Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 11

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Changes to Philosophy and religion

I want to add some mythological figures, but since this page over quota, let me nominate some articles for removal before I do that.

Remove Profane (religion)

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Stub. Only has three interwikis, not one of them is French.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Should be covered enough by Sacredness  4. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Sacred space

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Same issues as above.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Repentance in Christianity with Repentance

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Repentance is not just limited to Christianity.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Christian views on marriage

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We don't list the articles on how other religions view marriage.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Chazal

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Stub. Hebrew article isn't that much longer.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Conversion to Judaism

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We don't list the articles on the conversion process of other religions.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Glossary of Islam

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We don't list other glossary articles.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Badawiyya

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Stub here. Stub on Arabic Wikipedia. Article outright states that it has no distinct doctrines from the other Sufi orders.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Ritual purity in Islam

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I think Wudu  5 is enough. We don't even list ritual purification.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

I'm just bringing this here because I can't think any other place to place this. I'm not moving Companions of the Prophet  5 as I did for Rashidun  5, The ten to whom Paradise was promised  5, Ahl al-Bayt  5, and Wives of Muhammad  5. Unlike the others, I feel like the definition of being a member of this group is too broad to be moved to people. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Nirodha

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Yes, it's one of the four noble truths, but I got to be honest, I don't think it should be its own article. Only has 5 interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Five Pure Lights

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Stub. Has zero interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Mahdi (in Abrahamic mythological figures)

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Huge figure in Islamic eschatology.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add The Morrígan

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Popular Celtic goddess. Possibly the inspiration for Morgan le Fay  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Brunhild  5 (to Germanic mythological figures)

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Major Germanic figure and a major character in the Nibelungenlied  4 and Der Ring des Nibelungen  4.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Greek water deities and Chthonic

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Unlike the Twelve Olympians  5, the Titans  4, or even the Greek primordial deities  5, these aren't categories that the ancient Greeks used.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Kalki

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Final avatar for Vishnu  4. Naturally the central figure of Hindu eschatology.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Mitra for Mithra and Maitreya

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I would love to have the parent article of this guy, but his page is a borderline disambiguation one. Swap him out with the two most important forms of this deity. (Mithra is the one that the Mithraists worship, while Maitreya is a central figure in Buddhist eschatology.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

For Maitreya, place him under Buddhist figures. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Freyr (in Norse mythological figures)

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Major god. If we have Týr  5, then surely we can have him.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hel (mythological being) (in Norse mythological figures)

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Ruler of one of the Norses afterlife. Daughter of Loki  5 and sister of Fenrir  5 and Jörmungandr  5. Played a big role in the attempted resurrection of Baldr  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Angels in Christianity, Angels in Islam, and Angels in Judaism

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We already have seven types of angels on here, plus three specific archangels. We don't need the theological views on angels from the three main Abrahamic religions.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:12, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Chiron (under legendary creatures)

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One of the most well-known centaurs.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Devil in Christianity with Iblis

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We already have Lucifer  5 on here, which is strictly a Christian thing. Swap him out with Iblis, the Islamic version of Satan.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:17, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Pure land (under mythical locations)

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Central end goal of followers of Pure Land Buddhism  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Shangri-La  5 for Shambhala

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Shangri-La is probably the better known of the two, but it's a fictional location, not a mythical one. Let's swap it out for what it is probably its inspiration.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Maybe we should have a separate section for fictional locations? (including Middle-Earth and others?) Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Is it worth it though? This and arguably Utopia  4 (although that's more a generic type of setting) are the only fictional locations we have. Also, if we decide to have a fictional location section, it's going have to be put in the arts section. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Imperial Regalia of Japan (under mythical objects)

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These items played a major role in getting Amaterasu  4 out of that cave. (I know the Japanese Imperial House claims that these are actual objects they possess.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Demiurge (under Abrahamic figures)

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Major figure in Gnosticism. Created the universe, but he's not the actual God and he sucks.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Baron Samedi  5 with Lwa (not OP)

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Lwa is the category of deities/spirits in Vodou that includes Baron Samedi. BS was randomly added by me years ago. I was familiar with the name from some movie, but I'm not an expert to know if it's vital enough to keep on the list as an example of lwa.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support addition. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal. Baron Samedi is famous enough to keep on here. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove all individual Sefirot (not OP)

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All 10 under Sefirot  5. Too obscure and esoteric topic, and they take slots from other articles. (Also added by me once)

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint 14:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Crocotta

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This is a very odd inclusion to the legendary creatures section. While almost every other entries has double digit interwikis, this thing only has six.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:31, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 19:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add La Llorona

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Very popular ghost legend from Mexico. (Obviously place it under Ghost  4, but not White Lady  5; most White Lady ghosts aren't malicious as her.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:51, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not so sure, it's rated Low or Mid-importance in all of its Wikiprojects. (So is White Lady, by the way) I would rather support the most famous ghost legends like Flying Dutchman  5, rather than local ones from one country. Makkool (talk) 19:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

   I can support that, but that's more of a ship though. (Although we can put it under locations/items I guess.) SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:10, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Flying Dutchman (under mythical objects)

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Very, very popular maritime ghost legend. Even appeared on SpongeBob SquarePants  5. Placing it under objects since it's a ship that most people don't board.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Is a ghost ship a ghost or a ship? Mythical objects is fine, if it feels weird to list it with mythical creatures. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Penanggalan with Krasue

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Basically the same blood-sucking creature (floating female head plus her internal organs) except this Thai version has more interwikis (15) than her Malay counterpart we're listing right now (8).

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per higher count of interwikis (and pageviews). The Indonesian version Leyak is also quite famous, but is still overshadowed by Krasue. Makkool (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. Plus I have nominated to add the Malay Kuntilanak below. starship.paint (RUN) 15:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Elyon

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Only has 8 interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Yu Shi

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Only has 6 interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Not a major god. starship.paint 14:52, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Ophanim and Throne (angel)

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I hate to remove the goto example of angels not just being humans with wings, but the former only has 9 interwikis while every version of the latter is short.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Kukulkan and Chaac (under Native American figures)

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We don't have anyone from the Mayan pantheon, which is pretty glaring since the Maya are one of the three well-known pre-Columbian civilizations.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. Maybe we could list also the umbrella term Feathered Serpent? And place both Kukulkan and Quetzalcoatl under it? Makkool (talk) 16:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

   That only has 9 interwikis though. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:35, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Pazuzu (under demons in legendary creatures)

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Arguably the most well known demon in Mesopotamian mythology. Appeared in The Exorcist  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 13:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Nāga (under dragons? in legendary creatures)

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Well known creature. Popular throughout South Asia and Southeast Asia. I'm kind of shocked that Penanggalan and to a lesser extent Rakshasa  5 got picked over this. (Regarding its potential placement, I'm not sure if they should be placed under dragons or just be a separate entry. The original Indian are just half-snake, half-human beings, but it does seem like the Southeastern versions of the Nāga have acquired a lot dragon-like traits.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Bake-danuki (under yokai in legendary creature)

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The other popular animal yokai.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:20, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. As vital as Kitsune  5. Makes an appearance in Super Mario Bros 3 too. Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Wild Hunt (under ghosts in legendary creatures?)

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This is more of a motif, so I'm not sure listing this as a type of ghost is the right call. What I do think is that it's a pretty popular… whatever this is throughout Europe.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Major concept in comparative mythology. Maybe list in Mythology:General, when it's not an individual ghost? Makkool (talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

   That sounds like a good place. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:38, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Celtic Otherworld

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Interesting entry, but only has 8 interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:38, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 11:16, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Kuntilanak  5 (under ghost in legendary creatures)

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16 interwikis. Spirit of three Southeast Asian countries. Goes against systemic bias. Plus we are swapping out Penanggalan above from these countries, so good to restore some representation. starship.paint 14:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tláloc to Native American mythology

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42 interwikis. Aztec god of rain, thunder and fertility. Many sacrifices were made to him. starship.paint 15:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 15:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:57, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Mokele-mbembe (under cryptids)

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Let's give Sub-Saharan Africa some representation. Has 35 interwikis, decent-sized, rated top-importance on WikiProject Cryptozoology. (Although it does come from numerous Bantu mythologies, the fact that it is frequently seen a some sort of sauropod pushes it over to the crpytid side.)

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 13:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Human sacrifice (under sacrifice)

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I just realized we don't have this article on here.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 13:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Revenant

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Three. This thing only has three interwikis.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 19:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Rougarou (potential swap for Skin-walker?)

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Only seven interwikis. I guess we can swap it out for skin-walker, but the fact that the Navajo by in large refuse to talk about this creature to outsiders makes it very hard for me to see its article being improved. (Also it's going to have to be listed separately, as it's a type of witch.)

Support

1. Removal only for now. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Remove only Makkool (talk) 19:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Some world's fairs

Add Great Exhibition

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Heralded within the newly constructed The Crystal Palace, millions of people visited the world's fair. This venue served as a showcase for the pioneering innovations of the First Industrial Revolution, namely the Hydraulic press, Steam engine  3, and Spinning machine. Its significance extended far beyond the exhibition, as it became a beacon of enlightenment, spreading a wealth of knowledge and inspiration to nations across the globe. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

   World's fair  4 is a level 4 article, surely examples of world's fair merit an inclusion in level 5. The Blue Rider 10:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

   I would support swapping World's fair for Exhibition  5 at level 4. Plus, we have many articles listed at V4 for which we don't list subtopics or examples at V5. I guess I just generally support having more common noun topics and less Proper noun  5 ones. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Exposition Universelle (1889)

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Like the Great Exhibition, the world's fair drew in millions upon millions of visitors. The event saw the birth of iconic landmarks like the Eiffel Tower  4. Renowned figures such as Thomas Edison  3 and Nikola Tesla  3 were present. The fair served as a way to spread of knowledge, inspiring the generations to come. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add World's Columbian Exposition

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The same rationale as the previous ones but applied to the United States.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Exhibition  5

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The parent topic to World's fair  4 and to some extent Convention center  5 (because they can host both Convention (meeting)  5 and exhibitions). Should be listed before we add individual world's fairs imo.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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(not OP) Add Art gallery  5

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A common venue for the exhibition of Visual arts  2, in the same vein as Museum  3, World's fair  4, or Convention center  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty

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I get we already list Metal Gear  5 and Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game)  5, but Sons of Liberty is a league of its own for completely different reasons than those two. It completely changed the ways video games told stories, and it did so through political themes that went on to make it possibly the most analyzed video game in history (and one look at the themes and analysis section will prove that). These themes especially gained prominence in the 2010s and 2020s, since this game basically predicted them and is still considered a politically relevant game (so, to a certain extent, RECENTISM doesn't apply here). It is believed to have heavily influenced the vital BioShock  5 and Portal (video game)  5, and is considered a reason the PlayStation 2  5 became the best selling video game console of all time. It was even included as part of the final exhibition for The Art of Video Games, so while the article doesn't specifically state it is, this game could be considered a representation on this list for video games as an art form. I'd say this is a more influential video game than the aforementioned BioShock and Portal, and is absolutely worthy of V5.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 05:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Definitely has a lot of influence in videogames and even the real world. 49p (talk) 01:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap Rogue (video game)  5 for this. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:48, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Makkool (talk) 13:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

   Could you elaborate further on your issues with this proposal and the one above? λ NegativeMP1 14:57, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

   I don't doubt your justifications for how this is an important video game, but still I would be wary of adding a sequel video game. Maybe as a swap with some other video game I could reconsider. Also, I would choose some other example of an art video game that's not a franchise title. Makkool (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'm not really sure if there's any option that'd be a better one than this, though if an alternate one was proposed I'd probably support it. λ NegativeMP1 17:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Very influential, but the bar for it to be listed seperately is very high when we already list Metal Gear and MGS and I don't think it quite meets that. Iostn (talk) 12:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
3. I'm extremely averse to having video game subentries, because A) they overlap with the parent franchise and I generally prefer breadth over depth (for example, maybe we should add Fate/stay night because we have no Visual novel  5 listed yet), and B) I'm afraid of a slippery slope and I think the existing subentries have already set a bad precedent.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Swap: Remove The Legend of Zelda (video game)  5, add Stardew Valley

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I foresee some opposition here, so let me explain.

First, removing the original Zelda. While it is pretty popular, I'm not sure if Zelda warrants three subentries. Of the three, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time  5 is the one that I would cut last. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild  5 arguably has had enough of an impact on the games that have come out since, including the likes of Genshin Impact and Elden Ring, to stay on the list. That leaves the original, which I feel can have its impact mostly covered by the series article. It helped create the Action role-playing game  5 subgenre, but the rest of the game's impact mostly boils down to starting the series, which can be covered by the series. Besides, we need less subentries.

Now for the addition. I do not believe we currently include any farming simulators, and non-racing simulators in generally are mostly covered by just The Sims  5. We also have only Minecraft  5 for the Indie game  5 scene, and Minecraft barely counts anymore after the Microsoft purchase. Stardew Valley fits in both, and is also one of the best-selling video games of all time, as well as being considered one of the greatest. The game brought farming simulators from the minor, forgotten subgenre it was before to the indie behemoth it is today.

In summary, both games had a major impact on their genre, and both games are considered among the greatest, but Zelda is one of four listings for the series while Stardew Valley sold many more copies and adds more variety to the list. If you only support the addition or the removal, that is fine, but I think both would be good changes to the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   Noting for the record that I oppose removing Breath of the Wild since it had more of an impact than just starting the Zelda series. If there is not a consensus to remove the first Zelda, I would be fine with a straight add. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'd like to point out that Zelda 1986 had a larger impact than just starting the franchise. It promoted non-linear gameplay and using the fantasy genre in Japanese console games. The article has an extensive "Legacy" section to indicate this. BotW is indeed innovative, but it's only a 7 years old game, so too recent. Makkool (talk) 19:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'll go neutral on the Zelda removal for now, although I still think we should keep BOTW. What are your thoughts on the addition? QuicoleJR (talk) 19:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   I wouldn't oppose it. I'm a bit sceptical, if it will pass. We recently voted to remove Undertale, which is also a recent indie game that's critically and commercially successful. Makkool (talk) 20:00, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Support removal, currently neutral on addition (I'm wondering whether it'd be better to re-add Touhou Project to cover indie games, from a recentism perspective?)--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   Touhou Project doesn't really have anything going for it besides being really popular for some time, so I'm not sure whether it could make the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:02, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

3. Weak support addition, but unsure if it would be second to Minecraft in indie games. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. cut Breath of the Wild instead, neutral on add Makkool (talk) 18:02, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Same opinion as makkool· Kevinishere15 (talk) 19:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. I actually do think LoZ deserves to have three franchises. Neutral regarding SV. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Neutral

Discuss

1. I would add FNAF to represent indie games due to its cultural impact, but it recently failed and could be considered recentism. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:21, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   The main reason I picked Stardew Valley is because it had more than just cultural impact. Most other options did not have the impact on the gaming industry that Stardew Valley did. It also has the bonus of being one of the best-selling games of all time and one of the greatest. Most other options for indie game listings, like FNaF, are just really popular, which doesn't cut it. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   FNAF has had little to no actual impact on the indie game scene beyond a cult following and being a successful franchise. There's very few indie games I feel like are worthy of V5, though Stardew might be one of them. I'll add that I think Papers, Please would be worthy of V5 as well, since it would be an example of Video games as an art form. Maybe as a separate proposal. λ NegativeMP1 20:36, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

   I would support re-including Papers Please. I distantly remember that it's been on the list years ago. Makkool (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

2. I want to take this opportunity of discussing indie game representation on this list to bring up a list I made a while ago for what I view to be the most important indie games, the "indie game canon" as I named it. This list was obviously made by me and my own opinions (though I did my best to try and make it objective), but if anyone is opposed to Stardew Valley's inclusion (which I'm on the fence about myself), then I think Tier 1 and 2 on this list are good places to start for different options for indie representation. λ NegativeMP1 01:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

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Subtopics of Management  3

Add Property management  5

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Place under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Asset management  5

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Place under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:55, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support but disagree with placing it as a subtopic of management, which in its default and common meaning refers to managing people. Asset management is a subtopic of corporate finance (a key service that many banks and other financial institutions perform around the world). Gizza (talk) 23:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Customer relationship management  5

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Place under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support - to have companies like Oracle Corporation  5 who mainly sell CRM software as a company listed but not the overarching concept itself is wrong. Gizza (talk) 01:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Enterprise resource planning  5

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Place either under Resource  5 or Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Human resource management  5

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Place either under Resource  5 or Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Library and information science  5

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Place under Education on the Culture page?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Wanted to propose this myself a few weeks back and completely forgot so thanks for this (though I think the page should just be renamed to library science). Aurangzebra (talk) 06:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Risk management  5

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Place under Management  3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Decision-making  5

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Compare Problem solving  5 (although this is more of a psychology topic rather than a technology one).

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. 19:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 00:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Crazy in Love with Hey Ya!

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I will admit, I’ve been going overboard with my specific musical works suggestion, so this is going to be my last one for the time being. It is sort of weird to nominate something that’s not representative of the artist usual work (of Outkast’s possible vital works that are, you know, hip-hop, it’s either “B.O.B” or Aquemini), but this song is still being praised to high-heaven as being one of the greatest songs ever made. It was already noticeable for being the youngest song to appear on the Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time when it was ranked at #182; the newest version has this at #10. To make up for my lack of swaps in my proposals, I volunteer “Crazy in Love” for removal, as that song came out the same year as this.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 11:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:02, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

• What makes Hey Ya! more vital than B.O.B or Ms. Jackson? The Blue Rider 15:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

  Again, the massive amount of praise it gets compared to those songs. I will say though that it does look like "B.O.B" is getting more critical acclaim as time goes on. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

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Do you guys ever think about dying?

Add Deathcare

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An important healthcare industry. Only 1 interwiki and 13 daily views last year – I'm surprised, but I guess it's because the term "deathcare" is more of an American concept. Is there something I'm missing here?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Morgue and Funeral  4 should already cover this. The Blue Rider 10:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Funeral home  5

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A common business worldwide, more important than e.g. Motel  5 I'd say.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Morgue  5

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An important type of facility which helps preserve bodies.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Columbarium  5

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The modern equivalent to Mausoleum  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cadaver  5

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A dead human body, also known as a corpse. Can be used by students and scientists to study anatomy and diseases, and also has a major role in popular culture. Probably more of a medicine/biology topic but since I'm doing a bulk nomination I'll place it here anyway.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Put in Medicine. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
6. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Crisis  5

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A common broad concept denoting situations where a person or a group of people face psychological stress. This can go under Psychology, or it can go under Society (next to Disaster  5).

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Existential crisis  5

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Why do we live? An existential crisis is a feeling that most people will experience at some point in their life. Hugely influential in society and culture.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:18, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Ambient 1: Music for Airports

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The "Electronic" section of "Modern Music" is surprisingly shallow. Only 3 recordings compared to Hip-Hop (13) and Pop (23). We even list two electronic musicians at VA4: Brian Eno  4, and Kraftwerk  4.

This suggestion is going off the philosophy of NegativeMP1's philosophy where "nearly all subjects at Vital 4 should have at least one subtopic at Vital 5" (see quote here). We currently list three recordings: Trans-Europe Express (album)  5, Discovery (Daft Punk album)  5, and Blue Monday (New Order song)  5. They are all reasonably vital (maybe you could argue that the last one isn't vital enough cause New Order (band) isn't vital). Eno is subjected to at least one album, given that Kraftwerk  4 has one. So we should select the album that people say "defined" the ambient genre. I would also argue that Aphex Twin  5's Selected Ambient Works 85–92 can also be added. But for right now, we should start here.

Support

1. Support 49p (talk) 19:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk)<
3. λ NegativeMP1 20:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Fuck tha Police  5 (potential swap with Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang  5)

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We have three hip-hop songs: Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang  5, The Message (Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five song)  5, and Rapper's Delight  5. I think we can add one more. Fuck tha Police is probably one of the most controversial hip-hop songs, with it getting a letter from the FBI and extensive media attention. The article definitely needs some work, but I think the song is important enough to be added and has a lasting legacy. We can swap with Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang  5 if necessary.

Support

1. Support + Swap per nom 49p (talk) 01:53, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Support add Makkool (talk) 13:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support add, don't think a swap is necessary. I think more genre diversity should be welcomed. λ NegativeMP1 17:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support addition. Will also support a swap with Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang if needed. I do think that this is a case of a track being just as vital as its parent album. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Other than the name being famous and the controversy, I think Straight Outta Compton as a whole is probably further up there. If you want to swap Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang  5) with an individual song, I think the best pick may be Gangsta's Paradise. Iostn (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

   I don't think Gangsta's Paradise would be a good swap. The song is just a one-hit wonder (we don't even list Coolio as vital). The song being best-selling does add some merit to be vital. I don't think it'll be good enough for a swap, but could be added (weak support from me).

   If we want to swap, maybe we could do Fight the Power (Public Enemy song). It's not as big as Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang or Fuck the Police, but it has a bunch of accolades (#2 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time is a big one). 49p (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Personal finance  5

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Place under Finance  3?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add United Artists

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Founded by D. W. Griffith  4, Charlie Chaplin  3, Mary Pickford  4, and Douglas Fairbanks  5, this used to be one of the major studios.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I don't think we should list any American film studios beyond the current major studios. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Party time!

Remove Mint julep

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Not on the same pair as, say, sex on the beach, cosmopolitan, margarita, piña colada. Not a widely drank cocktail, since its too contained in Southern United States. Only 17 interwikis links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Niche cocktails need to go Gizza (talk) 02:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Tennessee whiskey

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Too american centric, especially when we already list American whiskey  5. According to the article, it is legally defined as Bourbon whiskey  5 in some international trade agreemeents, so the overlap is big. Not a major type of whiskey in general; only 14 interwikis links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:38, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Canadian whisky

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Not a major type of whiskey in any measure, not on the same pair as, say, Irish whiskey  5, Bourbon whiskey  5 nor Scotch whisky  5. Only 13 interwiki links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove White Russian (cocktail)

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Not on the same pair as, say, sex on the beach, cosmopolitan, margarita, piña colada. Only 23 interwiki links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Punch (drink)

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Widely drank worldwide, with an history that dates back to colonial times. 47 interwiki links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Caipirinha

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Brazilian cocktail that its part of the cultural identity of the country. 39 interwiki links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Rated mid-importance Makkool (talk) 21:21, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Sangria

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Extremely famous drink in Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries, so signficant that its part of the cultural identities. 50 interwiki links.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:12, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Makkool (talk) 21:21, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Add The Rose of Versailles, remove Cardcaptor Sakura

The former is decades older and has better claims of vitality, and they have sold a similar amount. Cardcaptor Sakura feels a somewhat questionable inclusion to me, seeming not quite popular/acclaimed/influential/famous enough to be preferred over something like Berserk (manga) or even Monster (manga) (which are scored into the top 10 of various manga sites by their users).

(I initially thought about replacing Cardcaptor with Berserk but eventually decided on a shoujo-shoujo swap, and I'm wondering a bit whether some of Berserk's vitality claims might be too inspired by the 2021 death of its author.)

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

No votes in a long time. If this proposal goes nowhere I may propose a swap with Berserk (manga) instead.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Remove Market fundamentalism

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A mostly negative term that overlaps with Neoliberalism  5. I personally have not heard this one in a while.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:56, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Daedalus

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The creator of the laybrinth and father of Icarus  5. The Blue Rider 21:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 21:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Famous enough to be V5, MHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 13:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication

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Major oversight! This is how international economical cooperation is made possible. The Blue Rider 15:34, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 15:34, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. This is more widely known by its acronym, SWIFT, which is massive in international payments. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add We Will Rock You

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Since my attempt to remove "We Are the Champions” failed, I am now advocating for the addition of "We Will Rock You". Again, I don't think you can choose one song over the other; these songs are almost always played back to back.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. We Are the Champions and We Will Rock You are admittedly closely linked. However, the former has significantly more long-lasting cultural impact.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:33, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
2. I might support a swap with some other song, but oppose a straight-up addition. We are getting over-quota in Arts. Makkool (talk) 16:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. I'd argue that WWRY is the most well-known song in the Western world (outside of your Happy Birthday's and children's music and Christmas music and all that stuff), but as Makkool and NegativeMP1 have pointed out, this section is getting too big. IMO, instead of adding WWRY, WAtC should be replaced with News of the World, arguably Queen's most well known album, and the album that contains both of these songs (not to mention NotW gets more pageviews than either of these songs). JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. I fully agree that this song is V5 worthy, but per above comments, artists and associated works is an extremely bloated area and its making me hesitant to support an addition without super good reasoning. If we can have five or six different albums from The Beatles  3, I think we can have a third song from Queen (band)  4. On the other hand though, music could probably use a full cleanup, like what we just did video games. λ NegativeMP1 02:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add Narcissus (mythology)

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Highly popular and prevelant caracther created by Ovid  4's Metamorphoses, a name that has become a byword for self-love.

Support

1. As nominator.The Blue Rider 19:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per. nom Makkool (talk) 12:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 14:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Biographical film  5

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Biopics are a major film genre. Biography  4, a parent topic, is at V4.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add By-product  5

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A common concept in manufacturing and chemistry.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 09:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:40, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Gedenkdienst for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh

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Gedenkdienst is a rather confusing article that can't seem to decide if its about Austria's Holocaust memorial organization or a specific phrase, but either way there isn't really anything here that seems to suggest its as important as say, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum  5, and the pageviews are very low for VA5 as well. Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is one of the largest, oldest and most alarmingly influential nationalist paramiliatry organizations in the world that exerts a large degree of influence over Indian politics.

Support

1. Iostn (talk) 21:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Renaissance architecture in Central and Eastern Europe

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Sufficiently covered by Renaissance architecture  4. .

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Sparse article and 2 interwikis only. starship.paint (RUN) 03:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 09:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Chop Suey (Hopper)

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This only really seems to be listed for being the most expensive work by the artist, whereas his most well-known is the also-listed Nighthawks (Hopper)  5.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 16:35, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Swap for Chop suey. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:37, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Yuri (genre)  5

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The counterpart to the recently added Yaoi (doesn't display right since it was added two minutes ago), which depicts same-sex relationships between women instead of men.

Support

1. As nom. λ NegativeMP1 21:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 12:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Gold panning  5

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A gold extraction technique among many.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint 15:10, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Major influence in pop culture, which our article neglects to mention. There are plenty of other things we can remove first. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. I still feel like I see recreations of these things. Too well known to remove imo, even if they are never used anymore. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:45, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
3. An important historical practice that continues today as a hobby. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Why is this being proposed? Iostn (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

   Too niche. The politics and economics section is above quota, yet there are still some fairly basic proposals (see mine below). Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add Share (finance)  5

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One of the most essential concepts of financial markets. The concepts of Shareholder  5 and Shareholder activism  5 derive from it.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:23, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint. 02:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Coup d’etat

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We list a lot of coups in the history section (and several have occurred in recent years). Coups can significantly impact political stability, governance, human rights, and, obviously, democracy.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Wow, super glaring omission. This is V4 stuff. The Blue Rider 21:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per The Blue Rider, this might be a contender for the most crucial concept we don't list. This could probably be nominated for V4 if it passes here. λ NegativeMP1 21:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
4. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 23:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Strong support per above, most certainly V4 as well. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
6. Should certainly be VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• @Tabu Makiadi: As the nominator, do you have any ideas for where this should go? I have been wanting to close it for a while now, but I'm not sure where to put it. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

1. @QuicoleJR: I think it should go into the general "Politics" section of Politics and government. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:40, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Hoarding with Hoarding disorder  5

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The disorder is much more vital than the general behavior. Place to health and fitness section with other mental disorders. Makkool (talk) 11:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 11:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 04:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Slalom skateboarding and Street luge

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Skateboarding  4 has five subsections. That's a bit too much in my opinion. Skateboarding should have only three subsection: vert, freestyle, and street. They're all different, but three distinct styles that are the most common in skateboarding.

Slalom skateboarding isn't that vital, in fact it gets the lowest page views from these five. I don't think this is a controversial removal. It's definitely known and has some competitions but it didn't really define one of the style of skateboarding (it was one of the first competitions that was made for skateboarding, but didn't grow much after that). Street luge is that one fun thing you want to do as a kid and pray your fingers don't get chopped from the wheels of your skateboard. Other than being dangerous, it didn't really influence skateboarding or is vital at all. It did have some time of being a sport for X Games  5, but it was removed after some time.

Support

1. per nom. 49p (talk) 07:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 16:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:29, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Old Nubian

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Old Nubian is the oldest written non-Afroasiatic african language and is the most famous member of the Nubian languages. Adding another language like this would increase the number of language families represented in the vital article list which in my opinion is something valueable. The kingdom of Makuria (in which Old Nubian was spoken) is also already a level 5 article, so I don't see any historical reason why this isn't significant enough. ZKevinTheCat (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Nom
2. Per nom. Very interesting topic, we could list a few more under-represented historical languages. Makkool (talk) 06:49, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 14:01, 9 June 2024 (UTC)sp

Oppose

Discuss

@ZKevinTheCat: Please add the customary support as nominator vote on future vital nominations. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Galaga

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There was some indication to remove this instead of Asteroids (video game)  5 in an earlier proposal of mine. With that and Space Invaders  5 already listed, I think arcade-era shooters may be slightly overrepresented. Galaga's contributions/influence seem iterative rather than revolutionary; it's acclaimed, yes, but we've already removed games for mere acclaim (like the more famous Planescape: Torment and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (video game)). It has references in pop culture, but that either doesn't convince me it deserves to be listed ahead of the likes of Prince of Persia, Diablo (series), Fate/stay night, Ace Attorney...

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak support, I would oppose if the company Namco  5 wasn't vital, but since it is, I guess their influence is fairly well covered here. Pac-Man  5 is definitely vital, though. λ NegativeMP1 17:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Speaking of Pac-Man, it would be my first pick if another video game or franchise was listed at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
5. I would say this is among the least important games we haven't removed yet. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
6. Weak support only because Space Invaders is already listed. Then again, if Frogger was removed, then so can this. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cross Road Blues

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This should have been the one that I nominated rather than King of the Delta Blues Singers. This song plays a huge part in the "Robert Johnson  4 selling his soul to the Devil" mythos. Probably the most famous Delta blues song, got twelve interwikis, and got covered by Eric Clapton  5.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Support add Makkool (talk) 08:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support add. λ NegativeMP1 16:54, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Paul's Boutique  5

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I think we can squeeze in one more hip-hop album. Paul's Boutique influenced hip-hop production and overall the golden age of hip-hop. With the lead saying it sometimes referred as the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band  4 of hip-hop," I think this is a reasonably add.

If we get this added and Fuck Tha Police (discussion here), I think the hip-hop and rap section of modern music would be good enough to be "complete." Not much to add really from this genre IMO other than maybe Fight the Power (Public Enemy song)

Support

1. per nom 49p (talk) 21:44, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per 49p. Also, it's currently rated Top-importance in Wikiproject Hip hop Makkool (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
4. λ NegativeMP1 21:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hit 'Em Up (and also Diss (music))

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You know who needs representation? Tupac Shakur  4. He's the only rapper we have at level 4 (although thankfully it looks like Run-DMC will be joining him soon) and we don't have any music from him listed. You know what else needs representation? Diss tracks. Whether they should or not, they play a major role in the hip-hop scene, as evidenced by this year with tracks like "Not Like Us" getting released. That's why out of all of 2Pac's music, I'm nominating "Hit 'Em Up". The epitome of the East Coast–West Coast hip hop rivalry, this has frequently been cited as one of the greatest diss tracks of all time, and also one of the most vicious as well. Rated high-importance on the Hip-Hop Wikiproject.

(We should also make diss (music) vital as well.)

Support

1. Support both. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Support both, per nominator. I'm actually surprised diss tracks aren't vital right now. λ NegativeMP1 20:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Hit em Up, neutral on Diss track. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support diss, not sure about Hit em Up. Kevinishere15 (talk) 01:29, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Neutral on Hit 'Em Up, support Diss 49p (talk) 06:28, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
6. Support diss, would rather add California Love for Tupac. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 02:02, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose both. Diss tracks feel a bit niche topic to consider vital. A song at V5 shouldn't have this narrow scope, so I wouldn't oppose something else from Tupac that had wider cultural impact. Makkool (talk) 21:19, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

   I would not be calling diss tracks too niche. They have played a major part in hip-hop since 1984 with the release of "Roxanne's Revenge". That's forty years of "being a niche". It has certainly lasted longer than Beatboxing  5, whose cultural relevance did not made it to the 90s. (NOTE: This is not an advocacy for removing beatboxing.) Also, while it is primarily associated with rap music, technically speaking any artist can release a diss track. "How Do You Sleep? (John Lennon song)" and "Bad Blood (Taylor Swift song)" are prominent examples of diss tracks that aren't hip-hop songs (Kendrick being a featured artist in the remix of the latter notwithstanding.) SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:57, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

   And this isn't even getting into how some of the biggest songs of the year so far are diss tracks, specifically Euphoria (Kendrick Lamar song) and especially Not Like Us. I can't see how diss tracks are "niche", they are very much relevant. λ NegativeMP1 02:55, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Changes to Communication

Add Applause  5

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 37 interwikis. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Cheering

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 6 interwikis. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not a vital concept, more like a dictionary entry. The Blue Rider 23:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Per The Blue Rider, plus I think listing Cheerleading  5 adequately covers the concept as applied to real life. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Booing  5

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 12 interwikis. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not that common, mainly confined to a couple of places like sports. The Blue Rider 23:05, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Environmental communication

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6 interwikis only. We already have Science communication  5 with 19 interwikis. starship.paint 14:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Frown  5

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 9 interwikis. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
5. 3df (talk) 01:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. It might be somewhat common but is the concept of frowning that encyclopedical to warrant vital status? I don't think so. The Blue Rider 23:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Wink  5

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 21 interwikis. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Blushing  5

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Common Nonverbal communication  4. 31 interwikis. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 14:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. λ NegativeMP1 18:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Subtopics of Construction  3

Add Building material  5

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Works well as an overview article.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add General contractor  5

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A common entity in the process of construction

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Subcontractor  5

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Another common entity involved in construction

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Real estate development  5

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One of the most common processes around the world.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Prosthetic makeup

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This is important enough for an Academy Award to be dedicated to it.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Don't really have a great explanation for why I oppose besides the fact that this just seems much less important than the other film topics we currently list. Prosthetic makeup feels like a part of the movie making experience in the same way that craft service is: it is ubiquitous in movie productions but not necessarily a V5-vital topic. And the Academy Award category is for makeup/Cosmetics  4 in general, not just prosthetic makeup. Aurangzebra (talk) 11:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

   I guess the main difference is that the audience can see prosthetic makeup as it is applied, whereas craft service is more of a backstage thing that readers are less likely to care about. But point taken regarding this being relatively niche among film topics compared to what we currently list. feminist🩸 (talk) 11:48, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Swap World Trade Center (1973–2001) for World Trade Center site

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I think the site in general is more vital than the twin towers themselves. Interstellarity (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 03:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, the twin towers were absolutely vital for their architecture. Makkool (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
2. What? Are you saying that the World Trade Center which had a massive impact on the foreign and domestic policy of the USA isn't vital but instead the plot of land is?! The Blue Rider 16:45, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
3. per Makkool. starship.paint (RUN) 10:35, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

1. Where do you think this article about the site would be placed? If it's about a plot of land in New York, it can't be in architecture with other buildings. Makkool (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

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Visual arts general article removals

Remove Text comics

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An early form of comics without speech bubbles. A niche topic, with 300 or so page views in the last 30 days.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Burnishing (pottery)

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A specific technique used in making pottery. A short stub article on a niche topic, which isn't vital to understand the whole concept of pottery.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Bone carving  5

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An important form in prehistoric art, but Ivory carving is a much more vital topic as a whole and we don't list it. Would possibly swap, or rather just remove.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Panoramic painting with Chiaroscuro  5

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Replacing a less notable form of painting with a well known art concept.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Coiling (pottery) with Objet d'art

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Replacing another specific technique of pottery with a popular form of art. Also more notable in terms of monthly page views.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support removal per above but not sure about the addition, 5 interwikis only.. starship.paint 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove 99 Bottles of Beer

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Cutting back on the music articles - this is just such a random article to list.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 21:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Never even heard of this before. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 21:58, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. 8 interwikis. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Not a terribly obscure song, not big enough to be listed though. Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Hoax  5 to Interpersonal relations

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Relevant to politics, at least.

Support

1. as nom. starship.paint 10:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Originally proposed by LaukkuTheGreit. starship.paint 12:15, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Consumer behaviour  5

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Place either under Psychology or Business

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:05, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Either this article for behavioral economics is fine. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose, would prefer to add behavioral economics instead since it's more broad. The Blue Rider 13:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Subscription business model  5

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Subscriptions are a big and growing thing in business.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Patriarchy  5

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Seems like an obvious oversight, an extremely widespread social system. The Blue Rider 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. I hesitate to agree that "an extremely widespread social system" is automatically grounds for vitality inclusion. Patriarchy is a term that can be applied to many social systems, but it's one of many terms; it's similar to, say, Capitalism  3 or Democracy  3 in this regard. Not all such terms which can be used to describe "extremely widespread" phenomena are vital. But in any case, patriarchy is a major concept in both anthropology and sociology which is suitable for V5. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint 09:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Important. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:34, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 14:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Supporting. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 01:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
8. Obvious. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 12:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Superpower  5, Great power  5, and Middle power to Politics under Political Science, or something similar.

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Superpower describes a state or supranational union that holds a dominant position characterized by the ability to exert influence or project power on a global scale. A great power is a sovereign state that is recognized as having the ability and expertise to exert its influence on a global scale. A Middle power is a state that is not a superpower or a great power, but still exerts influence and plays a significant role in international relations. These three concepts are used very often to describe countries in geopolitical discussions, which most of you are probably familiar with. All three pages are class articles. Superpower has 1,075 daily average page views, Great power has 885 Daily average page views, and Middle power has 481. While page views aren't the only metric to use, this does show the pages do get some attention.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 18:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As Nom GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 18:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support great power, superpower. The Blue Rider 18:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support great power, superpower per nom. starship.paint 07:56, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Support great power, superpower. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose middle power; would prefer to add regional power since it is a more commonly used terminology in International Relations. The Blue Rider 18:28, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

@The Blue Rider:, I know that page views are not the best metric for importance, but regional power has an average of 168 daily page views compared to the 481 for Middle power linked above. This made me think that Middle power was the more popular term. Do you have a source on this? Also, a regional power can include great powers and middle powers in my understanding, so the two terms are not synonyms. What defines a regional power will depend on the relative power of the region it is in. Therefore, this could be "both" situation rather then "either-or," and we could try to get both regional and middle power listed. Do you have a source for which one is "more commonly used" in international relations?GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 19:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

My source is my International Relations' bachelor's; from the literature I have read, regional power is used more often than middle power. Google Ngram agrees with me as well. The Blue Rider 12:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll remember Google Ngram as a source for this! Thanks for responding! I have a minor in national security, and wrote a term paper on "Middle powers" back during undergrad. As one of the only geographers in the course, I was focused on the "super power", "great power", "middle power", and "Small powers." My career has taken me far from this area of study, so I'm not exactly an expert.

I would argue based on what I'm seeing now that the "powers" I listed are based on global influence, while "regional power" would be local geographic. A power like China, (Which is debatably a superpower, and obviously a great power), is more of a "regional power" in terms of military. Thus, a country can be both a middle power and regional power, or a middle power but not a major regional power, such as the situation with Canada where they are overshadowed in many ways by their neighbor to the south. I'm not really married to that opinion though. We may need to consider adding the page Power (international relations). GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 18:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Most academics argue that world is now multipolar, the United States is losing its status as the sole superpower, China and European Union are ascending to the ranking of superpower. That seems like a good suggestion, there are plenty of other important topics missing from International Relations: hard power, soft power, smart power, realism (international relations), Idealism in international relations, Constructivism (international relations), realpolitik, among many others. The Blue Rider 18:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

• On the subject of middle powers, should we remove all countries from V3 that do not fall into at least that category? Is the DRC vital for more than just population? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

  • I would not feel comfortable weighing in on that question one way or the other, that is quite the debate. Just clearly defining what countries are true "Middle Powers" is beyond the literature I'm aware of on the topic, which is admi. Nobody even agrees what the superpowers are, or the great powers (check the talk pages, even with sources people will fight tooth an nail over who they think should or should not be included). It could also be argued that a country is vital for more reasons then it's ability to influence geopolitics on the global stage, and that millions of people with a unique culture and government are "vital." On the DRC, the Wikipedia page notes that "The DRC is widely considered one of the world's richest countries in natural resources; its untapped deposits of raw minerals are estimated to be worth in excess of US$24 trillion. The DRC has 70% of the world's coltan, a third of its cobalt, more than 30% of its diamond reserves, and a tenth of its copper." I suspect most countries have stuff that jumps out like this that would make them "vital" to understanding geopolitics. I would likely set something like "The top 100 by population, top 100 by GDP, top 100 by land area, and all states with nuclear weapons can be included as "V3"" if I was going to have an actual rule for how to sort inclusion of countries. You could adjust the numbers if you want, but I bet that would get you slightly around 120 of the 195 countries. I don't have much of a strong opinion on this though.

  GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 05:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

  I would support a few more countries at V3, namely Iraq, Peru, Afghanistan, Morocco, and possibly Austria, but I'd prefer regions over some mid-sized countries, such as Scandinavia  4 instead of Sweden, definitely the Balkans  4 instead of Romania or Greece, Central America  4 instead of Guatemala, Central Asia  4 instead of Kazakhstan, etc. My main priority for V3 is adding more cities. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Power (international relations), Hard power  5, and Soft power  5

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The influence and capability of a state in the international stage. Hard power and soft power are the two main ways of exerting power by states. Mentioned in #Add Superpower, Great power, and Middle power to Politics under Political Science, or something similar. above.

Support

1. As nominator. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support hard power and soft power; the power article should already be sufficiently covered by these two. The Blue Rider 11:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Support hard power and soft power per TBR. starship.paint (RUN) 08:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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