Wikipedia talk:The Wikipedia Library

Access to Open Library through Wikipedia Library

While trying to add missing citations to Aileen Hernandez at Wikidata I could follow the probable source

Black women in America, 2nd ed.

by Darlene Clark Hine

through ISBN to Black_women_in_America at Open Library, which asks for logging in with Internet Archive account. Can I (and if I can, how) log in through Wikipedia Library, for which I seem to be entitled for?

It is probably unrelated, but might be interesting, that the same ISBN at Google books (where I also tried through all three links on Special:BookSources) just returned book not found, where it was - with some fiddling - at least found elsewhere, even if I couldn't look into it to cite from, yet. Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 11:34, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Internet Archive is being sued by publishers, some of which participate in TWL, for providing the exact service you mentioned. Providing access to it through TWL would jeopardize the whole enterprise of TWL. Nardog (talk) 14:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Marjan Tomki SI: That would be the 2005 edition. You can access this directly through OpenLibrary using an OpenLibrary login, which is freely available from the openlibrary.org website. There is no requirement that you have WML access to obtain an openlibrary login.

You can ignore (for the moment, at least) the Hachette lawsuit. Oh, and BTW, be aware that there are often several ISBNs for the same text (presumably different editions if you're talking about the same length ISBN) so it has its purposes, but if the ISBN doesn't allow you to get access, you'll have a hard time being sure that access isn't available using a different ISBN). Fabrickator (talk) 13:21, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Nardog, @Fabrickator: thanks both for answers.

@Nardog: I get the general meaning, but tried to find the meaning of TWL, gut not yet with a success. Google gives a lot of spam garbage on first pages, and I am neither from US cultural area nor a native English speaker, so didn't quess the correct meaning yet.

@fabrickator:

• on Open Library login: I saw it, but didn't see it was free, and because I work on WP intermittently and usually not from the same device, and because for verifying on adding sources for citations I seem to be needing several tens of logins and passwords (and I don't carry logins and passwords with me - e.g. skippering a hired sailboat and training a novice skipper, and after looking for weather data at internet caffe in marina if the weather keeps us ashore I could add something to Wikipedia ;-); that's why I tried through WP library.

I also thought that a lot less documents was digitized in my country than I am now finding is the case. It was google search often giving not found answers when I later found the data could be found targeting more specifically and/or with other tools. When I am working on a specific problem (as now a case about architecture, helping a historian find sources about a particular builder about a century ago, for a peer reviewed publication that will be a reliable source for WP too), I do test if being logged to see if it makes a difference on the results of a search. On that at the moment the result if not yet conclusive.

I find general google is mostly getting unusable for me. Several decades ago I could use logical operators which either don't work any more, or I can't find the proper part of interface that allow it's use. The so called AI seem's to learn from answers that most people click on, which is not what I rarely look for. But it is not only that the info is not on the top pages; if I go more specifically I get that it found no answers (where, as I mentioned above, I have got answers with other tools, when before recently I thought it was not digitized (yet)). I feel if I search for something specific and unusual google silently assumes it's a typo and goes it's way. If there's a source (or project or...) about better searching (and how to evade traps it seems I'm falling in doing it, I'd be deeply thankful for info (or link) on that.

Also, personal internet pages (or pages from personal or family enterprises) go offline (when they die, or stop paying for the space for any other reason), or often loose valuable info after they change ownership. The same often happens with enterprise pages after changes of ownership or changes of enterprise policy. When I made a set of links to such contents (regarding permanent anchoring, nautical) some of best info was on a server o someone doing maricultur; reliable info shared (not only how, but all the necessary why to) with no public relations professional bull shit, about what we should by targeting maximizing sales. When it went offline, I couldn't find anything even remotely like the same. In my eyes it is like Library of Alexandria (again), which was not destroyed by any singular cataclysm, but by slow erosion of mouldering papyri and parchments, which were not copied to new ones in time, because either economic power {to feed the scribes etc.), or will to sustain the library also got eroded. The same entropic process probably is/will be the problem with the info on the Internet.

• On ISBN: I understand each edition gets it's ISBN, and your meaning is that the source having one of edition won't need a redundant other edition, and that's why only one edition was found at one source. At the time I trying that for one of the first times and was not sure if I understood procedure correctly (or the procedure had a problem).

Marjan Tomki SI (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Why is this not available to everyone?

Wikimedia's and Wikipedia's principles are both to share free information accessible by everyone. Doesn't the fact that the Wikipedia Library is locked to a small amount of users contradict this principle? 109.166.136.238 (talk) 17:35, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello anonymous user. ...It can be accessed by registered editors whose account is six months old and has 500 edits. We aim to make access and use of sources free, easy, collaborative and efficient... Cheers. Lotje (talk) 17:37, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

The Library material is not provided by Wikipedia volunteers, nor by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is provided, as a courtesy, by the owners of the copyrights of the material, but only under restricted conditions. The owners would not allow access to their material via the Library by anyone if any random person or bot visiting the site could access it without restriction. - R. S. Shaw (talk) 18:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

ok 2A02:2F0E:106:D00:7994:382A:21CA:A71 (talk) 05:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Any way for alt accounts to access TWL?

Hello, this is HistoryTheorist's alternate account created at a university library. I do not have access to the internet other than a guest research station so I cannot access my main account for a couple hours until I get home. (I will verify this identity when I get home.) Is there any way for alternate accounts of users with access to the Wikipedia Library to gain access on their alt? ResearchTheorist (talk) 22:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@ResearchTheorist I'd love to be able to, but unfortunately we currently only have a mechanism to ignore all library criteria, which would effectively give your alt account access forever, regardless of blocks or recent activity levels. That's undesirable, but you're not the first person to ask about this, so I've filed T361200 - we could imagine having a setting to only ignore the minimum activity thresholds in the future. For now you'll need to stick to using your main account for library access, sorry! Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:22, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh well. I guess I'll have to limit a bit of my Wikipedia research to areas where I can get internet access on my main laptop which will preclude the amount of research I'll can do or I can really get extreme on using my alt so that I can use TWL in October. It was worth an ask though. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Fold3 issues

Is anyone having troubles accessing certain records on Fold3 (eg [1])? I've tried different browsers and incognito mode, but no luck. Connormah (talk) 15:34, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Haaretz English

I can't seem to access Haaretz English articles when accessing through the library. Apparently there's the same problem with the Hebrew site too via the library. Am I doing something wrong or is our access limited? I do seem to be able to see daily updates, but I believe the general public can as well by just going to the regular Haaretz site. Coretheapple (talk) 14:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Just to be a bit more specific: when I use the Wikilibrary link for Haaretz English, I am indeed able to obtain access to Haaretz English. However, I find that this does not give me full access to the articles on the site in most instances.

For instance. Going to the site through the library I can get full access to the article titled "Dancers Fleeing Fake Gunfire at Hamas' Nova Massacre Site? On the Set of Israel's Independence Day Music Video." Going to that through the public website I can only see an excerpt. In this instance the Wikipedia Library site is providing full access. That however is not usually the case.

For instance, if I try to access via the library "Analysis | Two Assassinations, Same Problem: Israel Didn't Think About the Consequences" I get the same limited excerpt I do through the regular public website. That is true for the vast majority of articles I attempt to access via the Wikipedia Library.

Is this a bug or is this simply Haaretz limiting access? Anyone know? Coretheapple (talk) 14:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

The Library on Wikipedia

For some reason, I haven't been able to access the Wikipedia Library, it says I have to have this account for 6 months and to have 500 edits, I mean it's kinda insane to have 500 edits tbh, I have only 100 something edits, and I had the account for what a month, 2 months now? Now, I'm not trying to be rude, you know. Just saying. How do you get 500 edits? Starixxgamerrix (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

By being persistent? If the threshold was lower, it would be too easy to access for the content providers to agree to, and then the Wikipedia Library wouldn't exist at all.Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

True, thanks for that, I will keep on trying Starixxgamerrix (talk) 19:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Bad Request errors

I often get errors like https://academic-oup-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/pnasnexus/article/1/2/pgac048/6575909 showing up as https://academic-oup-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/HTTPHandlers/Sigma/LoginHandler.ashx&client_id=ACADEMIC&state=8cc77f69-008c-45cd-992a-425825b8d29fredirecturl=httpszazjzjacademiczyoupzycomzwwikipedialibraryzwidmzwoclczworgzjCustomErrorzsstatusCodezr404zn404z003Bhttpzazjzjacademiczwoupzwcomza80zjHTTPHandlerszjSigmazjLoginHandlerzwashxznclientzxidzrACADEMICznstatezr88c79896zy3a02zy4fdbzyb6c8zy8a4d5dfc9187redirecturlzrhttpszzazzjzzjacademiczzyoupzzycomzzwwikipedialibraryzzwidmzzwoclczzworgzzjpnasnexuszzjarticlezzj1zzj2zzjpgac048zzj6575909 what is going on with them? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:14, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus Hm, I'm not immediately sure, I can ask our engineers. One common 'bad request' issue can be solved by clearing your cookies for oclc.org so I'd give that a try in the first instance and see if this keeps happening. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 12:05, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

That didn't fix it, sorry. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:17, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I'll get back to you when I've heard from someone who knows more. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus,

As @Samwalton9 (WMF) those invalid request errors tend to pop up when there is a state issue for our proxy in the web browser. The proxying and redirecting requires a set of cookies that can get too large for browsers to handle. That second URL looks like it has truncated data that probably shouldn't have gone into the redirect target. As a troubleshooting step, could you try accessing this resource from another browser, preferably one that you haven't used with the library before? JSherman (WMF) (talk) 18:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Chrome sends me to the login screen rather than the error message, for what it's worth. I am wondering if the cookie maker does not handle redirects gracefully. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:55, 11 April 2024 (UTC)