Talk:United States Declaration of Independence

Additional External Link

I would like to add an external link to the version of this declaration before it was edited, as originally written by Thomas Jefferson. An example of this can be found at http://www.history.org/almanack/resources/jeffersondeclaration.cfm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.96.205.81 (talk • contribs) 11:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Declaration of Independence was not forgotten

I must challenge the assertion that the Declaration of independence was as quoted by Maier on page 162 ( American Scripture) cite in your article. Maier stated "seldom if ever, to judge from newspaper accounts and histories of the celebrations was the Declaration of independence ever read publicly in the late 1770s and 1780s." There is no evidence offered to support this and in fact the DOI was read on July 4th from 1776 onward and usually read also before sermons delivered in gathering places after 1776.

I would also point out that many newspapers were shut down by the British in the colonies during the war years war years of 1775-1783 and could not be reported. Oftentimes, the reports of sermons were sent to newspapers in many states to be included as a news event but nothing in the newspaper reporting standard of 18th century equal today's newspaper reporting practices.

No facts are offered to support such a sweeping judgment and really needs to be reviewed. Unfortunately, the belief that the DOI was forgotten has been included in other histories of the time and needs to be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novanglus2015 (talk • contribs) 10:41, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2015

In this sentence, "Having served its original purpose in announcing independence, references to the text of the Declaration were few for the next four score years.", the phrase 'four score' is used for the purpose of being reminiscent of Abraham Lincoln's 'Gettysburg Address' (which is then discussed in the next sentence) in which Lincoln uses this phrasing. While I think this sentence is clever from a literary point of view, my ability to appreciate its cleverness is only a result of my prior knowledge of Lincoln using this phrasing to refer to this same gap in time between the Declaration of Independence and his Gettysburg Address. This 'allusion' would be lost on any reader without that prior context. This itself is not a problem, per se, but in order for the sentence to retain any meaning to a reader without this prior context, the reader would have to know that "four score" actually means "80". Without either having knowledge of the allusions to the Gettysburg Address or knowledge of the meaning of "four score" as "80", the sentence loses all meaning. I would venture to guess that, considering this, the meaning of this sentence would be lost on the majority of readers. This situation could be remedied by simply changing "score" into a link to an article explaining the meaning of "score" as a word for twenty. Careful though, if they read it as "four twenty" instead of "four twenties" then they'll think old Abe was just talking about getting high. 71.179.249.172 (talk) 08:04, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done Good catch; this concept is discussed at WP:TRITE. Looking further down the article into the body, it implies that attention to the declaration was revived long before the Lincoln's address. I think this diff captures the gist. VQuakr (talk) 08:13, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Only John Hancock and Charles Thomson signed the Declaration on 7/4/1776

A strong argument can be made that John Hancock was the only representative of Congress that signed the fair copy of the Declaration on 7/4 with Secretary of Congress Charles Thomson attesting it, thus explaining why these two names appear on the bottom of the 200 Dunlap broadsides. 2601:589:4705:C7C0:1C96:2508:525A:2F69 (talk) 16:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Then you will need to source it. Doug Weller talk 17:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

"states" replaced by "Colonies:"

Hello, it seems like there may be a mistake in one of the usurpations on the Annotated text of the engrossed Declaration--the word "states" should be replaced with the word "Colonies:" The line in question currently reads, "For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these states," but instead should read, "For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:"

Thank you.

Monture834plaisant (talk) 18:06, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Done As far as I can tell, the requester is correct. I searched the phrasing and found it elsewhere. If I'm mistaken, please revert me. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 00:08, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

References

John Locke's Philosophy in the Declaration

Although this article mentions the belief John Locke influenced the Declaration, this idea is quickly refuted without being supported by textual evidence from 'Two Treatises of Government'. Locke's text read, as mentioned,with many similarities to the Declaration of Independence. His ideas widely influenced America's political platform through the ideas of inalienable rights- a Lockean belief- established in the Declaration, which later led American founders to limit the power of political rulers through separation of powers, a key idea in American constitutionalism. In order to enhance the reader's knowledge of possible Lockean influences within the Declaration, I would like to request the adding of the following information to page five: Locke’s ‘Two Treatises of Government’ explored the idea of inalienable rights, defining these rights as life, liberty, and property. Jefferson later adopted these as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The entire purpose of government, according to Locke was to protect these rights. Locke believed in the social value of the individual, a belief that led his sentiments away from divine rights and towards the importance of consent of the governed (Locke §124). Believing not in the placement of a monarch as the complete embodiment of a country (rather, he believed in the embodiment being in the sentiments of its people), Locke also believed in the importance of maintaining a secular government, to keep worship out of political practices. In order to deepen the equality between average citizen and political elite, executing Locke’s belief in inalienable rights, Americans founded a government upon constitutionalism- the creation of a government with laws to limit the power of politicians. The limit of politicians’ power removes the risk of government members having rights different than those of the average citizen- therefore, making men closer to equals. This importance is key in the Declaration of Independence- a section in which Locke's influence was clearly represented through Jefferson's pen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsut5241 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Additional External Link

I would like to add an external link to the version of this declaration before it was edited, as originally written by Thomas Jefferson. An example of this can be found at http://www.history.org/almanack/resources/jeffersondeclaration.cfm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.96.205.81 (talk • contribs) 11:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Declaration of Independence was not forgotten

I must challenge the assertion that the Declaration of independence was as quoted by Maier on page 162 ( American Scripture) cite in your article. Maier stated "seldom if ever, to judge from newspaper accounts and histories of the celebrations was the Declaration of independence ever read publicly in the late 1770s and 1780s." There is no evidence offered to support this and in fact the DOI was read on July 4th from 1776 onward and usually read also before sermons delivered in gathering places after 1776.

I would also point out that many newspapers were shut down by the British in the colonies during the war years war years of 1775-1783 and could not be reported. Oftentimes, the reports of sermons were sent to newspapers in many states to be included as a news event but nothing in the newspaper reporting standard of 18th century equal today's newspaper reporting practices.

No facts are offered to support such a sweeping judgment and really needs to be reviewed. Unfortunately, the belief that the DOI was forgotten has been included in other histories of the time and needs to be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novanglus2015 (talk • contribs) 10:41, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2015

In this sentence, "Having served its original purpose in announcing independence, references to the text of the Declaration were few for the next four score years.", the phrase 'four score' is used for the purpose of being reminiscent of Abraham Lincoln's 'Gettysburg Address' (which is then discussed in the next sentence) in which Lincoln uses this phrasing. While I think this sentence is clever from a literary point of view, my ability to appreciate its cleverness is only a result of my prior knowledge of Lincoln using this phrasing to refer to this same gap in time between the Declaration of Independence and his Gettysburg Address. This 'allusion' would be lost on any reader without that prior context. This itself is not a problem, per se, but in order for the sentence to retain any meaning to a reader without this prior context, the reader would have to know that "four score" actually means "80". Without either having knowledge of the allusions to the Gettysburg Address or knowledge of the meaning of "four score" as "80", the sentence loses all meaning. I would venture to guess that, considering this, the meaning of this sentence would be lost on the majority of readers. This situation could be remedied by simply changing "score" into a link to an article explaining the meaning of "score" as a word for twenty. Careful though, if they read it as "four twenty" instead of "four twenties" then they'll think old Abe was just talking about getting high. 71.179.249.172 (talk) 08:04, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done Good catch; this concept is discussed at WP:TRITE. Looking further down the article into the body, it implies that attention to the declaration was revived long before the Lincoln's address. I think this diff captures the gist. VQuakr (talk) 08:13, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Only John Hancock and Charles Thomson signed the Declaration on 7/4/1776

A strong argument can be made that John Hancock was the only representative of Congress that signed the fair copy of the Declaration on 7/4 with Secretary of Congress Charles Thomson attesting it, thus explaining why these two names appear on the bottom of the 200 Dunlap broadsides. 2601:589:4705:C7C0:1C96:2508:525A:2F69 (talk) 16:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Then you will need to source it. Doug Weller talk 17:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

"states" replaced by "Colonies:"

Hello, it seems like there may be a mistake in one of the usurpations on the Annotated text of the engrossed Declaration--the word "states" should be replaced with the word "Colonies:" The line in question currently reads, "For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these states," but instead should read, "For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:"

Thank you.

Monture834plaisant (talk) 18:06, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Done As far as I can tell, the requester is correct. I searched the phrasing and found it elsewhere. If I'm mistaken, please revert me. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 00:08, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

References

John Locke's Philosophy in the Declaration

Although this article mentions the belief John Locke influenced the Declaration, this idea is quickly refuted without being supported by textual evidence from 'Two Treatises of Government'. Locke's text read, as mentioned,with many similarities to the Declaration of Independence. His ideas widely influenced America's political platform through the ideas of inalienable rights- a Lockean belief- established in the Declaration, which later led American founders to limit the power of political rulers through separation of powers, a key idea in American constitutionalism. In order to enhance the reader's knowledge of possible Lockean influences within the Declaration, I would like to request the adding of the following information to page five: Locke’s ‘Two Treatises of Government’ explored the idea of inalienable rights, defining these rights as life, liberty, and property. Jefferson later adopted these as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The entire purpose of government, according to Locke was to protect these rights. Locke believed in the social value of the individual, a belief that led his sentiments away from divine rights and towards the importance of consent of the governed (Locke §124). Believing not in the placement of a monarch as the complete embodiment of a country (rather, he believed in the embodiment being in the sentiments of its people), Locke also believed in the importance of maintaining a secular government, to keep worship out of political practices. In order to deepen the equality between average citizen and political elite, executing Locke’s belief in inalienable rights, Americans founded a government upon constitutionalism- the creation of a government with laws to limit the power of politicians. The limit of politicians’ power removes the risk of government members having rights different than those of the average citizen- therefore, making men closer to equals. This importance is key in the Declaration of Independence- a section in which Locke's influence was clearly represented through Jefferson's pen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsut5241 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 16 March 2016 (UTC)