might not be aware of because there's been however many discussions over the past two decades. I wasn't aware of MOS:CELESTIALBODIES until today when I was like "it's kind of weird that Sun is capitalized sometimes" and my change was undone. I didn't know that and it was a good faith mistake, but you're way more likely to have something like that happen if you don't even know that the MOS is a thing or how to reference it. There's also the whole "Wikipedia abbreviations" thing. We basically have a dedicated subculture where things can be a bit different than their standard English meanings or even inherently contradictory. A lot of the essay pages are like that too. They have a disclaimer that they can represent widespread or minitory viewpoints, but it's difficult to tell when you're reading them just where anything might fall on that. Then there's individual discretion on where to draw the lines. There's a million links to everything. I think something I have agreed with in regards to Sdkb is that streamlining welcome templates is a good idea because it gives people some sort of basis to be like "this is what you do" that doesn't contradict itself or give you massive walls of text that prompt you to TLDR. I think there's also just some general issues with banner blindness too. A lot of stuff about the Wikipedia community and editing and everything (especially on the main page) is hidden by things that you basically instinctually ignore if you grew up in the world where the Internet was a thing. You pay the same amount of attention to them as you do to pop-up ads... something that's just not worth your time and doesn't even register. Like I'm looking at the bottom of this very page and I'm like "oh there's this toolbar with characters like → I just straight up ignored for years". There's also a lot of issues with the mobile version of the website. I'm like Cullen328 in the "when I edit on my phone (like right now) I use desktop view for basic functionality" way. Going back to my good efforts disappear into a void comment earlier on in the thread, the impact feature that's in the growth newsletter seems like an interesting step in the right direction of doing something to help mitigate that. As for wikilinks and images... it might help with some familiarity with wikitext, but there's still a lot of uphill climbs from there. There's also stuff like MOS:REPEATLINK that might have the outcome of newcomer tasks like that kind of backfire. Unless I'm misunderstanding how that task works. I think that while our attention on retaining new editors needs to be improved we also need to give more attention to intermediate editors too, since imo they're the most likely to stick around. Not everyone is interested in making editing Wikipedia their main hobby and that's okay. I do think trying to create some sort of stepping stone with newcomer tasks like that in general is a good idea, though. Clovermoss (talk) 01:05, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
Wow this is a varied discussion! Attempt to contribute:
But you know, the one thing I could do for retention... I should go do that, I've had it on my mulling-over list for far too long. Off-topic pre-scriptum: While I don't use "cult" ontologically, I do have a mental category for "religion that mandates (substantial) financial contributions and practices shunning". Fairly objective criteria, and they have a lot of social correlates. HLHJ (talk) 04:04, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Evaluating semi-automated first interactions@MMiller (WMF), are there any stats on retention rates as a function of which templates are posted to a new user's talk page? If some uw templates have higher retention rates than others for extrinsic reasons (like they fail to explain to the editor what they need to do or come off as plain rude), then fixing them would be a very low-effort way of improving retention. If the data exists, I'll volunteer to code the templates by traits and run some analysis. Broader stats on what semi-automated first interactions are most helpful and repellent would also be useful. HLHJ (talk) 20:34, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
Mobile app editing example@JTanner (WMF): Thank you for getting back to me. Your confusion about what exactly I was referring to, is in my mind, a good example about what I mean about how can there can be a disconnect between the WMF and the broader community of editors. So the issue isn't that I can't see diffs, it's that I can't copy the links to them. Ask any experienced editor on why this is important, like Levivich, and you'll get lengthy answers, I'm sure. The gist is that it's important for communication. If you want to start a talk page discussion because you were reverted on an edit you made to an article, it's standard to link a diff to the changes you tried to make. If you ever start a thread at WP:ANI, you're expected to provide diffs. They're very important. This [9] is an example of what I want to be able to do. As for the problem being my phone, I was able to type all this on the desktop version of the app just fine without that issue, so I'm disinclined to believe that's the reason. Or maybe the desktop version of the site has already figured out how to mitigate that response? But I did want to say that I appreciate your reply. I think more open communication can do a lot of good and I know you're trying to make the mobile experience better. Clovermoss (talk) 23:28, 8 August 2022 (UTC), edited 23:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
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Yet another break in this massive discussion
@JTanner (WMF): So I downloaded the beta version of the app but I haven't done anything with it yet. Right now I have both the normal app and the beta one... will that cause issues going forward? I'll try to test what you suggested sometime this weekend. I also think it'd be a good idea to compare the two versions of the app if I'm able to.
I still get the option to thank IPs in diffs even though the phabricator ticket has been marked as resolved? Is that just because whatever your team did to fix the issue hasn't been released yet or because something is going wrong on my end? Clovermoss (talk) 11:49, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- Hey there @Clovermoss, having both versions of the app shouldn't cause any issues. In the Beta version of the app you shouldn't have an option to thank an IP editors anymore, that update to the production version of the app should've went through a few hours ago. Have you updated the production version of the app in the last 12 hours? Also test it out in Beta because for sure the change is there. Thank you for dedicating so much time to giving feedback and testing things out. It is really appreciated and helpful! JTanner (WMF) (talk) 19:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): So I made sure I had downloaded the latest update from the app store for the production version and everything seems to be fine so far. I was able to type this reply at a normal speed and not letter by letter, so that's a good sign. I'll let you know if anything changes. Something else I noticed lately is that the "more" option to edit a page in its entirety doesn't show up until I click a section, at least on user talk pages. I'm not sure if maybe this is something that should be showing up as an option but isn't? I see some options for both (with or without clicking a specific section), just not for this. Thoughts? I also noticed that the section below this one kept changing size, that didn't happen before. I can email you a video of what exactly is happening there if you think that would be useful. Clovermoss (talk) 03:12, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Hey there @Clovermoss, how are you doing?!
- Apologies for the gap in time, I had some life changes where my hours were a little constrained.
- "the "more" option to edit a page in its entirety doesn't show up until I click a section" - So we didn't make topic level of the talk pages editable, as you correctly pointed out, when you choose a topic on a talk page you can edit the source. Does this feel rather limiting? I ask so that we can create a feature request task to capture this.
- "I also noticed that the section below this one kept changing size, that didn't happen before. I can email you a video of what exactly is happening there if you think that would be useful" - Yes it would be helpful to have a video to see the change you're experiencing so that we can properly replicate and diagnose what is happening there
- JTanner (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- The option to thank IPs in diffs has also gone away. So the update seemed to fix that. Thanks! Clovermoss (talk) 16:10, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've noticed some other issues lately. The overlapping text issue is worse and not just appearing in lists or maybe I'm just noticing it more. If I click my edits and view them, I see the ones from Commons but get an error message about the page not existing if I click on it. Which makes sense because this is the Wikipedia app but maybe the error message could be changed or only local contributions could be shown? This feature might work better if someone regularly contributes to different language wikipedias, though, since you can switch between language versions while browsing? Another thing is that in regards to my watchlist, the default setting is to show changes made by me, too. I'm not sure if there's a way to change this like in my settings or something because on desktop edits made by yourself are automatically hidden and I'd prefer that to be the default option. Clovermoss (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Clovermoss
- "The overlapping text issue is worse" - Is what you are experiencing, you start typing in the editor and the letters are not being captured fast enough so it is jumbling? Or is overlapping happening in the review or something else? It would be helpful to see a screenshot for more information
- "I see the ones from Commons but get an error message about the page not existing if I click on it" Are you clicking on the commons contribution from watchlist in the production version of the app? I am going to come back with a ticket, because I see other issues related to contributions made not showing up
- "watchlist, the default setting is to show changes made by me, too. I'm not sure if there's a way to change this like in my settings or something because on desktop edits made by yourself are automatically hidden and I'd prefer that to be the default option"- I will discuss this one with the team today and based on the conversation I'll make a ticket and share it with you
- JTanner (WMF) (talk) 15:54, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Clovermoss
- @JTanner (WMF): Another thing I noticed lately is that it's impossible for me to see diffs that other people link. The spot where they would be is a blank space. I notice that the same thing happens with external links. Clovermoss (talk) 20:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Clovermoss: Tried investigating this a bit and could see diff links when posting it on a talk page. When clicking on the link it did however take me into Mobile Web view which I'll bring up with the team today. I tested in dark mode on the latest production version of the app. Are you seeing a different behavior than this? JTanner (WMF) (talk) 16:01, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF) It's okay. I figured you were just really busy and that's why it was taking awhile. As for diffs, I don't see them on talk pages at all. It's literally a blank space where they should be. I can take some side-by-side screenshots if that would be helpful (one in edit mode where you can see the link to the diff and then when you're not able to see it at all). I'll try to do that video within the next few days. I've been really busy this week trying to catch up on things I should've done last week. Clovermoss (talk) 20:31, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): Another thing I've noticed lately is that every time I try to edit a page like AfDs, RfDs, MfD, etc, it causes the app to crash. I'm assuming you'll want a video of that too when I can get around to it? To your question about the production version of the app, yes that's what I'm referring to. I still have the beta version downloaded but I haven't really done much with it yet. Clovermoss (talk) 01:13, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've sent an email showing the AfDs causing the app to crash issue, I still need to get around to a video example of the other issue. I've also noticed that the app in general has been crashing more lately, but with AfDs and other XfD-related venues it's an always thing. It happens the second you alter anything, you can view and even scroll in edit mode relatively fine before that point. Clovermoss (talk) 00:45, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): There seems to have been an update recently. The general experience of the app is better, I like it :) There's still some things that could do with improvement, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate your dedication to making things better. Did you recieve the video I sent to you? It's okay if you're still investigating the issue, I just wanted to make sure you actually have access to it. Something else I noticed lately is that diffs differ between IPs/registered users. For a registered user, you have the thank button and then undo. For an IP, you have a rollback button and that's it. I'm not sure how this would appear to someone without the rollback permission, but it makes me a bit uneasy because there isn't a visual difference between the two and they're in the relatively same spot. You can still undo IP edits if you click the three buttons at the top and go through the options there but I just think it'd be better if the undo formatting was more consistent regardless of who made the edit. Your thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clovermoss (talk • contribs)
- @Clovermoss: Tried investigating this a bit and could see diff links when posting it on a talk page. When clicking on the link it did however take me into Mobile Web view which I'll bring up with the team today. I tested in dark mode on the latest production version of the app. Are you seeing a different behavior than this? JTanner (WMF) (talk) 16:01, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've noticed some other issues lately. The overlapping text issue is worse and not just appearing in lists or maybe I'm just noticing it more. If I click my edits and view them, I see the ones from Commons but get an error message about the page not existing if I click on it. Which makes sense because this is the Wikipedia app but maybe the error message could be changed or only local contributions could be shown? This feature might work better if someone regularly contributes to different language wikipedias, though, since you can switch between language versions while browsing? Another thing is that in regards to my watchlist, the default setting is to show changes made by me, too. I'm not sure if there's a way to change this like in my settings or something because on desktop edits made by yourself are automatically hidden and I'd prefer that to be the default option. Clovermoss (talk) 20:56, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): So I made sure I had downloaded the latest update from the app store for the production version and everything seems to be fine so far. I was able to type this reply at a normal speed and not letter by letter, so that's a good sign. I'll let you know if anything changes. Something else I noticed lately is that the "more" option to edit a page in its entirety doesn't show up until I click a section, at least on user talk pages. I'm not sure if maybe this is something that should be showing up as an option but isn't? I see some options for both (with or without clicking a specific section), just not for this. Thoughts? I also noticed that the section below this one kept changing size, that didn't happen before. I can email you a video of what exactly is happening there if you think that would be useful. Clovermoss (talk) 03:12, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Late 2022 and early 2023
Hi JTanner (WMF), it's been awhile since we talked. I recently noticed that my most recent comment wasn't signed so you likely didn't get the ping/notification about my comment here. Did you get a chance to see the video I sent you of the app crashing whenever I tried to participate in an AfD? The issue seems to be resolved with the latest update so that's good at least. I admit I'm curious about the why, though. Do you think you might be able to explain it me? I think I'd find it fascinating. Anyways, how have you been? Anything exciting your team has been working on? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
- @Clovermoss!! Hi how are you?! I hope you are well. I am doing well, catching up on some things, I was out then a bunch of folks on the team have been in and out. I think with it getting cold in some parts of the world the weather is getting to some of us. I did miss the ping! So thanks for pinging me again. We've made some updates to the editor recently including improving the syntax highlighting, making adding an image from Commons easier, and added the option to copy the link to a diff in a way where even if it doesn't appear in the bottom sheet, it is still accessible. You can see all of the tasks via this link. The engineers are doing some less visible changes right now to improve overall performance while we research what anti-vandalism tools we could bring into the apps. We are learning from tools that were created by volunteers and discussions about the pros and cons of those tools. If you have ideas related to anti-vandalism definitely feel free to contribute on the task, soon we will create a MediaWiki project page about it. Were you able to make the video about the diffs/are you still experiencing that challenge? Thank you for sending the video over about the AfD bug, our lead engineer @DBrant (WMF) actually fixed it, he's going to share more details of how he was able to fix the bug.
- Regarding the diff view and rollback this is really helpful to know, let me share the rationale and tell me what you think. Since we know that IPs can't be thanked, the logic of the code hides the thanks button for IP edits. We felt it was deceiving to show a Thanks button for IP edits only for it to fail, especially after your helpful observation. For someone who who does not have rollback permissions they'll see Thanks and Undo for Registered Users Edits and for IP edits they'll just see undo. We tried putting Rollback, Undo and Thanks all in one are of the screen but it was really crowded and we wanted to be mindful of phones that have small screens so we hid undo in the overflow menu for folks that have rollback permissions. As someone that uses the app and have rollback permissions, would you have preferred seeing undo and clicking the overflow menu for rollback or a different variation? I can imagine the configuration moving being confusing.
- But I am thrilled to hear that you feel the app is better overall, and you like it, this news has made my week! If there are other things you've noticed or do notice please keep sending it our way so we can continue to improve the app. When our Designer is back on Android we are planning to make some updates to make sure we are keeping up with the requirements from the Google Play Store but also revisit some of the things you surfaced earlier.
- Look forward to hearing how you're doing! JTanner (WMF) (talk) 19:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- Hey there @Clovermoss, nice to meet you.
- That crash didn't really have to do with participating in an AfD discussion, but rather with the native wikitext editing interface itself, regardless of which article is edited. The crash occurred when putting the cursor all the way at the bottom of the text and pressing Enter.
- When building our native app, we care about squeezing every bit of performance from the Android platform, so that features like editing could be more responsive and usable than the web interface. This often involves some complex logic and system-level optimizations. And although we do as much testing as we can, the occasional crash can sometimes slip through. If you're curious, this is the exact change that fixed the crash. Interestingly, it was a single incorrect character of code that was causing the crash, not even a single line. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- Nice to meet you as well DBrant (WMF). Thanks for the explanation. I'm trying to learn more about how stuff like this even works and it's surprising to find out that one character being wrong can cause this kind of problem. I didn't even notice the scale of it but it makes sense looking back that I only noticed the issue there. I don't mess around with stuff like categories that much, I'd typically use the reply button on talk pages, etc. I'm glad it's fixed now, though. Thanks for following up on that. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 08:29, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@JTanner (WMF): It's nice to hear from you again as well. Honestly it's no surprise you didn't get my ping because I forgot to sign my comment. Not something that happens very often but it is something that causes pings to fail (see Help:Notifications). The reply tool must have spoiled my habit of remembering the four tildes. Anyways, it really is nice to hear from you again, I'm seriously ecstatic each and every time.
In regards to the undo/rollback/thank setup, I don't think putting rollback on the overflow menu is nessecarily the best idea because usually the advantage of rollback compared to a regular undo is the speed of it. On the other hand, people worry about accidently using the tool when they don't want to. People will sometimes customize their watchlist on desktop to get rid of rollback for this reason (see Wikipedia:Customizing watchlists#Remove or modify the rollback link). That was my main concern with the variance in the button placement on whether you're reverting an IP or another registered user as it's possible that mistakes are more likely to happen that way. I understand your point about how having everything together would be crowded, though. Maybe some way of customizing it in settings would be helpful? Or making the buttons vertical instead of horizontal? Something like 'undo' and 'rollback' for IPs and 'thanks', 'undo' and 'rollback' for registered users? That way, if someone accidently presses something, it's more likely to be undo instead of rollback.
I have no idea how realistic my ideas might be though. I'll think a bit more about how countervandalism might work better on the app. Personally I have a hard time seeing how it would work well without some way of being able to view recent changes like you can on the regular mobile version of the wesbite or on desktop view. I'm assuming that there's a reason this hasn't been done on the app already yet, likely it would cause some sort of performance issue? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 10:02, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've also emailed you the video about the overlapping text issue I mentioned to you before. I kept forgetting to actually demonstrate it but your comment reminded me that was something I needed to do. Hopefully it's helpful to understanding what is going on. I used my talk page as an example because I noticed that it's more likely to happen on pages with substantial content but it also happens when you're editing an article too. But I think the video has a few good examples of what it can look like and how line breaks that involve weird cursor movement can kind of fix it. In the future, would you prefer it if I emailed any videos I notice of technical issues to DBrant (WMF)? I emailed you because that's what I did the last time but if it'd save some time I can email him directly. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
- You're very welcome to direct any technical issues (regarding the app) to me. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 02:49, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF) Thanks. I will wait to see what JTanner (WMF) has to say in regards to her opinion on what's best as well, but in the meantime, I have pinged you to an app-related technical issue at the Teahouse. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
- JTanner (WMF) By the way, I noticed that the 'views' button isn't statically zero at all times anymore so that seems to be working now, too. I also wanted to say that I'm open to doing something like a video call like what's mentioned here [11], only in regards to mobile editing and all that. It's just that there's a few things that I have found difficult to express in my essay and in a way it's easier to just kind of demonstrate what I mean? I feel like I'd be more useful with some of my observations that way. If you're not comfortable with that, I'd understand, I'm just throwing it out there as an option. I promise to be polite and courteous, if that helps. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
- You're very welcome to direct any technical issues (regarding the app) to me. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 02:49, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
DBrant (WMF) and JTanner (WMF); I hope you've both had a good holiday season. Heads up, a version of my essay is going to be published in the December edition of the Signpost. Current version is here: Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-01-01/Essay. If there's anything you want to say, let me know. I hope you feel like I've been fair. I really do appreciate that you've listened to my feedback and I hope this doesn't get in the way of that. I'm still planning on using the app and seeing how it gets better over time :) I even have a new phone (haven't used it yet but it might be interesting to see potential differences). Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 05:54, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
- Hey there @Clovermoss how are you??!! I returned this week after being out for a few weeks. I was able to get some things with my health under control, and wow what a wonderful way to jump back in.
- Your Signpost is outstanding. Thank you for writing such an insightful recap of our interactions and sparking really great conversation. I've had both the Android and iOS teams read it this week and we all found it incredibly helpful and have circulated it with other colleagues that work on Mobile Web. I believe you were more than fair and an amazing contributor to our team (I hope it isn't overreaching to say it feels you are a part of the team). You posting your honest feedback would never impact our collaboration.
- Congrats on the new phone, what model is it?
- To get back to some of your questions and thoughts here, I'm happy to answer any questions, often the "why does this existing thing work this way" that may feel like a bug and not a feature I lean quite heavily on @DBrant (WMF) if I don't immediately know the answer. He's deep in the code base and one the most expert level engineers at WMF so he'd be able to answer those questions (if it is related to Android) faster at times since he is the one I may go to to ask. For the "why doesn't this feature exist, or can we change or add those features" I'm 100% your person. DBrant also answers the "how hard is it to do this technically" questions and I'm the other half of the pie of "when can it be prioritized" or "is it not prioritized for a specific reason". I hope this all makes sense!
- Thanks for this feedback on Thanks vs. Undo vs. Rollback. I made a task (T326894) so I can work with the team designer to rethink the implementation of this. I made you a subscriber so you can see a few proposals of changes and give us feedback as we think it through.
- We are exploring some designs around a recent changes view for anti-vandalism but also comparing it to more advanced volunteer created tools like twinkle and huggle. I hope to tag you on those in a few weeks to hear your thoughts. Are you still seeing the overlapping issue by the way?
- Its like you read my mind about the video call. Our Community Relations Specialist @ARamadan-WMF is going to post on signpost and propose a few touch points and see what you and others interested in apps prefer. Amongst the choices is a monthly or quarterly video call amongst other options. We can do one or a mix of whatever you all find most interesting but either way, I'd love to have a video call and connect synchronously. JTanner (WMF) (talk) 00:12, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): It's nice to hear from you again. I hope your health issues have been getting better and the new year has been off to a relatively good start. I got a Pixel 6a. I wanted a better phone camera and it seemed to be leagues above my current phone so that's what I went with. I'm glad my feedback/Signpost article feels fair. I've always appreciated your continued discussions with me and I didn't want that to change.
- I've seen the emails for updates on the phabricator tickets and it's always nice to see that your team is working on trying to make things better. As I said earlier, I'm open to a video call, whether it's more of a one-on-one thing or in a group. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi JTanner (WMF) and DBrant (WMF). So when pages I create show up on my watchlist on the app... I noticed something that's a bit weird. Specifically, when redirects have been reviewed. It doesn't really say what the change actually is in my watchlist but I get a notification about it. But I tend to check the redirects on desktop immediately afterwards because even though there's an invisible diff so-to-speak, there's a + or - bytes. Even if the person who reviewed the page hasn't edited it at all and it's just me. It's really quite bizzare. Here's some examples: Chimeral variegation – my watchlist shows that Ozzie10aaaa added 179 bytes [12], Moss wrack – my watchlist shows that SunDawn removed 15 bytes [13], Hardenburg's burrfish – a removal of 268 bytes [14]? I've only ever observed this issue on the app and it's confusing. I can give more examples if it'd be helpful. I'd also be curious to understand the why behind what is actually going on here, too. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 21:46, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hey there! Hope you're having a great year, and thanks as always for using the app and letting us know your observations. It looks like you've uncovered a genuine bug (I've created a Phab task: phab:T328453). In the case of watchlist events that are not actual "edits", such as page curation logs, there's no concept of a diff, and therefore the number of bytes modified becomes undefined. And yet, our native component that shows watchlist events always assumes that there must be a byte count, so it takes a byte count from an undefined source. At first glance it looks like it's taking the byte count from another random item in the list of watchlist events, which... it should not be doing! Anyway, the task I linked will fix this issue, as well as improve the appearance/behavior of watchlist items that are not plain old edits. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 16:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks DBrant (WMF) for taking a look. Random items from the rest of the watchlist seems like a reasonable explanation for what's going on... I spent a while trying to figure out if maybe there was some pattern and I just couldn't.
- JTanner (WMF) Thanks for subscribing me to the relevant phabricator ticket. I really do appreciate every time you do so. I forgot about what you said the last time about how DBrant is more for technical issues and you specialize more on brainstorming/explaining how things work way. Would you prefer it if I didn't ping you on obvious technical issues like this in the future or is it okay to keep pinging you both to guarentee more eyes? I also noticed that you mentioned that someone else was going to do something regarding the Signpost piece. I didn't see them comment there – maybe they reached out to people individually or just haven't got around do doing anything like that yet? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi JTanner (WMF). I think this would count as a feature request, so I'm pinging you. I think I mentioned this before but I'm not sure if anything happened beyond investigating how pageviews on the watchlist worked? Or perhaps I'm misremembering/misunderstanding what happened before. What I'm getting at is that as someone who alternates between the app and desktop editing, it'd be nice if I could have some way of marking changes on my watchlist as read on the app (or automatically updating this) so when I'm looking at my desktop watchlist it is more relevant to me. Or is this something that I should try adding to the chorewheel that ARamadan-WMF has mentioned? Maybe that would be the more appropriate venue for something like this? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:29, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hello @Clovermoss, I created a ticket on Phab. to investigate this issue and added you as a subscriber; here's the link you can follow. ARamadan-WMF (talk) 12:03, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): I'm not sure if this would fall under phab:T315347 or if it should be its own seperate phabricator ticket, but I noticed that there's another circumstance where redlinks show up as blue links. Specifically, if you're looking at replies on a user talk page. [15] That link was actually blue which worked well for the joke, but it shouldn't have actually happened. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 08:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- Another valid observation, filed at phab:T331299. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 15:14, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): I found another one, I think! So I get an error code when trying to look at Talk:2023 Hamburg shooting on my watchlist, specifically "Empty list doesn't contain element at index 0". I'm not sure what that means, but I can provide a screenshot of the error if that helps. If I had to guess, it's likely a result of the article being moved a few times. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 07:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Acknowledged and reproduced! Some of our watchlist and diff handling code seems to be too dependent on page titles, when it should be dependent on page ids. When we attempt to get a diff of a revision that has been moved (based on the page title), it fails, but if we use the page id, it will work. (phab:T332173) DBrant (WMF) (talk) 14:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): The app has been behaving very strangely lately. The best way I could describe it is that it's acting as if I'm logged in and logged out at the same time. I plan to email you a video of what exactly is happening. Could you please look into it? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 09:19, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks; I've reviewed the video, but I'm not seeing any unusual behavior on our test devices. It's possible this was a temporary glitch on the server side that was producing errors. Is it still behaving this way now? DBrant (WMF) (talk) 11:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF) No, it stopped. I've seen some of the similar weirdness before but never all of those issues together. Do you want me to keep track of the dates and times I experience anything unusual? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- Sure, any additional details would be helpful, although the thing that helps us the most is steps that are consistently reproducible. In this kind of case the possible causes are too broad to attempt to track down without more data. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 13:56, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- DBrant (WMF) So with this morning, the only thing I did was open the app. That's the only thing I can think of in regards to what might have caused it, which doesn't really narrow anything down. Before today, the only thing weird I really saw happen was my watchlist occasionally telling me that I needed to login (while being logged in). Typically, waiting a few minutes and refreshing a few times would make that go away. The other issues (e.g. saying I only have 400 contributions on the homepage, etc) were completely new. I'll keep you updated if I notice anything that you might find useful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 15:26, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- Sure, any additional details would be helpful, although the thing that helps us the most is steps that are consistently reproducible. In this kind of case the possible causes are too broad to attempt to track down without more data. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 13:56, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF) No, it stopped. I've seen some of the similar weirdness before but never all of those issues together. Do you want me to keep track of the dates and times I experience anything unusual? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks; I've reviewed the video, but I'm not seeing any unusual behavior on our test devices. It's possible this was a temporary glitch on the server side that was producing errors. Is it still behaving this way now? DBrant (WMF) (talk) 11:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): I found another one, I think! So I get an error code when trying to look at Talk:2023 Hamburg shooting on my watchlist, specifically "Empty list doesn't contain element at index 0". I'm not sure what that means, but I can provide a screenshot of the error if that helps. If I had to guess, it's likely a result of the article being moved a few times. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 07:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
- Another valid observation, filed at phab:T331299. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 15:14, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): I'm not sure if this would fall under phab:T315347 or if it should be its own seperate phabricator ticket, but I noticed that there's another circumstance where redlinks show up as blue links. Specifically, if you're looking at replies on a user talk page. [15] That link was actually blue which worked well for the joke, but it shouldn't have actually happened. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 08:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
@DBrant (WMF): This morning I noticed that whenever I tried to edit a specific section of something in the Wikipedia namespace on the app, it would prompt me to edit the next section and not the one that I was actually trying to edit. I tried it a few times so I'm certain it's not a misclick on my end. I'm not sure why this happens or if it's a broader issue, but I thought I'd let you know. The page in question is ~300,000 bytes and I've noticed before that sometimes things act weirdly when trying to edit large pages, so maybe that has something to do with it? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've done more experimenting with this specific technical issue. So far, I've only experienced it at WP:ANI and WP:AN. I've tried other random pages that are huge byte-wise both inside and outside the Wikipedia namespace but haven't had much luck replicating this issue elswhere? When it does happen on a page, it happens consistently. I can keep you updated if I notice it elsewhere as time goes on. Hopefully you'll be able to find out what's causing this? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:09, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
- @JTanner (WMF): I've noticed another technical issue. If you try to search for a specific user's userpage and it's a global one, it's impossible to see it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Hi again, and sorry for the delay — Yes indeed, searching within the app will only search your current language wiki, so if a user doesn't have a userpage on that wiki, it won't find anything. (And even if it was able to find a global userpage (presumably on meta wiki) the app wouldn't display it because it's not on a
wikipedia.org
domain.) DBrant (WMF) (talk) 12:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)- @DBrant (WMF) Thanks for getting back to me. There was one other thing that came up since the last time we talked if you scroll up a bit. Your thoughts on that issue would be appreciated. I was also wondering if you're aware of when the next office hours for the app are? I'd like to attend again whenever they're happening. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we're aware of that issue as well, but the cause of the problem is way upstream from the app. The short answer is that certain pages (outside the Main namespace) that transclude a lot of various templates seem to throw off our server-side parsing logic, but we're working on it. And really, the proper solution will be to treat pages like WP:ANI as a "talk page" and present it in our native Talk interface, as we do with user talk pages. As for the next office hours, I'll defer to @JTanner (WMF) or @ARamadan-WMF. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 20:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF) Thanks for all you and everybody on the team does. I know you mostly hear from me when I'm complaining about something but my experience with the app has gotten drastically better over time and I recognize that I'm likely an outlier when it comes to a lot of the stuff I try to do with it. So I just wanted to reiterate that I appreciate my feedback actually being listened to.
- The only other potential issue that immediately comes to mind right now is the view counter that shows up on the homepage. It very rarely displays a number other than 0. Maybe something is going on there? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:30, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, @Clovermoss,
- I will ensure that you receive the necessary information regarding our upcoming office hour scheduled for September. ARamadan-WMF (talk) 11:58, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, we're aware of that issue as well, but the cause of the problem is way upstream from the app. The short answer is that certain pages (outside the Main namespace) that transclude a lot of various templates seem to throw off our server-side parsing logic, but we're working on it. And really, the proper solution will be to treat pages like WP:ANI as a "talk page" and present it in our native Talk interface, as we do with user talk pages. As for the next office hours, I'll defer to @JTanner (WMF) or @ARamadan-WMF. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 20:39, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF) Thanks for getting back to me. There was one other thing that came up since the last time we talked if you scroll up a bit. Your thoughts on that issue would be appreciated. I was also wondering if you're aware of when the next office hours for the app are? I'd like to attend again whenever they're happening. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
- Hi again, and sorry for the delay — Yes indeed, searching within the app will only search your current language wiki, so if a user doesn't have a userpage on that wiki, it won't find anything. (And even if it was able to find a global userpage (presumably on meta wiki) the app wouldn't display it because it's not on a
- @JTanner (WMF): I've noticed another technical issue. If you try to search for a specific user's userpage and it's a global one, it's impossible to see it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Mid to late 2023
Hi DBrant (WMF). I just wanted to say that I noticed barnstars are actually somewhat visible through the app now and I appreciate the change. It's always cool to see progress as it happens! Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:06, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): I also wanted to say I appreciate the feature of being able to search my watchlist. Maybe it's a setting I haven't been able to see elsewhere that does exist but it seems unique to the app. It's really cool. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
- DBrant (WMF) I just emailed you a video of another technical issue I noticed. I don't know the best way to explain it but using bold text can cause the app to act weird in a relatively predictable way and it doesn't stop unless you just get rid of the bold text. Hopefully you can figure out what's going on there. I hope you've been doing well lately. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): If you were able to figure out what was going on after I sent the video, would you be able to explain it to me? I'm curious even if I don't always completely understand the why. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- When we perform syntax highlighting, we only parse the current viewport of the wikitext you're looking at. This is for performance purposes -- if we were to perform real-time syntax highlighting on the entire wikitext, especially if it's a larger article, it would become sluggish. The downside of this approach is that there can sometimes be edge cases where the end of a syntax block appears near the top of the viewport, but we parse it as the beginning of a syntax block. If you look closely at the top of your video, there is a triple-quote
'''
which is really the end of a bold block from further up, but we're assuming it's the beginning of a bold block, so when you type another triple-quote further down, the whole thing gets parsed as bold. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 15 August 2023 (UTC)- @DBrant (WMF): Thanks for explaining that. :) I was also wondering why the pageviews on the homepage almost always says 0? I remember one occassion months ago where it briefly said otherwise but 99% of the time it's stuck at zero which doesn't seem right when I'm editing highly visible pages. It's a bit of a confusing metric. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed that the pageviews number is confusing, and the whole "Edits" stats screen is on our queue to be overhauled at some point. The number of pageviews actually refers only to articles whose Wikidata description you've edited. This is a holdover from the early days of the Edits screen, when it was called the Suggested Edits screen, and when the only type of suggested edit was Wikidata descriptions. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 19:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, I agree that's a good thing to overhaul at some point. While we're both online at about the same time, I was wondering if anything has been planned for the September meeting? Like a date being set? It's mid-August and I haven't heard anything yet so I just want to make sure I haven't missed anything. I expect my September to be fairly busy so a bit of a heads up ahead of time would be useful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- Agreed that the pageviews number is confusing, and the whole "Edits" stats screen is on our queue to be overhauled at some point. The number of pageviews actually refers only to articles whose Wikidata description you've edited. This is a holdover from the early days of the Edits screen, when it was called the Suggested Edits screen, and when the only type of suggested edit was Wikidata descriptions. DBrant (WMF) (talk) 19:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): Thanks for explaining that. :) I was also wondering why the pageviews on the homepage almost always says 0? I remember one occassion months ago where it briefly said otherwise but 99% of the time it's stuck at zero which doesn't seem right when I'm editing highly visible pages. It's a bit of a confusing metric. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- When we perform syntax highlighting, we only parse the current viewport of the wikitext you're looking at. This is for performance purposes -- if we were to perform real-time syntax highlighting on the entire wikitext, especially if it's a larger article, it would become sluggish. The downside of this approach is that there can sometimes be edge cases where the end of a syntax block appears near the top of the viewport, but we parse it as the beginning of a syntax block. If you look closely at the top of your video, there is a triple-quote
- @DBrant (WMF): If you were able to figure out what was going on after I sent the video, would you be able to explain it to me? I'm curious even if I don't always completely understand the why. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- DBrant (WMF) I just emailed you a video of another technical issue I noticed. I don't know the best way to explain it but using bold text can cause the app to act weird in a relatively predictable way and it doesn't stop unless you just get rid of the bold text. Hopefully you can figure out what's going on there. I hope you've been doing well lately. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Hey DBrant (WMF). I found another issue that comes from a notification when I get thanked for editing a redirect page. I'm about to email a video of that to you too. Hopefully it helps. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:04, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
- A long-standing task: phab:T68480 DBrant (WMF) (talk) 11:36, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
- @DBrant (WMF): Thanks for letting me know. It's good that I'm not always the only one to notice these things. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:37, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
@ARamadan-WMF: Remember how I said I wanted to show you and Jazmin something that may be useful in regards to the upcoming antivandalism feature at the office hours? There was a particular situation I was thinking of in that moment but I incorrectly remembered what template I was having issues with at the time [16][17]. In that one, the substituted template creates its own heading and since you can't insert a template on the app without a subject line on a redlinked page (because you're forced to use the new thread feature) you end up with two. This isn't a problem if a talk page is already created (as it's possible to just edit the entire page). Anyways, I am going to send that email soon showing a recording of something else that might be of use to the app's team. I kind of showed the switch from the app to desktop mode on browser that happens when I revert someone. It's somewhat convoluted and might be helpful in implementing that new antivandalism feature you're working on. Implementing Wikipedia:User warnings as some sort of option in the saved messages thing would probably be what the average Wikipedian would look for first, at least on enwiki. While I definitely write personal messages for people sometimes (especially if the issue is more complex), by definition, actual vandalism tends to be fairly straightforward to deal with. More personalized messages are more useful when someone is editing in good faith and not merely writing stuff like this. Hopefully my feedback here is useful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:49, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you, @Clovermoss, this has been definitely helpful; I created this ticket T350583 with what you mentioned, and I added you as a subscriber. ARamadan-WMF (talk) 14:19, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: I'm glad that this was helpful feedback. I noticed something else just now that might be useful to know about. There isn't a "watch" option for templates while you're on the app. Sometimes templates have changes (e.g. Template:Centralized discussion) so it would be useful to watch pages like that without having to switch to desktop. Thanks, Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:44, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
- Please check our software engineer reply to you, here on Pah.
- And the second feature suggestion is now in a ticket and will be triagged during the next week.
- You're always welcome to share your thoughts and ideas! ARamadan-WMF (talk) 13:05, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: Thanks for letting me know! I didn't really have wifi for most of the past week so I'm somewhat behind on things. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, again!
- You can find the update of your second suggestion here, in the ticket on Phabricator. ARamadan-WMF (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: I noticed that. JTanner (WMF) subscribes me to phabricator tickets so I get emails about them when they're updated, even if I don't always comment directly on them. Thank you for going out of your way to let me know though, I appreciate the sentiment behind the action. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: Thanks for letting me know! I didn't really have wifi for most of the past week so I'm somewhat behind on things. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: I'm glad that this was helpful feedback. I noticed something else just now that might be useful to know about. There isn't a "watch" option for templates while you're on the app. Sometimes templates have changes (e.g. Template:Centralized discussion) so it would be useful to watch pages like that without having to switch to desktop. Thanks, Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:44, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 16 September 2023
- In the media: "Just flirting", going Dutch and Shapps for the defence?
- Obituary: Nosebagbear
- Featured content: Catching up
- Traffic report: Some of it's magic, some of it's tragic
I hope you feel better soon
Going on walks in nature is a great idea. We have good weather here probably for the next few weeks, I hope it is not too smoky where you are. (t · c) buidhe 20:44, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you Buidhe. Yeah, spending a lot of time in nature tends to make me feel grounded, for lack of a better term. I spent a good chunk of 2021 taking 8 hour walks in the forest all the time. It's been a bit cold the past few days but nothing a sweater can't fix. I also haven't dealt with wildfires affecting the air quality super recently which is nice because I like not coughing when I go outside. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 06:45, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Women in Green GA Editathon October 2023 - Around the World in 31 Days
Hello Clovermoss:
WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long Good Article Edit-a-thon event in October 2023!
Running from October 1 to 31, 2023, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) edit-a-thon event with the theme Around the World in 31 Days! All experience levels welcome. Never worked on a GA project before? We'll teach you how to get started. Or maybe you're an old hand at GAs – we'd love to have you involved! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to women and women's works (e.g., books, films) during the event period. We hope to collectively cover article subjects from at least 31 countries (or broader international articles) by month's end. GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to earn a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.
We hope to see you there!
Alanna the Brave (talk) 00:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
You are receiving this message as a member of the WikiProject Women in Green. You can remove yourself from receiving notifications here.
New pages patrol newsletter
Hello Clovermoss,
Backlog update: At the time of this message, there are 11,300 articles and 15,600 redirects awaiting review. This is the highest backlog in a long time. Please help out by doing additional reviews!
October backlog elimination drive: A one-month backlog drive for October will start in one week! Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Articles will earn 4x as many points compared to redirects. You can sign up here.
PageTriage code upgrades: Upgrades to the PageTriage code, initiated by the NPP open letter in 2022 and actioned by the WMF Moderator Tools Team in 2023, are ongoing. More information can be found here. As part of this work, the Special:NewPagesFeed now has a new version in beta! The update leaves the NewPagesFeed appearance and function mostly identical to the old one, but updates the underlying code, making it easier to maintain and helping make sure the extension is not decommissioned due to maintenance issues in the future. You can try out the new Special:NewPagesFeed here - it will replace the current version soon.
Notability tip: Professors can meet WP:PROF #1 by having their academic papers be widely cited by their peers. When reviewing professor articles, it is a good idea to find their Google Scholar or Scopus profile and take a look at their h-index and number of citations. As a very rough rule of thumb, for most fields, articles on people with a h-index of twenty or more, a first-authored paper with more than a thousand citations, or multiple papers each with more than a hundred citations are likely to be kept at AfD.
Reviewing tip: If you would like like a second opinion on your reviews or simply want another new page reviewer by your side when patrolling, we recommend pair reviewing! This is where two reviewers use Discord voice chat and screen sharing to communicate with each other while reviewing the same article simultaneously. This is a great way to learn and transfer knowledge.
Reminders:
- You can access live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord.
- Consider adding the project discussion page to your watchlist.
- To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red October 2023
Women in Red October 2023, Vol 9, Iss 10, Nos 251, 252, 284, 285, 286
See also
Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
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--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:51, 29 September 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
TheWikiWizard - September 2023
Hello, Clovermoss! Here is the September 2023 for the TheWikiWizard!
Wiki(p/m)edia News
- On the EN Wikipedia, there were 4 successful RFAs between the period of July and September! Congrats to the candidates! Also on Simple English Wikipedia, they had 1 successful RFA in August!
- For those wondering why you were unable to edit for a period of time on 20th September, there was a server testing going on. You can follow the link to read more. We will always inform you here if one of these kinds of tests is going to take place, or has taken place. You can also head on over to the Meta Wiki main page, information on these kinds of tests will always be displayed there.
- Did you know you that Wikimedia Commons has monthly photo challenges? You can check out more here!
- The USA has viewed Wikipedia 4 Billion times in August!
- The Talysh Wikipedia was recently created!
Humor
- It's almost fall again! (or is it already?) Don't fall on fallen leaves!
- One moment it's raining, the next its too hot. Welcome to fall!
Editor's Notes
- Quite a bit has happened since our last issue! Thanks for your patience during our gap of inactivity between issues!
- Thank you for reading TWW!
- Like this Issue? Got Feedback? Spot a mistake? Discuss this issue here
To change your subscription, or to subscribe click Here.
See you again in the next issue! --つがる Talk to つがる:) 🍁 15:54, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
This issue was sent to you by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 15:56, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
Help
Hello. Help improvements for acticle Akane Yamaguchi. Thanks you. 113.161.210.125 (talk) 02:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hi there, I appreciate you reaching out to me, but I think it'd be a good idea to stop posting a similar message on several other talk pages at about the same time [18]. It tends to take at least a few minutes for people to get back to you, so please be patient. If you have suggestions for improving that article specifically, I would start a section at Talk:Akane Yamaguchi explaining the changes you would make and citing reliable sources. You can't edit the page directly as it is protected. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:16, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 3 October 2023
- News and notes: Wikimedia Endowment financial statement published
- Recent research: Readers prefer ChatGPT over Wikipedia; concerns about limiting "anyone can edit" principle "may be overstated"
- Featured content: By your logic,
- Poetry: "The Sight"
Growth team newsletter #28
Welcome to the twenty-eighth newsletter from the Growth team! Help with translations
Community configuration 2.0
- Community Configuration 2.0 is a feature that will enable Wikimedia communities to easily customize and configure features to meet their unique needs. This approach provides non-technical moderators with more independence and control over enabling/disabling and customizing features for their communities.
- Technical approach and associated tasks are detailed in this Epic task on Phabricator.
- Initial designs are drafted for two different approaches (see images). We will soon demo interactive prototypes to interested admins, stewards, and experienced editors (T346109). Please let us know if you have feedback on the design approach, or want to participate in prototype testing.
IP Masking
- The Growth team has been working on several updates to ensure Growth maintained features will be compatible with future IP Masking changes. This work has included code changes to: Recent Changes (T343322), Echo notifications (T333531), the Thanks extension (T345679) and Mentorship (T341390).
- Before December, the Growth team will initiate community discussions with the goal of migrating communities from Flow to DiscussionTools. This move aims to minimize the necessity for additional engineering work to make Flow compatible with IP Masking. (T346108)
Mentorship
- We assembled some resources for mentors at Mediawiki wiki. This resource page is translatable and will be linked from the mentor dashboard.
- We are working to resolve a bug related to mentors properly returning after being marked as "Away". (T347024)
- Half of newcomers at English Wikipedia get a mentor assigned to them. To ensure every newcomer receives mentorship, we need additional volunteer mentors at English Wikipedia to achieve a 100% coverage rate. We also encourage experienced users from other wikis to help newcomers at their own community.
Scaling Growth features
- We continue the deployment of the structured task "add a link" to all Wikipedias. We plan to scale the task to all Wikipedias that have link suggestions available by the end of 2023.
- We plan to scale the new Impact Module to all Wikipedias soon, but first we are investigating a bug with the job that refreshes the Impact Module data. (T344428)
- At some wikis, newcomers have access to the "add an image" structured task. This task suggests images that may be relevant to add to unillustrated articles. Newcomers at these wikis can now add images to unillustrated articles sections. (T345940) The wikis that have this task are listed under "Images recommendations" at the Growth team deployment table.
Other news
- We disabled the “add an image” task temporarily (T345188) because there was a failure in the image suggestions pipeline (T345141). This is now fixed.
- You can read a report about the Growth team’s representation at Wikimania in Singapore here. Growth team members presented two sessions at Wikimania Singapore.
- After a 2.5 years-long collaboration with Bangala Wikipedia, we have decided to start a collaboration with another wiki. Swahili Wikipedia is now a pilot wiki for Growth experiments.
Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
Trizek_(WMF) Talk 23:16, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Wikimedia apps newsletter – October 2023
Revealing What's Inside the Fourth Edition of the Wikipedia Mobile Apps Newsletter!
Discover the latest updates, improvements, and new content in our newsletter, ensuring you stay informed for an enhanced mobile Wikipedia experience.
iOS
From the end of August to October 2023
- The iOS suggested edits feature, originally successful on Android, is now being developed for iOS. This expansion aligns with the Product & Technology organization's goals for the 2023–2024 fiscal year, with a specific target of increasing mobile contributions by 10% without reversion. This move responds to the growing demand for a similar content creation and maintenance tool on Apple devices.
- The team released 7.4.1 in August, which included:
- The ability to Undo and Rollback edits on Diff Pages!
- The addition of Tachelhit Language Wiki.
- We also improved language variants for Chinese and Serbian languages.
- In October, 7.4.2 was released, which included the following:
- Watchlist on iOS: We've heard your requests! You can now access your Watchlist through Settings → Account → Watchlist. Add new items to your Watchlist via the new overflow menu in the Article View. Take actions on edits by clicking a username on the Watchlist view, or take actions like "Thank" on the diff screen of an edit in your list.
- Article Section Sharing: Want to send someone to a specific section in an article? Click a section in the table of contents and then click "Share" via the article overflow menu.
- Bug Fixes to ensure you can swipe without the app freezing and that the navigation bar doesn't shrink or disappear.
Thank you for volunteering developers Serguitar, jhsoby, agray, Nikki, TiagoLubiana.dijkstra.and revolter for their contributions to this release.
Android
From the end of August to October 2023
- The team is actively working on reinstating the nearby feature due to the high volume of requests we've received. You can find comprehensive tracking details for this effort on Phabricator T347201.
- We have released the Image Recommendation feature to the Wikipedia Beta.
- We have been working on developing the Patroller Tasks, and most of the screens have passed the design reviews.
- Bug fixes and minor improvements:
- Fixed possible crashes on Android 14 devices.
- Fixed some view styles related to the Material Design, which includes toolbar and dialog.
- Introduced more text-highlighted features to the search results across the app.
- Introduced the Wikitext keyboard support to the talk page interfaces.
Community meetings
We would like to invite you to an online meeting with the mobile apps team. It will take place on the 27th of October at 5 p.m. UTC (check your zone’s exact time).
The host will be Jazmin Tanner, the product manager of the apps team, with a number of our software engineers; you can join the meeting.
Feel free to share your questions and thoughts about Wikipedia’s mobile apps on the Wikimedia Apps/Office Hours page on mediawiki.org. We would love to hear from you. The last date to add your input will be on the 24th of October at 12:00 UTC. If you'd like a one-day reminder before the meeting, simply add your username on the same link, and we'll send you one.
We will be waiting for you all!
And you can subscribe to this newsletter.
-- ARamadan-WMF 09:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- @ARamadan-WMF: I plan to be there. Just a heads up that the hyperlink for subscribing to this newsletter is a redlink. I'd also suggest that Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) would be a better place to post updates for the app than my essay from Janurary. I keep it on my watchlist but I don't think a lot of people look for updates regarding the app to be there. I've been posting sections at Village Pump about this and the previous meeting for the app, so I'd figure it'd be a good idea to tell you about that hub if you weren't aware of it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:24, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 23 October 2023
- News and notes: Where have all the administrators gone?
- In the media: Thirst traps, the fastest loading sites on the web, and the original collaborative writing
- Gallery: Before and After: Why you don't need to know how to restore images to make massive improvements
- Featured content: Yo, ho! Blow the man down!
- Traffic report: The calm and the storm
- News from Diff: Sawtpedia: Giving a Voice to Wikipedia Using QR Codes
Women in Red - November 2023
Women in Red November 2023, Vol 9, Iss 11, Nos 251, 252, 287, 288, 289
See also Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
|
--Lajmmoore (talk) 08:21, 26 October 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
November Articles for creation backlog drive
Hello Clovermoss:
WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.
You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.
Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.
October 2023 NPP backlog drive – Points award
The Reviewer Barnstar | ||
This award is given to Clovermoss for collecting more than 50 points during the October 2023 NPP backlog drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to the drive! Hey man im josh (talk) 01:55, 1 November 2023 (UTC) |
WikiCup 2023 November newsletter
The WikiCup is a marathon rather than a sprint and all those reaching the final round have been involved in the competition for the last ten months, improving Wikipedia vastly during the process. After all this hard work, BeanieFan11 has emerged as the 2023 winner and the WikiCup Champion. The finalists this year were:-
- BeanieFan11 with 2582 points
- Thebiguglyalien with 1615 points
- Epicgenius with 1518 points
- MyCatIsAChonk with 1012 points
- BennyOnTheLoose with 974 points
- AirshipJungleman29 with 673 points
- Sammi Brie with 520 points
- Unlimitedlead with 5 points
Congratulations to everyone who participated in this year's WikiCup, whether they made it to the final round or not, and particular congratulations to the newcomers to the competition, some of whom did very well. Wikipedia has benefitted greatly from the quality creations, expansions and improvements made, and the numerous reviews performed. All those who reached the final round will win awards. The following special awards will be made based on high performance in particular areas of content creation and review. Awards will be handed out in the next few days.
- Unlimitedlead wins the featured article prize, for 7 FAs in total including 3 in round 2.
- MyCatIsAChonk wins the featured list prize, for 5 FLs in total.
- Lee Vilenski wins the featured topic prize, for a 6-article featured topic in round 4.
- MyCatIsAChonk wins the featured picture prize, for 6 FPs in total.
- BeanieFan11 wins the good article prize, for 75 GAs in total, including 61 in the final round.
- Epicgenius wins the good topic prize, for a 41-article good topic in the final round.
- LunaEatsTuna wins the GA reviewer prize, for 70 GA reviews in round 1.
- MyCatIsAChonk wins the FA reviewer prize, for 66 FA reviews in the final round.
- Epicgenius wins the DYK prize, for 49 did you know articles in total.
- Muboshgu wins the ITN prize, for 46 in the news articles in total.
The WikiCup has run every year since 2007. With the 2023 contest now concluded, I will be standing down as a judge due to real life commitments, so I hope that another editor will take over running the competition. Please get in touch if you are interested. Next year's competition will hopefully begin on 1 January 2024. You are invited to sign up to participate in the contest; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors. It only remains to congratulate our worthy winners once again and thank all participants for their involvement! (If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send.) Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 6 November 2023
- Arbitration report: Admin bewilderingly unmasks self as sockpuppet of other admin who was extremely banned in 2015
- In the media: UK shadow chancellor accused of ripping off WP articles for book, Wikipedians accused of being dicks by a rich man
- Opinion: An open letter to Elon Musk
- WikiCup report: The WikiCup 2023
- News from Wiki Ed: Equity lists on Wikipedia
- Recent research: How English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades
- Featured content: Like putting a golf course in a historic site.
- Traffic report: Cricket jumpscare
WikiProject Canada 10,000 Challenge seventh anniversary
The Bronze Maple Leaf Award | ||
This maple leaf is awarded to Clovermoss for creating and expanding articles related to St. Catharines, Ontario, during the seventh year of The 10,000 Challenge of WikiProject Canada. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Reidgreg (talk) 14:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC) |
The Signpost: 20 November 2023
- In the media: Propaganda and photos, lunatics and a lunar backup
- News and notes: Update on Wikimedia's financial health
- Traffic report: If it bleeds, it leads
- Recent research: Canceling disputes as the real function of ArbCom
- Wikimania: Wikimania 2024 scholarships
Women in Red December 2023
Women in Red December 2023, Vol 9, Iss 12, Nos 251, 252, 290, 291, 292
Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
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--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Question from Gegrah (12:38, 28 November 2023)
How many edits do I need to browse edits automatically? --Gegrah (talk) 12:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Gegrah Hi, I admit I'm a bit confused by your question. Could you give me more context on what you're trying to do? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 12:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I would like to jump over the next level of Wikipedia creation. I would like to know how many edits is required. Gegrah (talk) 16:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Gegrah: I'm sorry but it's still somewhat unclear what exactly you're asking. There isn't really a "next level of Wikipedia creation". There's very few things on Wikipedia that require a certain amount of edits, these situations are explained at Wikipedia:User access levels#User groups.
- If you're looking to learn basic editing skills, maybe you'd like to try Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Adventure? It is like an interactive tutorial. I'll also leave a message on your talk page with other links you might find helpful. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:37, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I would like to jump over the next level of Wikipedia creation. I would like to know how many edits is required. Gegrah (talk) 16:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) @Gegrah: are you referring to AutoWikiBrowser? HouseBlastertalk 04:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Original Barnstar | |
Really interesting project you're working on at User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections! Really valuable to gather perspectives. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC) |
- I came here to give a barnstar myself, so I'll just second this! It's really interesting to have all these reflections all together, and I think it will be a helpful resource for improving our understanding of the newcomer experience among folks who ultimately go on to become successful experienced editors. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello
Hi, and nice meeting you recently. On the way back we stopped off at Niagara Falls (I had never seen the falls before, the Horseshoe could engulf 10 American falls and have room along the edge for the other one whose name escapes me). Have thought about doing a navbox about the Falls (at a leisurely pace) and wondering if you have either planned to do one or would check it out for accuracy and missing details. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk)
- @Randy Kryn: It was nice to meet you and wbm1058. As for navboxes, I was actually thinking about making one for Niagara Falls, Ontario. I was thinking of making something like Template:St. Catharines. If you feel like taking a go at it, feel free to do so :) I can check for accuracy or we could just work on it together. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn: Bridal Veil Falls (Niagara Falls). You're right. I thought it was just part of the American Falls but it does have a separate name and identity. Nice to meet you too, Clovermoss. wbm1058 (talk) 21:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wonder if that infobox should include the New York side as well. Kinda interesting transborder agglomeration. (also concur with others here; was nice to meet you in Toronto) Elli (talk | contribs) 21:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Elli That was one of the reasons I made my first template St. Catharines because I wasn't sure if a template for Niagara Falls should be city specific or cross international borders like the falls themselves. While I'm incredibly familiar with the Canadian side, I've never actually been to the American side. It's kind of funny because sometimes I chill out at Niagara Glen where I'll look across the river and say "there's New York" or I'll walk right up to the Rainbow Bridge just to look at the hilarious sign at the pedestrian crossing that says "Stairs to the USA". I do think the cities are different enough and have enough of their own history to each have their own separate template, maybe with a bit of overlap in regards to the waterfalls? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- there's certainly quite a bit of difference; the Canadian side is more touristy and well-off while the American side had more of an industrial economy and a decent amount of urban decline. Can certainly see a case for separate templates, but on the other hand, would a single merged template be too large? Not sure what would serve readers best. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:53, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- A single template could get pretty huge, especially once I get around to actually creating/improving a lot of the content about the Canadian side. As I say on my userpage, one of my longer-term goals. It's always kind of surprised me that a place as famous as Niagara Falls has such content gaps, but maybe I'm a bit biased there. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:00, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- It's surprised me a bit as well. Though I'm also somewhat biased of course. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wonderfalls was a wonderful television series for the popular culture section, just the right mix of reality, human culture, and mysticism to capture my viewing habits. Yes, Clovermoss, the reason I asked if you planned a future template is because you have the knowledge and caring for such an endeavor. Please take the lead on this. The navbox I'd envisioned was solely about the actual Falls, which would include the Falls (with the Canadian side listed first, American second, and the Bridal Veil leftover - which would be the major attraction anywhere else - third), islands, river, the whirlpool, history, electrical use, attractions, popular culture (there are a couple nice articles on paintings), and the like, which would give a fairly mid-size template with an image of the Canadian side on the template. "See a quarter, pick it up". Thanks for the above thoughts and ideas. And it would probably mean you'd have to venture to the American side and its islands at least once to scout it out for the navbox (a grand reason to explore). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn: Hmm, maybe we could do the template equivalent of what's going on with Niagara Falls-related articles? There's Niagara Falls for the waterfalls themselves, Niagara Falls, Ontario, for the Canadian city and Niagara Falls, New York, for the American one. I've started Template:Niagara Falls for the waterfalls and related notable places/concepts. Then we could have seperate navboxes for the cities themselves? It's possible we could have it all in one giant navbox, I suppose. I plan to make all this a bit more useable but I need to take a break and I can only sit still at my computer for so long. I'll make the difference between shared, U.S-only, and Canada-only more distinct at some point. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 13:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Nice work! I'll play with it a bit this morning (i.e. the paintings, and probably Horseshoe Falls should be first in the section by due weight - one strength of navboxes is they don't have to be alphabetical). Thanks, may the water continue to flow towards the sea. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Randy Kryn: Hmm, maybe we could do the template equivalent of what's going on with Niagara Falls-related articles? There's Niagara Falls for the waterfalls themselves, Niagara Falls, Ontario, for the Canadian city and Niagara Falls, New York, for the American one. I've started Template:Niagara Falls for the waterfalls and related notable places/concepts. Then we could have seperate navboxes for the cities themselves? It's possible we could have it all in one giant navbox, I suppose. I plan to make all this a bit more useable but I need to take a break and I can only sit still at my computer for so long. I'll make the difference between shared, U.S-only, and Canada-only more distinct at some point. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 13:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wonderfalls was a wonderful television series for the popular culture section, just the right mix of reality, human culture, and mysticism to capture my viewing habits. Yes, Clovermoss, the reason I asked if you planned a future template is because you have the knowledge and caring for such an endeavor. Please take the lead on this. The navbox I'd envisioned was solely about the actual Falls, which would include the Falls (with the Canadian side listed first, American second, and the Bridal Veil leftover - which would be the major attraction anywhere else - third), islands, river, the whirlpool, history, electrical use, attractions, popular culture (there are a couple nice articles on paintings), and the like, which would give a fairly mid-size template with an image of the Canadian side on the template. "See a quarter, pick it up". Thanks for the above thoughts and ideas. And it would probably mean you'd have to venture to the American side and its islands at least once to scout it out for the navbox (a grand reason to explore). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- It's surprised me a bit as well. Though I'm also somewhat biased of course. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- A single template could get pretty huge, especially once I get around to actually creating/improving a lot of the content about the Canadian side. As I say on my userpage, one of my longer-term goals. It's always kind of surprised me that a place as famous as Niagara Falls has such content gaps, but maybe I'm a bit biased there. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:00, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- there's certainly quite a bit of difference; the Canadian side is more touristy and well-off while the American side had more of an industrial economy and a decent amount of urban decline. Can certainly see a case for separate templates, but on the other hand, would a single merged template be too large? Not sure what would serve readers best. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:53, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Elli That was one of the reasons I made my first template St. Catharines because I wasn't sure if a template for Niagara Falls should be city specific or cross international borders like the falls themselves. While I'm incredibly familiar with the Canadian side, I've never actually been to the American side. It's kind of funny because sometimes I chill out at Niagara Glen where I'll look across the river and say "there's New York" or I'll walk right up to the Rainbow Bridge just to look at the hilarious sign at the pedestrian crossing that says "Stairs to the USA". I do think the cities are different enough and have enough of their own history to each have their own separate template, maybe with a bit of overlap in regards to the waterfalls? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
@Randy Kryn: I saw that you were busy improving the template while I was asleep! Thanks for doing that. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- You're very welcome. You created a very good foundation to work from, so my few additions were just catching up with some extra articles and a bit of rearranging. Nice work on expanding the entries. I was hoping there would be a page on that giant boulder sitting in between the American Falls and the Canadian side. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hi again, I've been puttering around with the navbox and other Falls pages, and wanted to thank you again for turning my attention to the Wonderfalls series. Have been re-watching the episodes on youtube, still like it a lot and am newly impressed with the quality of its writing and storylines. At some point, probably after re-watching all 13 episodes, I'll add to its plot language. Happy holidays to you and yours. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- File:Follow Stairs to USA.jpg @Randy Kryn: This is the sign I was talking about earlier in the thread. I really do like it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hi again, I've been puttering around with the navbox and other Falls pages, and wanted to thank you again for turning my attention to the Wonderfalls series. Have been re-watching the episodes on youtube, still like it a lot and am newly impressed with the quality of its writing and storylines. At some point, probably after re-watching all 13 episodes, I'll add to its plot language. Happy holidays to you and yours. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Growth team newsletter #29
Welcome to the twenty-ninth newsletter from the Growth team! Help with translations
Community Conversations
The Growth team will host its first community conversation Monday, 4 December (19:00 - 20:30 UTC). The topic for this meeting will be Mentorship.
This first meeting language will be English, but we plan to host conversations in other languages, and about other topics. Please visit the conversation page on-wiki for the details on how to join. You can also watch the page, or suggest ideas for upcoming conversations there.
Impact Module
At the beginning of November 2023, the Growth team deployed the New Impact Module to all Wikipedias. We recently released a follow up improvement to how edit data was displayed based on editor feedback. [19]
Add a Link
We released “add a link” to 35 more Wikipedias. [20] [21]
We have a few Wikipedias remaining:
- German and English Wikipedia will be contacted at the beginning of January 2024.
- There are a few small wikis that will not receive the task until they have enough articles for the algorithm to work properly.
Community Configuration
- We shared Community Configuration 2.0 plans with technical stakeholders. [22] 🖂
- Initial Community Configuration design ideas have been shared and discussed with community members.
- A basic Community Configuration 2.0 demo is released on ToolForge.
- Developers can find some initial proof of concept code shared on gitlab.
Mentorship
When a mentor marked themselves as "Away", they were not getting their name assigned to new accounts when they returned. This has been fixed. [23]
We improved the message received by newcomers when their mentor quits, to reduce confusion. [24]
We worked on ensuring that all mentees are assigned to an active mentor. This required reassigning mentees with no mentors to a new mentor. We paused this as the clean-up script confused some editors. We will resume it when the identified blockers are resolved. [25]
It is now possible to create an Abuse Filter to prevent one user from signing up as a mentor. [26]
Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.
18:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Editor reflections
Hey, I don't know what, if anything, you intend to do with the 'Editor reflections', but I just wanted to say it was a great idea, and nice to read other people's answers. :) Cheers, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:53, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- @DoubleGrazing I was mostly just curious about what people had to say and what we could learn as a community from the sum of our experiences :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:11, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections Is Amazing!! So wonderful to get an insight into the WikiTravels of other fellow travelers as the circle expands. I'm glad you implemented such a gathering. Buster7 (talk) 15:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- After leaving the above, I wandered into the History pages of talk at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention because I recalled your input many years ago. OMG! I may never leave! It takes me back to the beginning when I spent hours reading what other editors had to say. Even Now, when I tell people about WP I tell them that every article has a talk page that is most likely filled with discussion and verbosity (good and bad) and is worthy of a visit. Thanks also for placing it under the umbrella of the dormant Editor Retention Project. Hopefully it rekindles what was once a flourishing "Speakers Corner" talk page. In real life I'm not a joiner...except for WikiPedia. Buster7 (talk) 16:15, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
story today · music |
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Now I found time for the reflections, thank you for the idea! I'm not a native speaker, please see what you understand. I'd like a simpler way to link to a post, - could I set an anchor I can remember? I'm also not not sure what "ll" stands for in the question "Do you'll think ...". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt Are you talking about the question that says: Do you think you'll keep editing for the forseeable future? The you'll stands for you will. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- (for accessibility: please don't leave blank lines when indenting.) - I mean the question "Do you'll think you'll keep editing for the forseeable future?" I know what the second "ll" stands for but not the first ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: It seems like we're talking about the same question but someone has a typo somewhere. The original question is posed as I quoted it above. The first you'll would not make grammatical sense so it's no wonder you're confused. By the way, where did I leave a blank line in my response? I'm not seeing it and would like to make things as accessible as possible for others. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- The typo was in the preload. Elli (talk | contribs) 18:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for fixing, - I just couldn't see it anymore and thought I had been blind again. - Clovermoss, I fixed the extra line. - What do you think of making an index which you can sort by alphabet and year of joining, with links to the entries? Some user names are easy to remember and search for, but I'll never remember any without a vowel ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: You mentioned an index, are you thinking of something like this? ☆ Bri (talk) 18:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- That's something! - I thought of this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- How about this?
Only the link to my name works for now, but if you like it I will fix up the links.Links work now. ☆ Bri (talk) 23:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)- looks great to me! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:13, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- How about this?
- That's something! - I thought of this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: You mentioned an index, are you thinking of something like this? ☆ Bri (talk) 18:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for fixing, - I just couldn't see it anymore and thought I had been blind again. - Clovermoss, I fixed the extra line. - What do you think of making an index which you can sort by alphabet and year of joining, with links to the entries? Some user names are easy to remember and search for, but I'll never remember any without a vowel ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- The typo was in the preload. Elli (talk | contribs) 18:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: It seems like we're talking about the same question but someone has a typo somewhere. The original question is posed as I quoted it above. The first you'll would not make grammatical sense so it's no wonder you're confused. By the way, where did I leave a blank line in my response? I'm not seeing it and would like to make things as accessible as possible for others. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- (for accessibility: please don't leave blank lines when indenting.) - I mean the question "Do you'll think you'll keep editing for the forseeable future?" I know what the second "ll" stands for but not the first ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Feedback Your survey, as I guess, is great. It made many users and administrators to share their experiences. I would really appreciate your work, Clovermoss, for your brilliant work. Toadette (Happy holiday!) 18:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 4 December 2023
- In the media: Turmoil on Hebrew Wikipedia, grave dancing, Olga's impact and inspiring Bhutanese nuns
- Disinformation report: "Wikipedia and the assault on history"
- Comix: Bold comics for a new age
- Essay: I am going to die
- Featured content: Real gangsters move in silence
- Traffic report: And it's hard to watch some cricket, in the cold November Rain
- Humour: Mandy Rice-Davies Applies
No target error
Hi Clovermoss. Don't worry about errors, there are always gnomes around looking to help. The error I fixed was of a no-target error rather than a CS1 message you won't be able to see this type of error message as it is off by default (something I'm working towards changing). They only relate to short form references ({{sfn}} or {{harv}}). You may want to turn them on if you are going to be editting this type of reference, the details of how to do so are here Category:Harv and Sfn template errors#Displaying error messages. If you ever have any questions about such things just drop me a note on my talk page. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @ActivelyDisinterested I made a cs1 error, too. Check out my talk page history for the bot message. I was trying to reach out to you because you fixed another one of my mistakes and figured you might have some idea of where I was going wrong here, too. And then I messed up your username with someone else. Anyways, I will check out the displaying error messages thing for the possible sfn/harv errors. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- That was at Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs, while the error I fixed was at Jehovah's Witnesses so I was slightly confused.
The bot was actually confused, there was never a CS1 error. It stemmed from an error where you missed a closing ref tag (</ref>). This caused a chunk of the article to try and be a reference, which the bot couldn't understand. You fixed the error with this edit. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)- @ActivelyDisinterested Okay, thanks for explaining that. I really was lost on what was going on there. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- Don't worry I've spent over two years solidly working at fixing such errors, and sometimes I'm still stumped. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- @ActivelyDisinterested Okay, thanks for explaining that. I really was lost on what was going on there. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- That was at Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs, while the error I fixed was at Jehovah's Witnesses so I was slightly confused.
Holiday Greetings
{{
1=Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. Always a pleasure to see your Gathering grow as editors respond. I would be glad to assist, down the line, with anything you might decide to do. ―Buster7 ☎ }}
Happy Holidays!
Hello Clovermoss: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Patient Zerotalk 05:47, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Patient Zerotalk 05:47, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
FYI
I've proposed a post on https://wikis.world/@wikipedia about User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 12:06, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
- @TheresNoTime: Is there some sort of deadline for that? I can try to write a better introduction before then. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Editor of the Week
Editor of the Week | ||
Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week in recognition of your great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project) |
User:Buster7 submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:
- Improving content within favored articles is a mainstay of WikiPedia editing. Niagara Region and the history of Jehovah's Witnesses articles have flourished under the watchful eye of Editor Clovermoss. A 5 year veteran of WP, she works to reduce systemic bias in her usual kind and friendly manner. A valued member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Canada, Wikipedia:WikiProject Ontario and Wikipedia:WikiProject Jehovah's Witnesses, she has almost 60% of her 20,000 edits to MainSpace. In late November of 2023 Clover bravely created an essay page, User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections, asking editors to share their WikiPedia experiences. To date many dozens of veteran editors have responded, creating a vast treasure chest of experiences and ideas that will serve WikiPedia with valuable reflections of editorial history. This nomination seconded by Novem Linguae and theleekycauldron
You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:
{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}
Thanks again for your efforts! Buster7 (talk) 16:46, 9 December 2023 (UTC)