User talk:Illusion Flame

CVUA

I’ve seen this advise passed to someone else recently, I believe it was to SkyWolf369, which is that to be a CVUA trainer you should probably have been through the program and/or have a very strong understanding of what counter vandalism entails, the CVUA trainer who left that advise said they has 30k edits, 15k of which were anti vandalism. While I have no doubt in your skills, but would like to let you know. Also Cyberwolf434344 shouldn’t really be in the academy just yet as they don’t have enough (200) mainspace edits as stated on the academy page. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 15:11, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

While I have not been through the program, I do have a very strong understanding of counter vandalism. I have over 6,100 edits and know many of the counter vandalism policies and norms. I have enough experience to be an instructor, as the requirement is only 1,000 edits. Cyber wolf was recommended to join the academy by an administrator that declined his Rollback permissions request. That is why, despite their lack of 200 Mai space edits, I offered to instruct them. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:17, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Today I have seen 3 mistakes you have made in handling reports from users. Zippybonzo is right to ask you to slow down and get a better understanding before advising other users. Cabayi (talk) 16:40, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

What mistakes have I made in teaching/instructing at the CVUA, @Cabayi? Reviewing my comments/lessons, I cannot find any mistakes. Please let me know so I can improve. Thanks! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 16:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

1. Above, at #Draft submission, you should have added the {{subst:AFC draft|username}} so that the user could submit it rather than submit it yourself.
2. On your response to a report of an edit filter false positive you added comments noting that it was biographical but did not report it to oversight for removal of the user's PII (phone number, address, DOB).
3. On VRTS you asked for a user to be blocked for having forgotten their password. WP:COMPROMISED is where someone else has access to a user's account, not where a user forgets their password. You tagged their userpage as compromised when that was not the case.

We all face a learning curve but, I'm sorry to say, you're running straight into it rather than taking the time to climb it. Cabayi (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

1. Yeah, in hindsight, you’re right. I should’ve just let them submit it themselves, instead of just doing it. I was just trying to help.
2. For this one, I guess I was just focusing on trying to help the user with their FP report that I completely forgot to report to Oversight. My bad.
3. I did ask for a user who forgot their password to be blocked, but an admin did block the account. Alexf, I believe. They did block the user, so wasn’t I right to report? I will not mark the account as compromised in the future.

None of these things have anything to do with my knowledge or experience with counter-vandalism, so I will continue to instruct at the CVUA. I believe I can really help new vandal-fighters there, and I have already modified all of the lessons and created a final exam. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 17:18, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

You're clerking the edit filters, responding as a VRTS agent, running CVUA training and making mistakes. It would be better to master one skill and do it well before teaching it and before taking on other tasks. I'm sure you'll feel free to ignore the advice. Cabayi (talk) 17:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm afraid would agree with @Cabayi and @Zippybonzo. I've suggested it before: you shouldn't run into doing things, lest you become overwhelmed. You've recently become a VRT agent and an AfC reviewer, all while enrolling for NPP school and remaining very active in anti-vandalism. Maybe, just... wait? Wait until you get proficient in one area, and then branch out? In my opinion, better to be a master of some than a jack of all. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 17:44, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

While this thread is open, I'm going to ask why your final exam isn't on wiki, as nobody can see then if the exam is what a new user should be tested on. Also if it's off wiki it doesn't let another user perform an evaluation of their answers. Also please take more care handling false positives as you recently marked a false positive as already done, when in fact it was still in need of attention. Thank you, Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 15:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

My final exam is simply the final exam questions listed here in Google form format so it’s easier to grade. That’s only part one, the other part is on wiki. Another user doesn’t need to evaluate their answers, I give detailed feedback for questions. Also, that FP thread was finished, an EFM already said a change wasn’t possible and the edit went though. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but a google form means that an admin cannot see what answered they added if they were evaluating a rollback request. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 16:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

If an admin requests to see the students final exam answers, I would share upon request. By the way, I just completed the NPP school live review. It was very nerve racking, but I learned a lot. The suspense is killing me right now, but I hope I did well. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 16:12, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

NPP wise, your review of 5, I disagree with, IMO it’s probably patrollable but not perfect, but it’s a tough one. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 16:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree it’s a tough one. That’s why I said I’d consult another NPP before making a decision. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 16:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Illusion Flame. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 14:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

64andtim ^{💬 📚} 14:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Part 2 isn’t in email form. See your CVUA page for details. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 14:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

My Class

I'm having a problem finding vandals who have received their last warning to report to AIV. May I use reports I filed prior to my starting of your class? Blitzfan51 speak to the manager 19:44, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

No, try to find new ones. Something I’d recommend is finding someone who is vandalizing. I like to use the edit filter log to find users repeatedly vandalizing. This allows you to better find vandals and revert their edits. It’s also a good idea to keep tabs on the contributions of vandals whose edits you have reverted. This can lead to you finding more vandalism and eventually getting more AIV reports. You only need 2, so it shouldn’t be too hard to find one. If you still need help and I spot a vandal, I’ll leave you a message. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 19:51, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

A Bit of a Problem

I can not have the final exam emailed to me. For one the parental lock on my computer will not let me, and two, I used a fake email for security reasons. Is there any alternative you or the community can provide? Blitzfan51 speak to the manager 12:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I will just post the link on-wiki for you to complete, once you are ready. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 12:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

thank you so much. Blitzfan51 speak to the manager 12:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted

Hi Illusion Flame. Your account has been added to the "New page reviewers" user group. Please check back at WP:PERM in case your user right is time limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page. In addition, please remember:

• Be nice to new editors. They are usually not aware that they are doing anything wrong. Do make use of the message feature when tagging pages for maintenance so that they are aware.
• You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted. Please be formal and polite in your approach to them – even if they are not.
• If you are not sure what to do with a page, don't review it – just leave it for another reviewer.
• Accuracy is more important than speed. Take your time to patrol each page. Use the message feature to communicate with article creators and offer advice as much as possible.

The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. If you can read any languages other than English, please add yourself to the list of new page reviewers with language proficiencies. — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 22:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

nb. temporary grant until 2023-07-31 — please contact an admin or re-request the rights prior to expiry if you wish to keep them — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 22:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks again @TheresNoTime! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 22:18, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

DRAFTIFY and hasty reviewing

Hi Illusion Flame. Thank you for volunteering for new page patrol, but please take a moment to (re-)familiarise yourself with WP:DRAFTIFY before you review any further articles. Specifically:

1. Articles should only be moved to draft if there is no evidence of active improvement – the rule of thumb being that you should wait at least an hour after the last edit. You moved Draft:Fayd al-Bari ala Sahih al-Bukhari just one minute after it was created.
2. Pages should only be moved to draft if they are obviously unready for mainspace. This does not include well-formed articles that merely lack inline citations, like 2023–24 Ardal SW. For that use tags like {{more citations needed}} or {{unsourced}}.
3. You must not draftify articles that weren't created recently. This is policy. For example, 746 BC has a history going back to 2002.

Please also note that in general NPPers are advised to wait at least an hour before reviewing articles to avoid discouraging article creators. Articles less than an hour old are highlighted in red in the new page queue, but you seem to be reviewing them anyway. – Joe (talk) 13:55, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I saw you reverted my draftification of 786 BC, but the head NPP tutor, @Atsme, approved it. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 14:05, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Joe - this one is a tuffy because it has existed with no content and no sourcing for many years (since inception). It's closer to being a template than an article. It was in the queue because it keeps being redirected, and then the redirect is reverted which is seen as a new article. Something short of deletion needed to happen because for YEARS, this article has created a lot of work and time sinks for reviewers. Your input will be greatly appreciated as to how we can best resolve this problem once and for all. Atsme 💬 📧 14:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Are we talking about the same article? 746 BC has been a redirect for the last ten years. The redirect had only been removed twice before I just did it now: once in 2013; and then on 6 June, when one event was added to the list. If Illusion Flame disagreed with that action then I would have thought the obvious course of action would be to undo and restore the redirect, and after that, if contested again, taken to AfD or similar per WP:BLAR. Personally I wouldn't even do that, because 747 BC and 745 BC both exist as respectable stubs, and a quick search turned up a couple of notable events we could add to 746.[1] In any case, policy is really crystal clear that there are no circumstances in which it's appropriate to move a page with a 21 year history to draftspace.

@Illusion Flame: I've also just noticed that you left a note for the creator of 2023–24 Ardal SW saying that it was draftified "because it has no sources" – in fact it had two sources clearly cited in the article body and three additional potential sources in the external links section. I should emphasise that, while the NPP school is an excellent way to get started with NPP, you and you alone are responsible for ensuring that you use the tool in accordance with policy. – Joe (talk) 14:33, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I've recently noticed issues with this user's editing as has @Cabayi and @Schminnte. The problems that Cabayi noted were probably caused from being hasty, so I would say just slow down, until you get the hang of NPP, take about 5 minutes to review a page, and then if you think it could be controversial, message someone in the #wikimedia-npp IRC channel or leave an admin or reviewer a message. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 17:07, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Will do, thanks! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 17:20, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Let's slow down here a minute. Let's look into Illusion Flame's work with the other 2 draftifies. (1) Fayd al-Bari ala Sahih al-Bukhari was sitting there unsourced. Apparently there is no longer an issue about having unsourced articles in mainspace. Wow. So what exactly happened and what result did we get? It was draftified, not deleted. The article's creator (who has a history of creation issues) quickly obliged and cited sources after a receiving a kind, thoughtful and helpful post on their UTP. That is not a problem. Take a look at the new article history of that article creator; (2) 2023–24 Ardal SW - WP:CRYSTAL no citations - no sources, no content because it hasn't happened, yet and (3) 746 BC - a long term issue and time sink for reviewers. Let's keep it like it is and waste more valuable time of our volunteers. These are not cut and dried situations for even the most experienced NPP reviewers. It would not surprise me if Illusion Flame turns back the right, and it would be a loss to this project. Just look at how you ganged up on him for trying to help and getting good results for his NPP work. NPP is about content issues; therefore, final judgments about content require discussion/consensus, rather than sole discretionary actions by an admin.

Suggestion: since NPP reviewers (who also work AfC) should not review new articles in the queue for at least 1 hr., the latter being added to our Tutorial back in Nov 2022 but not updated in the flow-chart. Also, I could not find the consensus discussion to wait 1 hour, but I agree with the concept (for autopatrolled users). With all due respect, Joe...in your attempt to not bite article creators, take a look at how this new reviewer is being treated. By allowing anyone to create in article space in lieu of AfC or User draft, we are encouraging sloppy, unfinished, unsourced articles. Teach article creators to follow our PAGs, or risk getting their articles draftified. What is so wrong about that? Our reviewers are protecting this project and our readers from garbage articles, potential OR, Copyvio, etc. Why are we attacking our own, and letting the violators walk free? Our volunteers are the ones who need far more consideration and support than what they've been getting. We can quote a policy for every action and another policy for every reaction; it becomes endless debate. Article creators by-pass AfC for a reason. We teach people how to treat us, so why not teach them the correct way and show our volunteers more appreciation for what they do. Burn-out is high at NPP because we allow article creators to bend the rules. Atsme 💬 📧 17:37, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this comment @Atsme. It says pretty much everything I was thinking, but didn’t know if I should say it. Thank you. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 17:50, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree, I don’t like to have a go at users, but I always see room for improvement in all users, including myself, and I often end up starting massive threads. I have no problems with Illusion Flame, just that he needs to slow down, and be a little less hasty and ask another reviewer if they find a hard article. Thank you for your contributions Illusion Flame, and I can understand what it is like to be a new reviewer, and I don’t mind users making mistakes, as long as they learn from them, which Illusion Flame clearly does, again, thank you for your contributions. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 17:55, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Civility Barnstar

Thank you for keeping civil in all the discussions that have been happening on your talk page, I understand as a new NPR, it’s not easy, and I think you have done a good job, given a lot of the articles are tough, and that’s why they are in the queue for so long. As I believe it says somewhere, NPP is the firewall of new pages, and firewalls can literally burn-out, but I can’t thank you enough for staying with the project and maintaining your commitment. Thank you, and take this barnstar as a reminder that your work on NPP and the project as a whole is appreciated by many. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 18:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. To be honest, I think the fourth pillar is the most important, which is why I always attempt to be civil. If you think about it, can we truly build an encyclopedia when everyone attacks each other and consensus can never be formed? I think not. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 18:11, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree, that the 4th pillar is fundamental to the running of a community online encyclopaedia. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 18:41, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Question from Zainulabdin110 (10:21, 9 June 2023)

Hi --Zainulabdin110 (talk) 10:21, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi! If you have and questions about editing Wikipedia, let me know. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 10:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

New page writing

hi pro , I want to write a new page for a public figure , is it a right time to write ? Will you watch it and review it real quick? Can you suggest me some tips to create page that can be reviewed and posted quickly? Zainulabdin110 (talk) 12:51, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate your enthusiasm for starting a page. Before writing, I would recommend reading Help:Your first article. I also recommend starting an article using the WP:Article creation wizard. That will help guide your writing and allow you to practice in draft space. I will monitor the draft and approve it when ready. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 13:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Place to create templates?

Hello. I noticed you declined my draft for a clickable imagemap for the 1916 US Senate elections because the article wizard is not intended for templates and said that I could publish the template myself, but I am not sure how to do that. Is there a specific place to create templates, or is there some other process? On Wikipedia's own guide on templates, it says to create a template in the same way you would a normal article. if you could provide some clarification on this, that would be much appreciated. Thank you! PrusBis6187 (talk) 02:07, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. Should be right now. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 02:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

RFA conduct

May I request that you take a break from commenting at the ongoing RFA (you have made 15 posts to the RFA and its talkpage so far; the candidate has made 16 in the process of answering 10+ questions). Your enthusiasm is welcome but some restraint and discretion would be helpful. For example, calling oppose reasons "stupid" or asking editors to "cool down" serves neither the candidate nor the discussion. Abecedare (talk) 15:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Sure. In hindsight, I probably shouldn’t have called an oppose vote stupid, but I agree with my decision to tell another user to cool down. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:57, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Just noting that KoA seems to share this sentiment (Special:Diff/1160124755). Schminnte (talk • contribs) 16:46, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. It isn't as isolated as calling one vote stupid as they portray, but telling another user to cool down when Illusion Flame has been running hot is definitely a further escalation of WP:BLUDGEON. As I mentioned on the talk page, folks try to be understanding of newer editors, but this is a case where a few kind cautions have already been given out. KoA (talk) 17:59, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Is the running hot bit meant to be a pun, because you know Illusion Flame? Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 18:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Not sure how I’ve been running hot. I’ve been very polite (other than the stupid oppose vote thing, I guess) and never personal attacked. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 18:07, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Please read BLUDGEON above. Being polite does not mean you aren't exhibiting inappropriate behavior. If anything, someone saying they were being polite is a common denial tactic, and you are sidestepping the behavior concerns editors are bringing up. Some of the most WP:TENDENTIOUS editors are polite. KoA (talk) 18:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think I’m being tendentious at all. I’ll admit, I was bludgeoning users, but I have agreed to stop commenting on the RFA. Running hot = being rude, so you were insinuating that I was being rude, which is why I pointed out I was being polite. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 18:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

It wasn’t rude, just not needed, and could be taken to the opposers as mocking them or being rude to them. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 18:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Counter Vandalism Academy

Hi @Illusion Flame I would like to know if you can train me to counter vandalism. Also what a coincidence I not long signed your guestbook and didn't realise you was part of the counter vandalism unit. Jack345110 (talk) 18:41, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Of course! You can find your lessons here. You may begin at any time. Please remember to read the directions. Thanks! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 18:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Also, do you have Discord? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 18:55, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Illusion Flame Thanks. No I don't have discord sorry. Jack345110 (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

That’s fine. We can just have discussions on-wiki. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 19:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Illusion Flame on my lesson you gave me it says I might have to show a diff how do I do that. Jack345110 (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

You can find information on how to do so here. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:21, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

@Illusion Flame Thanks. Oh and I have to give you this as I gave it to everyone else.

Jack345110 has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. You can spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

To spread the goodness of cookies, you can add {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

Thank you for being the 5th person to sign my guestbook. Jack345110 (talk) 20:33, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome! - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:45, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

A cookie (or biscuit lol) for you!

I was clearing out my emails and I found the email from when you first welcomed me, enjoy this cookie for being so kind! FatalFit | ✉ | ✓  02:52, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome! Is that a new signature change I see? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 05:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi

Hi @Illusion Flame I would like you to reply on my talk page that is on this link:User talk:ByeBlocks4224 and answer why my draft was declined.

ByeBlocks4224 (talk) 16:37, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 16:49, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

@Illusion Flame Please reply on my talk page that is on this link:User talk:ByeBlocks4224 and answer why my draft:Draft:32768 was declined if I put the Num-stub template ByeBlocks4224 (talk) 07:05, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023

Hello Illusion Flame,

New Page Review queue April to June 2023

Backlog

Redirect drive: In response to an unusually high redirect backlog, we held a redirect backlog drive in May. The drive completed with 23851 reviews done in total, bringing the redirect backlog to 0 (momentarily). Congratulations to Hey man im josh who led with a staggering 4316 points, followed by Meena and Greyzxq with 2868 and 2546 points respectively. See this page for more details. The redirect queue is steadily rising again and is steadily approaching 4,000. Please continue to help out, even if it's only for a few or even one review a day.

Redirect autopatrol: All administrators without autopatrol have now been added to the redirect autopatrol list. If you see any users who consistently create significant amounts of good quality redirects, consider requesting redirect autopatrol for them here.

WMF work on PageTriage: The WMF Moderator Tools team, consisting of Sam, Jason and Susana, and also some patches from Jon, has been hard at work updating PageTriage. They are focusing their efforts on modernising the extension's code rather than on bug fixes or new features, though some user-facing work will be prioritised. This will help make sure that this extension is not deprecated, and is easier to work on in the future. In the next month or so, we will have an opt-in beta test where new page patrollers can help test the rewrite of Special:NewPagesFeed, to help find bugs. We will post more details at WT:NPPR when we are ready for beta testers.

Articles for Creation (AFC): All new page reviewers are now automatically approved for Articles for Creation draft reviewing (you do not need to apply at WT:AFCP like was required previously). To install the AFC helper script, visit Special:Preferences, visit the Gadgets tab, tick "Yet Another AFC Helper Script", then click "Save". To find drafts to review, visit Special:NewPagesFeed, and at the top left, tick "Articles for Creation". To review a draft, visit a submitted draft, click on the "More" menu, then click "Review (AFCH)". You can also comment on and submit drafts that are unsubmitted using the script.

You can review the AFC workflow at WP:AFCR. It is up to you if you also want to mark your AFC accepts as NPP reviewed (this is allowed but optional, depends if you would like a second set of eyes on your accept). Don't forget that draftspace is optional, so moves of drafts to mainspace (even if they are not ready) should not be reverted, except possibly if there is conflict of interest.

Pro tip: Did you know that visual artists such as painters have their own SNG? The most common part of this "creative professionals" criteria that applies to artists is WP:ARTIST 4b (solo exhibition, not group exhibition, at a major museum) or 4d (being represented within the permanent collections of two museums).

Reminders

• Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
• There is live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord and #wikimedia-npp ^connect on IRC.
• Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist.
• To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

A barnstar for you!

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Many thanks to you and the entire NPP team for the assistance on Discord. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜 01:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome. Thanks for the barnstar, and you may want to get your signature sorted out. Looks cool, but doesn’t link to the right page. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 01:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

NPP coordination invitation

Hi Illusion Flame,

I was wondering if you would be interested in assisting with some of the NPP coordination tasks, such as backlog drive coordination and drafting/publishing the newsletter (it always helps to have an extra pair of eyes when writing), or there is a small need for someone to recruit possible new reviewers/autopatrollers/redirect autopatrollers to reduce backlog strain.

Thanks, Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 19:49, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I would love to help you out with NPP coordinating! I can definitely help with the backlog drive by coordinating and handing out awards/prizes. I am less familiar with massmessage, but I can help draft the newsletter and correct anything I see wrong. I really like recruiting people for rights when I know it can help the wiki. Is there an application process I need to go through? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 19:54, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

If you send @Novem Linguae a talk page message, he can add you to the coordinators list. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 19:56, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Done. What should I do now? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:01, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I am unsure whether it is common for very new NPPers to be added to the co-ordinator list (don't get me wrong I couldn't find any problem with your reviews, but you've only been reviewing for 12 days), but if you do get approved IMO you could watchlist the page Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. The page isn't attended much so responses probably won't be prompt. VickKiang (talk) 21:10, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I understand, and I myself was thinking the same thing. I am willing to help in anyway I can, so if Zippybonzo, an NPP coordinator, thinks I can help, I am always willing to lend a hand. I have watchlisted that, thanks. -🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 21:14, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it depends on what kind of topics you deal with- I'm sure you'd be fine to hand out the awards and complete the newsletter and mailing lists, though maybe it might be better to wait a while until you do the more contentious tasks (i.e., co-ordinating NPPSCHOOL, or recruiting and checking upon the patrols of other patrollers, the latter I am not even sure who's doing right now). VickKiang (talk) 21:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah. To start, I only plan to do newsletter and awards stuff, but wait to learn more before branching out. So you think that would be fine? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 21:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I've probably worded my original statement poorly- I definitely feel that you are qualified and have no issues to do the tasks such as co-ordinating backlog drives, writing newsletters, and handing out awards. Plus I believe that if you focus on the technical side like Novem Linguae does it won't be too contentious. But if you branch into the general concerns, co-ordinating on PageTriage improvements with the WMF, checking other NPRs, and applying for PERMS it of course gets IMHO a lot more controversial. You of course know this, but the community have had lengthy disagreements with NPP especially on these issues, and espeically BLAR and draftification, resulting in large and unpleasant VPP, AN, RfA, and ANI threads. I think that it'd be better to as you said wait a little until you step into these and also try to avoid the dramaboards (though I often fail to stay out of dramaboards, so there's that). VickKiang (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the well explained response, I 100% agree to just stick to awards and newsletter like @Zippybonzo suggested for now. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 21:39, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

@VickKiang: Personally I think it's very peculiar to add someone to the team as a coordinator when they've had the permission for less than 2 weeks. The permission is also set to expire at the end of July. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:03, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Writing a newsletter and occasionally running a backlog drive with my assistance doesn't even really need the permission, I cannot overstate how simple it is to copy a page, fill some stuff in, answer questions, and request a MassMessage mailing. Recruiting NPRs and APs is harder but again doesn't need the perm, just some common sense. Illusion Flame is an editor who I would regard as having a persistent attitude to improve with each edit. They weren't made to coordinate a backlog drive single handedly with no help from anyone, they are simply helping out with some of the more simple but important tasks at NPP, if you disagree, fine, but I would say that it is reasonable. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 17:19, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

The point is that how is somebody that's entirely new to the team, and hasn't been granted the permission permanently themselves, going to act as the best liaison for seeking out and recruiting individuals? Their intentions may be pure but it's a matter of experience. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Well, the recruitment they may not be the best for, but the newsletter and backlog drive coordination doesn't need as much experience in NPP. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 20:12, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, Zippy makes a good point. Backlog and newsletter only require availability, competence, and effective communication, which I believe myself to contain. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:42, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I've added you to the newsletter test send list, so when the newsletter needs a test send it will send to you and then you can review it before we fully send it. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Okay, that’s a good idea. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 11:35, 20 June 2023 (UTC)