Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case

Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings

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Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Fred Bauder		11 November 2018	0/0/0

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Open cases

Currently, no arbitration cases are open.

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Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Venezuelan politics	25 May 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation	none	(orig. case)	7 June 2024
Clarification request: mentioning the name of off-wiki threads	none	none	4 June 2024
Amendment request: India-Pakistan	none	(orig. case)	7 June 2024
Clarification request: Contentious topics restrictions	none	none	10 June 2024

Arbitrator motions

Motion name	Date posted
Block of Rp2006	18 June 2024

Fred Bauder

Initiated by Maxim_(talk) at 19:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Maxim (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Fred Bauder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Iridescent (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Boing! said Zebedee (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• diff of notification Fred Bauder

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• Not applicable

Statement by Maxim

I've desysoped Fred Bauder per WP:IAR in light of two self-unblocks today. As it's a Sunday and frankly we (or most of us) have lives, it is not clear when Arbcom would formally motion to desysop, and it is not unreasonable to assume that Fred Bauder may unblock himself again. Committee members, how you want to proceed here is your call, whether it is to do a level I/II desysop after-the-fact and dismiss this case, or whether you prefer to do a separate motion altogether. Or whether you want to trout me for my application of IAR. Point being, I'm not here seeking specific relief but more putting my actions on the record. Maxim_(talk) 19:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

BU Rob13, I wonder if a proposed scope regarding Level I and what are de-facto bureaucrat reserve powers (in the Commonwealth sense), would be better suited to a well-advertised RfC. There's a whole lot that can be hashed out regarding how bureaucrats and Arbcom handle matters on resysops and desysops. What comes to mind, other than today, are recent contentious requests for resysop at WP:BN. Maxim_(talk) 20:14, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Alanscottwalker, certainly, I'll try to clarify my reasoning. Self-unblocking (unless it's an obvious accident, i.e. admin blocks himself instead of intended target) is a really clear line in the sand. Doing it twice is over-the-top over the line. I don't think it's unreasonable to think a third self-unblock would occur. So if were a third self-unblock to happen we'd be back at re-blocking again. And so on and so forth. Such a situation is most undesirable given community expectations for admin conduct. The current situation is now effectively stable - that is more desirable than continuing or possibly continuing the unblock-reblock cycle. In ordinary edit-warring cases we use blocks and protections to stabilize the situation because it forces an end to the warring. With an admin unblocking himself twice, the only way you do the same is by desysop. So, I think the desysop is in the best interest of the project. Optically it's not an emergency like a rogue admin but I'd argue it rises to a different kind of emergency, and in both cases the outcome is fairly guaranteed to be the same. Maxim_(talk) 22:42, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Iridescent

Adding myself as a party pro forma in light of the fact that I'm the one who performed the reblock which Fred Bauder reversed—i.e. when the issue changed from a violation of WP:NEVERUNBLOCK to a violation of WP:WHEEL—and as the editor who proposed that Fred Bauder be formally sanctioned in addition to the desysop element. Unless anyone has any specific question, I doubt I have anything to add that hasn't been said at the ANI thread. ‑ Iridescent 19:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Davey2010, I think you're misunderstanding why we're here; this isn't a tribunal to rule on whether Fred Bauder should be blocked or unblocked (that's a matter for ANI), this is a case to decide if Maxim exceeded bureaucrat authority in desysopping without an Arbcom ruling to that effect. The committee can't decline this even if they wanted to (unless they intend to ask the WMF to intervene directly, which they won't). ‑ Iridescent 19:57, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Opabinia regalis, if you're taking the "by the letter" route then by the letter of WP:LEVEL2 (or WP:LEVEL1 for that matter) you can't desysop other than temporarily, and are obliged either to restore the bit "once a satisfactory explanation is provided or the issues are satisfactorily resolved", or open a full case. This would have ended up here whichever route you took. ‑ Iridescent 21:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Lourdes

The community is discussing this issue at ANI and there's no need for the ArbCom to step in here as of this moment. With due thanks to Maxim for the absolutely on the dot action, Maxim could well have emailed the ArbCom than opened up this thread. Lourdes 19:39, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion by SN54129

...that this is put to bed as easily and as quietly as possible for all concerned: endorse the L2 desysop, in consideration of the consensus formed/forming at ANI (as yet unclosed, but which presumably will be closed as "Desysop, no site ban"). The committee is not, after all, being asked to consider the length of the block in place or to be based. No fish supper for Maxim, it was a good call. Others have, after all, also emailed the committee tonight. Although: did anyone email a steward? ——SerialNumber54129 19:40, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by WBG

• As the editor who triggered the chain of events, I pretty much believe Fred's attitude is incompatible with our current values.
• And a desysop is the basic minimum, which ought be executed with minimal fuss by the commitee and this case request be dealt with.Maxim's actions were very rational and it was a good call.
• Per Cas's comment (which frames my thoughts well-enough), the indef shall be stayed unless he can demonstrate his competency.
• I note that my usage of rollback has been questioned and I agree that it was non-optimal.∯WBG^converse 19:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Funplussmart

There seems to be overwhelming consensus for a desysop for wheel-warring, but a site ban is probably unnessesary in my opinion (I changed my vote in the ANI post). Of course, we are only here for procedure only. funplussmart (talk) 19:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

And I do support Maxim's desysoping. (of Fred Bauder) funplussmart (talk) 19:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Questions by Alanscottwalker

What was the imminent harm? I get that there was wheel-warring/self-dealing but why could not the de-sysop wait for emergency process? What was going to happen? Nothing? In other words, so he is unblocked, what did you think he would do, move questions from a page to its talk page? So, those can be moved back, right? Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

And, what? Is it true the desysop was two hours after the last unblock, and what happened in that time? Nothing? Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:13, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

"[T]his seems like it would have been solved with far less drama by stopping immediately after Fred's first revert and asking the election commissioners to review the situation." Indeed, so what if those questions were moved for a few hours or even a day or so, as there was a pointer to them? What was it that could not have been talked through? Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Maxim: can you respond to any of the above questions? Thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I think it has already been pointed out that desysop requires a case, even after an emergency desysop, is that right? Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Maxim: Why do you say the situation was unstable? What specifically had happened in the last hour before your action? -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Maxim: Also, you say you consider protection in an edit war? This is claimed to have started as an edit war, so, did you consider protection to stabilize the situation? Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Dave

Said it at ANI and I'll say it here - He should've been desysopped but I believe any sort of ban/sanction is OTT, He didn't go on a rampage blocking everyone and causing mayhem - He simply unblocked himself twice (which is still a dickish thing to do but point is it could've been much worse), I would suggest the committee decline this. –Davey2010^Talk 19:51, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Iridescent I've completely misunderstood why we're here!, This is what 6 hours sleep does to you lol,

Well I support Maxim's actions anyway. –Davey2010^Talk 20:31, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Galobtter

I'm curious what the committee members mean by "accept". we need to examine why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I in this situation, a clear example of what it was intended for would need to be discussed among the committee since only the committee would have access to the mailing list/know why three arbitrators were unable to ratify Level I desysop. what bureaucrats are meant to do in emergency situations. could easily be handled by motion/community RfC on whether bureaucrats can remove permissions in an emergency. I don't see how a case is supposed to help with either of those two questions. If the only purpose is to decide those questions, a case seems an excessively bureaucratic and prolonged way of doing so; the structure of case would not seem to aide in any manner in deciding these questions. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:01, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Examining the initial block might be worthwhile though; per my comments at WP:ANI ([1][2]), that is really the more significant issue since the matter of desysoping for wheel warring/unblocking yourself is well settled. Considering this relatively recent motion in a similarish case of edit warring and then using the admin tools in the same dispute, a look at involvement in relation to edit warring would be beneficial. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Rschen7754

Why couldn't the committee use level I?

If I had seen this earlier, I would have requested an emergency desysop from a steward, but when I saw this the self-unblocks were already 2 hours old. Speaking as a former steward, this could have been acted on by them if the wheel warring was still active. --Rschen7754 20:07, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ivanvector (re: Fred Bauder)

I would like to see the Committee formally endorse Maxim's action per WP:LEVEL1, due to the sensitivity of the bureaucrat bit and the clear consensus at the community ban discussion.

I also strongly recommend the Committee open a case to review the community's trust in Fred Bauder's administrator privileges, given multiple instances of wheel warring today including at least once after having been warned to stop (see Iridescent's entry from 11 November in Fred Bauder's block log). Perhaps it was not advisable for Boing! said Zebedee to block Fred in the edit warring situation they were in and perhaps that conduct also needs to be examined, but WP:NEVERUNBLOCK is clear that administrators are not permitted to unblock themselves.

I don't know why these experienced editors felt the need to edit war over the placement of Arbcom candidate questions, and I think it might be wise for those editors involved in this to make a statement as to just what the hell they were thinking.

And to this last point I recommend that, since he has been desysopped by a bureaucrat ignoring the rules in the clear best interest of the project and so the immediate threat should be considered mitigated, Fred Bauder should be unblocked to participate in this case request. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Cryptic

A link to the edit war that led to this seems conspicuous by its absence. [3] —Cryptic 20:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

I just want to make the (probably obvious) point that even if the initial block was INVOLVED, the self-unblock was not justified and worthy of an immediate desysop. Bauder could have asked any admin he trusted to look at the block and undo it instead of undoing it himself, if the block was a bad one. (I don't think it was, since even in Boing was involved, it would fall under the "any reasonable admin would take the action" considering the edit warring that was going on.)

As for Op.reg's comments about going fast fast - to a large extent that was conditioned by Bauder's wheel warring, which got us to the state we are in. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

And while I'm here, I may as well say (for what it's worth) that I support Maxim's desysop of Bauder, which appears to me to be a spot-on application of what IAR was meant for. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:03, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Endorse Bbb23's suggestion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:20, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Bbb23

@Opabinia regalis: You're in real trouble when I don't have to scroll down to the signature to know that it's your opinion. I agree with Opabinia's comments. There's a fair amount of blame to go around here, but I see no need to take anyone to task for it. Just confirm the desysop by motion, and we're done. You can't clean up the mess at ANI, but you don't have to extend it.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:12, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statememt by Beeblebrox

Clearly you don’t need yet another user telling you this but what the hell: take the case and resolve it by motion. I think that is the obvious path, Fred crossed a bright line, twice, so there’s no need to debate his other actions. The committtee has held in the past that doing so is not ok regardless of whether or not the initial block was justified. The community can decide what other remedies may or may not be needed, but only you guys can do the desysop which is mandated both by policy and very strong consensus of the community. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Fred Bauder: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• At the direction of a committee member I have added Boing! said Zebedee as a party to this case request. I have notified Boing! said Zebedee here --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 20:37, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Fred Bauder: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/0/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

• Accept whether or not Fred seeks reinstatement of his administrative bit, because I think we need to examine how we respond to situations like this. I'm not interested in blaming Maxim for taking a reasonable action to remove the bit from a sysop crossing obvious bright lines, but we need to examine why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I in this situation, a clear example of what it was intended for, and what bureaucrats are meant to do in emergency situations. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 19:39, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The more I look at this, the more I don't like. I would also like to examine the original block to determine if it violated WP:INVOLVED. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:06, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The resysopping issues should be handled by RfC, Maxim, and I would gladly participate in such a discussion. Until the community decides otherwise, desysopping is ArbCom's wheelhouse. In the past, this means we have set up our own procedures surrounding desysopping. I also believe that we can delegate this responsibility to the bureaucrats in emergency cases without an RfC, just as we delegated other roles of the Committee to non-arbitrators in the past. The Audit Subcommittee comes to mind. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 20:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
• Accept per Rob. Katie^talk 19:41, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
• Accept RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
• Accept and handle by motion Well, first of all, there's no need to have six weeks of inquiry to unravel the great mystery of "why the Arbitration Committee was unable to apply Level I"; the answer is that WP:LEVEL1 was written for obvious emergencies and doesn't apply if any arbs object; I said on the mailing list I'm on board for level 2, don't see the point of level 1 (in this specific instance or in general), and that was taken as an "objection" (fair enough, though it was more of a discussion point than a formal Process; I did also say we should move quickly and would probably have been persuadable to use the faster process despite my general preference for slow-and-steady). So there you go, no need for a case about that.
  As for the actual issue, the core facts here are obvious and not in dispute - Fred unblocked himself under contentious circumstances, that's clearly a misuse of admin tools, Fred should be desysopped. But what has happened is that we're all tripping over ourselves in the hurry hurry rush rush to Do Something and we've repeatedly escalated what is at root a very manageable situation. I am going to stand by the point that "emergency" procedures should be for emergencies. Yes, there's "multiple accounts actively wheel-warring", but that has to mean they are causing harm. In most genuine emergencies - compromised accounts and the like - arb procedures are basically redundant and I am totally on board with IAR desysoppings to stop active damage. In fact I would prefer that the procedure turn that into the R. The "emergency" here was "well, Fred might unblock himself again". Well, yes, he might. The original edit war was about some material on his candidate questions page that he apparently found distressing. Would the wiki have fallen if we waited for another couple of hours to settle that apparently very pressing issue? Erm, no. The key thing about emergency procedures is that they should stabilize the situation pending further review. So - thanks to Maxim for making an honest effort at doing that, but I don't think this was really a necessary escalation; the underlying problem wasn't something that couldn't wait a bit. (I'll push back a little on the "it's Sunday" thing, too - in my book that's an argument to sit on your hands and be patient, not to escalate further.)
  As for the disposition of the case - IMO it's best to just handle it by the motion we were already going to do as a level 2 procedure anyway, but by the letter of level 2 the affected user can request a full case, so I'd be willing to go that route if Fred requests it. While I'm up on my soapbox here, I'll comment briefly on the original dispute - if you don't want someone to be elected, or are skeptical of their platform, fine, but everybody who puts themselves forward is volunteering for a hard job; while we obviously can't have candidates curating their own questions, this seems like it would have been solved with far less drama by stopping immediately after Fred's first revert and asking the election commissioners to review the situation. Opabinia regalis (talk) 21:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)