Talk:Attempted assassination of Robert Fico

Moved page to here

Most sources are now describing it as an assassination attempt and not a shooting. Lukt64 (talk) 17:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Would the talk page have to be redirected here too, or just left at that (now) redirect? Sadustu Tau (talk) 18:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

You need to go through WP:RM, not do what you did Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 20:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Variety of English

So is this article going to be in UK english seen as it's Europe? Kiwiz1338 (talk) 18:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I would say so. The Wiki article for Slovakia uses British English, so I would say makes sense for an article relating to the Prime Minister of Slovakia. Sadustu Tau (talk) 18:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Nurg keep in mind WP:TPO Kiwiz1338 (talk) 00:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

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Injuries

The article should update the (severity of the) injuries. Initial reports just said one bullet hit the stomach; then later reports said there was a head injury and other injuries. This information should be known by the medical team already, so assumingly status update may be issued, which should be stored in the wikipedia article as well. 2A02:8388:1643:D680:663F:A873:E90A:DE2A (talk) 18:14, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Would probably require a bit of shuffling around or change of sources since there seem to be contradictory information about that in the article right now. Sadustu Tau (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I believe it would be foolish for us to publish any information that is still highly speculative. Let's wait a little longer. Dingus1233 (talk) 18:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

At the very least, 1 person was injured (Fico). Borgenland (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Motive

I have provided a clear source for the fact that the motive is currently not fully known. Dingus1233 (talk) 18:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

We know the suspect was a member of a liberal party. We know it's a bad look for liberals, so Wiki will probably look to scrub that. 70.53.153.52 (talk) 20:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Source? Lukt64 (talk) 20:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/europe/writer-juraj-cintula-behind-slovak-pm-robert-fico-shooting-local-media-article-110154554 70.53.153.52 (talk) 20:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

what a hilarious response, you're terrible at this JaacTreee (talk) 21:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Slovakia "country’s Interior Ministrer Matus Sutaj-Estok said a preliminary investigation revealed the gunman had a political motivation for the assassination attempt, multiple outlets reported." Notable source:

• https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/05/15/slovakias-prime-minister-robert-fico-shot/?sh=b1db33869054
• https://archive.ph/qRGym

Francewhoa (talk) 20:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Euronews reports that the shooter was associated with a pro-Russian militia, Slovenskí Branci, and his writing was hostile to immigration and Roma. [1] Fences&Windows 20:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

We must remember Wikipedia's rule of 'innocent until proven guilty.' Therefore, we cannot publicize any political motives without being one hundred percent sure of who the exact shooter was. Dingus1233 (talk) 20:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

So, a pro-Russian and anti-immigration militant shooting a pro-Russian and anti-immigration PM. Makes sense. 70.53.153.52 (talk) 20:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Fico ran on a Pro-Russian Pro-Slovak campaign that got him votes from SNS. How much this was acted on is a different story. The media completely blew him out of proportions comparing him to Orban when he is just another populist. At the end of the day we do not know the motive for sure yet so I believe we should wait till there is more information. protoj (talk) 12:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

These reports trace back to a journalist named Panyi. Ukrainian media sources have widely circulated his post from the X/Twitter platform here: https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs

The validity of the image is disputed here: https://x.com/by_their_deeds/status/1791037083924013487

The evidence of his involvement with this group is this picture from a post on Facebook. I've confirmed that this image is either altered or computer generated using the tool here: https://www.fakeimagedetector.com/#google_vignette

I propose removing reference to the background of the shooter and freezing this article until an investigation is conducted and actual evidence is presented. The subject is heavily propagandized by both pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian circles. Debiant (talk) 11:32, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Undiscussed content transfer by Lukt64

I'm trying to get the attention of Wikipidia admins here: @Lukt64 appear to have deleted contents from Shooting of Robert Fico which contained the article's initial history onto this without a discussion and appears to go unnoticed. I am requesting this be deleted and transferred onto the previous one where it can join with its history. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 20:43, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I propose that the shooting be merged here, most sources are calling it an assassination so that it would be consistent Lukt64 (talk) 20:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That is not how you merge contents FYI @Lukt64 Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 20:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm pinging @Zzuuzz because you seem to be the editor in direct conflict with me and not reading any of the messages I'm trying to send to you Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 20:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay I got their message. @Lukt64 the discussion is on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard now Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 20:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the abrupt undiscussed redirect and improper paste by @Lukt64 is problematic and should have been brought up for discussion. This resulted in a poor copy-paste edit that interrupts about 3 hours of activity (160 edits) [2]. It's pretty messy to clean up at this point, so I'm not sure what the best solution is. - Fuzheado | Talk 21:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm astonished nobody raised this issue the moment the editor copy + pasted. Even if it was heavily edited, anyone with this page in their watchlist would've seen over 12K b deleted and replaced. Assuming this was watched by the active editors Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 21:08, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fuzheado I realised we could do a complex history merge performed by an admin. Tho I'm not sure how to do the request for such Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 22:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Fico survived.

They have confirmed Fico is stable and he will survive. Robert Fico shot: Major condition update on Slovakian Prime Minister after assassination attempt - World News - Mirror Online Slovakia PM Robert Fico ‘fighting for life’ after five shots fired in ‘politically motivated’ attack, ministers say – live updates (msn.com) 2607:FEA8:7221:F600:7020:4416:AF63:D069 (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

That's not exactly true. Slovak news report that, however, it hasn't been officially confirmed by the government. The only somewhat reliable source for that is statement of one of ministers (T. Taraba) to BBC. And Wikipedia shouldn't be a news so we can wait. --Pan Někdo (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Name of suspect

Media are now reporting the suspect’s name as Juraj Cintula. [3] 2604:2D80:7186:600:0:0:0:164C (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Not giving a speech

"Fico was giving a speech to a crowd at the time of the shooting."

That's not linguistically correct. He was talking to the crowd and shaking their hands, not a formal speech. 2A00:23C8:4F06:4F01:957F:2FDB:48D3:FEBB (talk) 21:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. Nurg (talk) 00:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Suspect

Are we really allowed to name a suspect at this stage??? Borgenland (talk) 00:51, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Depends if the name has been published in reliable local sources and there is a clear emphasis that it is a suspect of an alleged crime. Local law and law of the editor's country may differ. I can remember Derek Chauvin having a whole page when still a suspect, which I find bizarre. Unknown Temptation (talk) 06:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

It's a mixed bag. There's precedent, certainly with UK articles such as 2023 Nottingham attacks, Murder of David Amess, 2020 Reading stabbings, that the accused's name isn't included until they have been charged with a crime (i.e. the threshold for inclusion is higher than suspicion of a crime), and I'm sure there have been articles where the suspect's name was omitted until there was a conviction. As Unknown Temptation points out above, there are examples where suspects' names are included before charges have been brought. Policy-wise, though, WP:SUSPECT states "editors must seriously consider not including material [...] that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured." This suggests erring on the side of caution. MIDI (talk) 08:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Identity of Deputy Prime Minister

In the "Response" section, it is stated:

Andrej Danko, deputy Prime Minister of Slovakia and leader of the nationalist Slovak National Party, blamed the political opposition and media for the attack and said the country was heading for "political war"

However, the page for Andrej Danko does not list him as Deputy Prime Minister. The list of Deputy Prime Ministers is found in the page for Robert Fico:

Robert Kaliňák

Peter Kmec

Denisa Saková

Tomáš Taraba

Andrej Danko is the leader of the Slovak National Party and Deputy Speaker of the National Council of Slovakia 131.203.73.86 (talk) 01:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. Celjski Grad (talk) 11:25, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

2 shots 1 to stomach and another to joints.

Taraba said one bullet went through Fico's stomach and a second hit a joint.

Taraba said the prime minister “was heavily injured" with one bullet entering his stomach and another hitting the joints.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/robert-fico-slovakia-prime-minister-shooting-05-15-24/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/shooting-after-slovak-government-meeting-tasr-agency-reports-2024-05-15/

Early reports said head shot, but it seems more recent stories are saying there were two shots to stomach and joints, and that he is expected to survive, Article should be amended to remove the head shot claim. Midgetman433 (talk) 02:36, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Site

Is there a publicly available photo of where it happened? Not necessarily taken yesterday? Borgenland (talk) 08:54, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Couldn't find anything on a quick look at Commons:Category:Handlová. Nothing from a CC-BY-SA search of Flickr either... MIDI (talk) 09:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

This memorial is on Namestie Baníkov:

Fences&Windows 12:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully no problems with it. A good caption is the only thing needed for it though. Borgenland (talk) 12:18, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see why this image would be a good addition to the article; it depicts neither the location where the shooting happened (it's not the same part of the square and is looking in the opposite direction) nor the building Fico had been in. Will keep looking as there may be news outlets who have released images with compatable a licence. MIDI (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Article is clearly attempting to paint the suspect as a pro-russian, pro-putin assassin - he is not

He was close to the leftish opposition party Progressive Slovakia, and met with Dennik editor Martin Šimečka (head of the Slovakian branch of the Soros-network) several times

fd9e03b56f83336d9f756aea06f367b5.png (1179×1375) (kepkuldes.com) 85.67.101.104 (talk) 11:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC) https://kepkuldes.com/images/fd9e03b56f83336d9f756aea06f367b5.png

[4]https://tvnoviny.sk/domace/clanok/895210-atentatnik-uz-proti-ficovi-protestoval-prisiel-aj-na-rokovanie-vlady-do-dolnej-krupej

Shooter held pro-ukrainian views. He already attended protests, where he was shouting the well-known nazi slogan "Slava Ukraini" and "Enough of Fico". Stop the spread of lies in the article that he wa pro-russian. 85.67.101.104 (talk) 11:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You’re welcome to create a Wikipedia account and add reliably-sourced information to the article of your own. The section that reports pro-Russian activity by the suspect is sourced from Novinky.cz, which appears to be well written, including pictures and references to facebook posts by Cintula. Celjski Grad (talk) 11:59, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

lmao, you people are insufferable 70.53.153.52 (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean “you people”? Celjski Grad (talk) 12:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

This is plain WP:DENY and WP:NPA. Request immediate block. Borgenland (talk) 12:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

If you feel the need to make the changes necessary, supported by reliable sources and are well-cited, by all means do it. If you run into a conflict, settle civilly. This behavior isn't going to get you anywhere and very certain these editors whom you refer to as "these people" won't entertain you. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 12:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

bro came back after 18 years just to tell us we're insufferable IonlyPlayz2 (talk) 14:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

How is Slava Ukraini a Nazi Slogan?

It just means "Glory to Ukraine" lmao IonlyPlayz2 (talk) 12:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

How is "Za dom spremni!" is a nazi slogan? It just means "for the homeland".

How is "alles für deutchland" is a nazi slogan? It just means " everything for Germany". 85.67.101.104 (talk) 14:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You did not even answer their question. It is a slogan that has been used even before Putin suddenly said it was Neo-Nazi, clearly it is you who is having a serious POV issue. Borgenland (talk) 14:30, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

It wasnt Putin who said it was neo-nazi, it was considered a nazi slogan well before Putin. Learn some History and not from the mainstream media or what you call it on Wikipedia - reliable source :D 85.67.101.104 (talk) 14:47, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

from your sacred Wikipedia : "In April 1941 in German-occupied Kraków, the younger part of the OUN seceded and formed its own organisation, called the OUN-B after its leader Stepan Bandera. The group adopted a fascist-style salute along with calling "Glory to Ukraine!" and responding with "Glory to the Heroes!". 85.67.101.104 (talk) 14:52, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Which was first used before the war and remained used under the Putin-friendly Yanukovych administration, and which is contradicted again in the article as Soviet propaganda. Wha poor WP:CHERRYPICKING skills on your part. Borgenland (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Alles für Deutschland* IonlyPlayz2 (talk) 14:38, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Suspect's connection to Slovenskí Branci - citation links to be added

Article discussing Cintula's connection to Slovenskí Branci:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32742

Slovenskí Branci social media post reposted by journalist Szabolcs Panyi, showing photo of Cintula at a Slovenskí Branci rally in 2016:

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1790789652078526939/photo/1

109.175.107.46 (talk) 12:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Suspect -- maybe NPOV

The section depicts him as pro-Russian. The problem is that later he seemed to change his mind and openly supported current prezident Čaputová (ally of pro-Western opposition) and he rejected Russian agression in Ukraine. (See this Reddit post.) And SME spotted him on pictures from protests against controversial government reforms organized by pro-Western opposition. --Pan Někdo (talk) 13:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

You’re welcome to add your own reliably-sourced information to the article. Celjski Grad (talk) 13:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)