Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Yorkshirian

Other statements

Statement by uninvolved bwrs

This seems to be a relatively minor dispute, at least as compared with some of the other things that I have seen in WP:RFAR. I recommend that the cabal have a crack at this before the Committee takes the case. In the alternative, I recommend some combination of mentorship and short-term blocking. Bwrs (talk) 04:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Statement by Ncmv

I remember passing by this when in the second WQA complaint. I'd have presented this at the noticeboard and suggested a civility restriction as a start, however, the community remains reluctant to act on incivility - and sometimes finds it difficult to enforce such a restriction even when found by the Committee. ArbCom does need to take this case.

I suspect the problem is not limited to this user alone, but regardless, I request that the Committee look into other ways of dealing with this problem and make them as proposals at workshop - I still don't have any ideas at the moment outside of the traditional remedies, including civility parole. Ncmvocalist (talk) 04:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Statement by Messedrocker

• When referring to governmental things, only use the current, recognized names of regions.
• For cultural situations, refer to them as "Yorkshire" only if said cultural doodad calls itself the Yorkshire Whatever. Else, default to the current legal regional name (national, county, local, whatever may be in between).
• Restrict your oppositional vocabulary to "___, I have reason to believe that you are wrong. Here is why:" Anything else just pisses off the subject of your message and they'll want to attack you right back. Likewise, if you are going to challenge a fact, be prepared to do so with sources. If two sources of equal stature contradict each other, report on the controversy in the article.
• I doubt anyone in this case is actually a troll or a vandal. I just think that there are differing opinions. People think differently, deal with it with honor and dignity. The world is watching.
• Don't forget to chillax.

MessedRocker (talk) 01:54, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a very good statement IMO. Your logic behind the content dispute I've experienced with Yorkshirian is backed up by a codified Wikipedia naming convention (i.e. Wikipedia:PLACE#Counties_of_Britain). It is Yorkshirian's unwillingness to comply with this convention (in the interests of our readers) that gives rise to opposition against him, and then his incivility and disruption as a way of "revenge" or "lashing-out" AFAICT. It is this (repeated) cycle of events that brought me to persue formal mediation, and (given that failed to stimulate change), now to seek a binding "contract" or injunction to improve/remove his poor conduct. --Jza84 |  Talk  19:58, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically, we haven't gone through formal mediation. WQA is as informal as it gets, and RFC is only slightly more formal. There is in fact a formal mediation step, but I bypassed that when coming to RFAR because it seemed pretty obvious that, given the lack of success in earlier steps, formal mediation was very unlikely to help. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 19:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Quite right yes. I meant "formal mediation" with lowercase, rather than "Formal Mediation" - the official process, but a relevant observation to point out to avoid confusion. :-) --Jza84 |  Talk  19:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment by Jeremy

I'm a party to the Robin Hood dispute, which was turning into an edit war when Yorkshirian was blocked. I got pretty impatient with Yorkshirian myself due to his reluctance (not total refusal) to engage in discussion rather than just reverting edits. However I'm uneasy about this episode being used to help justify his blocking. His position was in fact an arguable one, its just that he didn't argue it very well and wasn't tolerant of other views....and so forth. I got the impression he was very young. Knowing nothing about the dispute apart from this page, Yorkshirians own page, and the Robin Hood dispute, I would be against any long-term blockage or limitation of subjects he could make edits on. Jeremy (talk) 03:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Statement by Yorkshirian

Outline

Jza holds fringe views in regards to the former administrative entity Greater Manchester which was put into place in 1974, before its county council was abolished by Margret Thatcher in the Local Government Act 1985.[1] Due to this attachment to an entity which was in administrative practice for only 12 years, Jza insists on launching a Wikipedia wide fatwa on anything to do with Yorkshire (a cultural entity which has been around for over 1000 years), Lancashire and the culture of Great Britain prior to 1974. His attacks would not be accepted against regions of other countries such as Brittany or Catalonia for example, but he thinks he can target these.

Jza, along with MRSC constantly attack people who are interested in writing of British culture. I can present that the two often "tag team" users who write about Britain's culture, disuading them for doing so; examples are against myself, Howard Alexander,[2] Lancsalot[3], Logoistic,[4][5], for a start. The two also insist that anybody who does not agree with them is "a minority", "outsider" or a "fringe view" despite no evidence or stats to prove their inaccurate claim. In fact I can exemplify the exact opposite with the users Tangerines, Gladius Terrae Novae, Lewisdg2000, Owain, Arcturus, M A Mason, El Pollo Diablo, Bayerischermann, Modest Genius, Jmb, Heavens To Betsy, Sigurd Dragon Slayer, GSTQ, Marsbar man, White43, Bailrigg, Gal Lass, Ausbusinessnetwork, Snowy 1973, AleG2; who hold the oposite view to them, and this only includes the ones who have spoken up on their page; putting Jza and MRSC in a complete and utter minority.

Jza openly describes himself as a "social authoritarian" on his page.[6] In practise this is how he acts, forcing his minority stances onto a majority. If I point this out he calls it an "attack". Similar behaviour is his actions and clashes against the people who edit Irish articles such as; BigDunc, Windyjarhead[7] and Domer48[8]. BigDunc describes Jza's contribution to Wikipedia's Irish articles as "disturbing",[9] while MightyWarrior describes him as a "hot headed reactor".[10] Due to Jza's edits to sectarian articles; such as the Orange Institution[11] and supporting Rangers F.C.[12] this may go deeper. Below are examples of Jza and MRSC's harrassing me, violations of WP:OWN and "culturally cleansing" views they do not agree with from Yorkshire articles and others.

Cultural cleansing and censorship across Wikipedia

• Saddleworth White Rose Society - the people of Saddleworth consider themselves part of the cultural region of Yorkshire which has existed for over 1000 years. Jza and MRSC launched an ethnic attack on the people of Saddleworth by removing referenced information in regards to the social situations.[13] The reference was not made by just any random person but by the Member of Parliament for the area in the House of Commons, the most powerful man in the area, who stated;[14]

“ Saddleworth is in real Yorkshire--it is still in Yorkshire, as far as we in Saddleworth are concerned--but Oldham is not. The two areas--Oldham's cotton industry and the wool industry in Saddleworth--offer a good example of my point. ” — Phil Woolas, MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth, at the House of Commons in 27 January 1999

• CountyWatch - Jza inserted his self described social authoritarian hand onto this article also.[15] Under a section on "beliefs" a piece of information was provided with a quote from the chairman of the organisation describing its beliefs. Jza continued to blank and censor this information for no other reason than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. He only relented when Tangerines intervened.[16] The whole article reads as highly dissaproving due to Jza's touch and repression.[17]

• Association of British Counties - a tag team effort and strong propaganda by MRSC and Jza has rendered the article on the ABC as a through gritted teeth, bitter triade against it, rather than a genuine fair article.[18] MRSC has insisted on violating WP:NEO by adding a derogatory neologism "outsider pressure group" instead of the NPOV pressure group.[19] Numerous editors had removed the word "outsider" before the twosome added it back.[20] When it was shown that the neologism has a grand total of 80 hits on Google.com, non in relation to the article at hand.. and that in Google Book Search it returned only 6 hits,[21] again non in relation to the article at hand. The duo then proceeded to revert without using summaries.[22] Despite its violation of WP:NEO, WP:CITE, WP:CON.
• High Sheriff of Yorkshire - James is very bitter that Yorkshire has the Heritige of this position existing for over 1000 years. This makes him very, very angry. The couple removed referenced information in regards to some points.[23] Both a reference from neutral website Politics.co.uk and the fact that pressure groups such as the Association of British Counties and the Yorkshire Ridings Society wish to return the shrievalties to the traditional counties. They ripped this out of the article, with no rationale other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT.[24] MRSC then targeted the region by trying to get the template which holds the High Sheriffs and Lord Lieutants deleted, despite the fact that they are placed together within scholary, acedemic publication such as "The Lord Lieutenants and High Sheriffs of Yorkshire, 1066-2000".
• WikiProject UK geography - the duo violated WP:OWN and WP:CENSOR on this projects guideline to facilitate their personal, minority view bias.[25] In regards to regional identities in Great Britain, the two attacked the royal family where MRSC said he "didn't care" what Charles of Wales (our next king) had to say on the issue,comparing him to a "gazetteer". And they also removed a specific reference from authoritive figures of the British Government on the topic, the people who decide.[26]

“ I can confirm that the government still stands by the statement ..... that the local authority areas and boundaries introduced in April 1974 do not alter the traditional boundaries of counties. The 1974 arrangements are entirely administrative, and need not affect long-standing loyalties and affinities. ” — Michael Portillo, Minister of Local Government and Inner Cities. 11 July 1990.

• Lancashire - this article's progress has been incredibly stunted by Jza's social authoritarian stances and reverting of other users edits. MRSC has also prooved significant in its stunted quality.[27] Jza stops users adding anything regarding the area prior to 1974, robbing it of its long and fruitful history including removal of any mention of Manchester United.[28][29] This is because it does not fall in line with his strange, extreme fringe desire for some sort of "Republic of Manchester"; he wishes to co-opt the history of Lancashire and "give" it to an entity which existed in law only from 1974 until 1986, with no thoughts or concerns for the cultural history of Lancashire which has existed for around 1000 years. Victims include Kezzer37,[30], El Pollo Diablo[31] and Lancsalot. On the talkpage he attacks yet another British culture group; Friends of Real Lancashire, so many alleged "minority" groups it seems.

Harrassment, stalking and cyberbullying by MRSC and Jza

I could cite numerous, numerous examples of this, because on Wikipedia, the editing lives of Jza and MRSC largely revolve around following me to articles. I'll just use yesterday and today as an example of the extranced MRSC following me to articles and stalking my contributions dragging their disagreement on an other article into other articles. His "fondness" for me is quite unsettling, showing WP:STALK and WP:TROLL violations.[32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43] They harass me very commonly in this manner.

Jza also openly personally attacks me with full knowledge of his act on this very page, and is unapologetic in his violation of WP:NPA; "I say it on record and will take a slap on the wrist for it if needbe".[44] Notice that in Jza's statement not a single diff is provided? This is because he cannot prove me making any "personal attacks". WP:SPADE decalred to call a spade a spade; when Jza invades an article ripping out sources, with no use of the edit summary, because it does not support his fantasy "Republic of Manchester", then it is fair to call the edit "vandalism". I feel Jza also used underhand tactics which violated both policy (WP:CANVAS) and the spirit of Wikipedia, by attempting to get a friend of his to ban me. The admin inquestion, DDStretch has only become an admin recently and was apparently unaware of WP:Blocking policy; and so I was unblocked.

Everytime Jza crys "personal attack" against me, is in such a circumstance where he has cyberstalked me to an article, attempted to antagonise me in ways which the diffs above show. Also it is not like I have used abusive language or anything which could really be considered "abusive", the two insist that my tone is "advisary"; they refuse to accept that people from different areas have naturally different ways of expressing words. As I said in the wikiquitte check, I have never once intended to personally attack anybody on Wikipedia.

Resolution

As I have presented the issue of Jza's cultural repression edits are not just specific to Yorkshire and Lancashire, he has been involved in incredibly controversial tussles with Irish editors in accusations of "cultural cleansing" too. This is apparently a worldview by Jza, complete disregard of peoples culture and violations of WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY. I'm not sure such lack of respect for different groups of people can be "cured" with anything but an indef ban on him. However, as he plays the "do not wrong" game when speaking here (with no diffs at all) then that is unlikely to happen. So I propose;

1. Jza and MRSC banned (6 months/1 year?) from editing articles all articles to do with Counties of England, especially touting their bias minority view attacks on the culture of Yorkshire and Lancashire. An addition of Ireland and sectarian issues for Jza.
2. A commitment to stop turning cultural groups articles such as the Association of British Counties and CountyWatch into "attack" pages to levy their own personal bias. These pages should also follow the policies on WP:NEO, WP:CITE, WP:NPOV. This means stopping inserting neologisms which fail WP:NEO.
3. A commitment to stop making untrue and unsourced statement that people who support British culture are "in the minority" or a "fringe". As Tangerines, Gladius Terrae Novae, Lewisdg2000, Owain, Arcturus, M A Mason, El Pollo Diablo, Bayerischermann, Modest Genius, Jmb, Heavens To Betsy, Sigurd Dragon Slayer, GSTQ, Marsbar man, White43, Bailrigg, Gal Lass, Ausbusinessnetwork, Snowy 1973, AleG2 puts those two in the clear minority and fringe. The two (Jza especially) attempt to claim that they are in the majority in their view, with no proof, in the hopes that it will "trick" people not familiar with Great Britain, especially as Wikipedia is such an international community of editors.
4. A commitment to stop violating WP:VANDAL by their constant removal of referenced material just because they disagree with it. We work by WP:CITE, we don't indulge in WP:IDONTLIKEIT.
5. A commitment to stop stalking and harassing me in an obsessed manner (as presented above with the diffs) when all I am doing is improving articles on my home land. That is what I come here to do, improve articles on things I'm interested, including my peoples culture. Is that too much to ask to do in peace without being harassed? - Yorkshirian (talk) 20:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Clerk note: Statement trimmed on the case page because it did not meet the 500-word limit. Original statement was moved to the talk page, as seen above. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 18:22, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Statements by opening clerks

Arb clerk User:Rlevse and clerk helper User:Nishkid64 opened this case for User:Daniel who was not available at time of opening. Daniel is the official case clerk. — Rlevse • Talk • 18:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Jayvdb will now be the clerk for this case. User:Nishkid64 will be assisting. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)