Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Rikki Lee Travolta

The question of Rikki Lee Travolta's identity brings up an interesting issue with respect to sources. Newspapers are generally considered reliable sources, but what about gossip columns printed in a newspaper? Looking carefully at the Lexis/Nexis results for Rikki Lee Travolta, it is clear he is an actor and director living in Chicago performing broadway-type roles. However, the information that he is a relative of John Travolta is only found in those newspaper gossip columns. The most frequent source is Stella's column [1] in the Chicago Sun Times (that link is not to the Sun-Times but I have verified that the column did originally appear there). "Actor/singer Rikki Lee Travolta and wife, Sonia, are celebrating the Valentine's Day birth of son." Now, who would pass that on to the newspaper except Travolta himself? If he named himself as John Travolta's nephew, would the gossip columnist check? The case of Misha Sedgwick, who convinced even the New York Times that she was the niece of Andy Warhol's IT girl Edie Sedgwick, is perhaps instructive.

Both the TV Guide link cited earlier and the Toronto Star reported that Travolta was in the running to be the next James Bond; again, who would know but Travolta himself? There is a very interesting article in the Chicago Sun-Times from December 13, 1999. Search their archives for "Rikki Lee Travolta" and you'll see it, although it's $2.95 to retrieve the whole article. (My link to Lexis/Nexis is down right now or I could get it for free.) The teaser text offered by the Sun-Times is as follows:

Date: December 13, 1999

Publication: Chicago Sun-Times

Page: 39

Word Count: 375

Excerpt:

In the wake of the generally tepid response to "The World Is Not Enough," rumors are again flying that Pierce Brosnan may not make that fourth James Bond film. Already an online poll is seeking fan interest in possible Brosnan replacements. As of Friday, 100,000 people had voted_giving an overwhelming majority (74 percent) to the relatively unknown, Shakespearean-trained Australian actor Rikki Lee Travolta (no relation to John), who is set to star in the syndicated.. (emphasis added)

I'll leave you to ponder for a moment how likely it is that an unknown actor would gain a majority in an online poll to become James Bond in 1999 and also part of a "grassroots campaign" to be named Bond in 2005.

Finally there is the strange case of the "anonymous e-mail" circulating in Hollywood in 2002 that Spielberg and Lucas had created the first computer-generated actor, named Rikki Lee Travolta, that would soon replace living humans. Fortunately, the real Rikki Lee Travolta appears at a press conference just a few days after the NY Post's item to dispell the rumors.

I am drawn to conclude that Rikki Lee Travolta orchestrated an astrotrufing campaign in 1999 and again in 2005 to associate his name with the Bond franchise; that the 2002 anonymous e-mail was likely started by him as well to create an opportunity for him to make a widely covered press appearance; that he places items once a year or so with the Sun-Times gossip columnist to keep his name alive in the news; and that he is no more related to John Travolta than I am. (The 1999 news story cancels out the 2002 and 2005 gossip columns, leaving no reliable source for this claim.) He is, at best, an actor and director of small theater projects, and the self-publisher of a book with very low Amazon rankings, and as such, does not meet wikipedia's guidelines for WP:BIO.

Comment As a daily subscriber to the Chicago Sun-Times, I would like to point out that Stella's column is primarily a local interest column. I know a number of people who have had a marriage, anniversary, birth or death reported in that column (either since she's had it or under its previous columnist, Irv Kupcinet), because a friend of a friend forwarded the information to her. Is she an authority on Travolta's background or birth? No. Fan1967 21:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More Evidence from main page[edit]

A user posted this link to the Rikki Lee Travolta page as a source. This page originates at PRWeb which describes itself as "a free online press release distribution service" and encourages users to "Write compelling stories. Your news release should capture the attention and imagination of the editors, journalists and writers that use this service as a resource for their work.". The page mentions a film that Rikki Lee Travolta was in called Camelot: Excalibur directed by Donna DeCarl and that the DVD will be released in 2004 by Abracadabra Productions. This is Donna DeCarl's IMDb entry here. Abracadabra productions are a Wedding photography company here. There is no film that exists called Camelot: Excalibur. Arniep 15:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have spent already too much time to look on the net for sources about this Rikki and as it seems most information is first published in a press release on prweb.com and than copied in various modifications over and over it's extremly frustrating to find hard reliable evidence. I also looked for a movie 'Camelot: Excalibur' which is mentioned over and over in connection of Rikki's 'nomination' for the Bond film and couldn't find anything. But here (well again a press release) [2] [3] it sounds very much that this wasn't a movie after all but a stage play (musical) 2000/2001 which I assume was planned to be put on DVD in 2004 but never materialised. The second reference also gives some information about his grandfather a teacher. Gu 17:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK maybe it was a musical but reading the rest it is hard to take it seriously. It keeps saying he was offered this and that part, is in training for such and such that never materialises. On different PRs he is described variously as "famous actor Rikki Lee Travolta", "country recording artist Rikki Lee Travolta", "model Rikki Lee Travolta", and last but not least "An internationally published journalist catering to the specialized markets of Medicine & Nutrition, Sports & Fitness, Beauty & Cosmetics, and Home Furnishings, he is also a Top Ten Amazon.com recommended author.". Arniep 17:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"a Top Ten Amazon.com recommended author" It had been (and may still be) the case that visitors to Amazon could add recommendations to the listings for books (along the lines of, if you like this, you might also like...). I wonder if this claim is based on something like that or is actually something more substantial. Шизомби 13:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Bostic[edit]

I agree that people nominating articles for deletion should notify the main editors of the article. Regarding your use of the word "Fact," I ask you to read the policy on reliable sources. WP:RS. I'll tackle just a few.

He was not "Ranked in top 5 in world as star of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat by Broadway World News," he was reported by Broadway News as a top 5 draw based on a press release from gueststarcasting.com, a booking agency. If this is true, I should be able to find a review of Joseph that mentions Travolta's name in some US newspaper somewhere. Using Lexis/Nexis, which is a database of newspaper articles going back 10 years or more (which is not susceptible to manipulation a la google bombing) I can find nothing. He was in a local production of Joseph in Chicago. I can find no evidence he was in a national touring company. Can you provide the name of one city and a general idea of a date for me to verify?
The news that Rikki has landed the role of Thor was reported on many web sites but it all originates with ComicBoards.com, not a reliable source. If he actually appears in the movie, I will owe you an apology. Until then, wikipedia is not a crystal ball.
His IMDB entry is written by the Drake Miezel, his manager according to Travoltanet. Not a reliable source. Where is Camelot: Excalibur? Was is a play, a musical, a TV pilot, a made-for-Sci-Fi channel movie, or what? It's listed in his bio but no one seems to be able to find it. Can you show me where it had appeared or is for sale?
Anyone can write an Amazon review. Can you name one newspaper or magazine that has reviewed My Fractured Life? I can't find any.
Supposedly My Fractured Life was optioned by Port Magee Pictures in 2003, and Travolta was casting it in 2004. How's it coming? Again, nothing in Lexis/Nexis, meaning nothing has been reported in a newspaper, magazine or studio press release. Again, wikipedia is not a crystal ball.
One of the sources in the article is http://www.onlypunjab.com, which allows anyone to post a press release for free. Another source is hoopsworld.com. These are not reliable sources per policy.
On the talk page you name CBS News and E!. Give a specific link, or even just a date.

The bottom line is that even if Mr. Travolta is the son of the estranged half-brother of John Travolta, that alone does not entitle him to a wikipedia article, and the only parts of his career that can be verified are that he is a minor actor living in Chicago. Thatcher131 06:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Another source frequently cited all over the web is a glowing quote about the book from the Chicago News Sun. Nowhere is there an original of the supposed review. The News Sun has very little web presence. The News Sun is the #4 paper in a two-paper town (after the Tribune, Sun-Times and Herald), basically a chain of suburban community newspapers using wire-service reports and some pieces from the Sun-Times, supplemented by local stringers. I get it regularly in my town, especially when there is a local issue (bond issue or local referendum) not covered by the Chicago area dailies. I've never noticed a book review there, though I might have missed it. I have to wonder why they would be reviewing an unknown book from a vanity publisher. Fan1967 16:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe if Bostic promised you an autographed copy of the book you could run down the to the library and page through the back issues. Thatcher131 18:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tabulation (as of 06:00 Monday April 10)[edit]

As a favor to the closing admin and other interested parties, I took the liberty of tabulating the discussion so far. What is interesting about this AfD is that in addition to the usual new editors, there is a group of editors whose accounts date back to November, 2005, making them technically established, but who have very few edits that are almost entirely centered around adding Travolta's name to other articles.

Comments to Keep

Established editors

KingJamesCav (talk · contribs) (relatively new editor but was making good faith edits to the article before it was listed)

New editors (first edit was after the AfD was listed)

Lonesomedovechocolate (talk · contribs) (only signed up to vote on afds)

Happy-go-go (talk · contribs)

Rikki's fans

Paramountpr (talk · contribs)

Sonybmg (talk · contribs)

Brotherstork (talk · contribs)

Bostic 5.0 (talk · contribs)

65.209.181.195 (talk · contribs)

Icemountain2 (talk · contribs)

Hardwoodhaywood (talk · contribs)

Cokenotpepsi (talk · contribs)

Comments to Delete

Established editors

Ian ≡ talk

New editors (first edit was after the AfD was listed)

LuckyJoeMagic (talk · contribs)

Unknown

EraserX (talk · contribs) Account opened before the AfD listing but only edits Travolta articles, mostly by removing links that any of them are related.

70.60.149.226

Feel free to keep up to date but change the date and time in the header and add your signature below mine so we know who has been editing it.

List generated Thatcher131 02:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Updated Thatcher131 06:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Updated?

Further proof[edit]

Should further proof ever be needed, I have an email on OTRS from Margaret Travolta, discussing who indeed is a Travolta. -- Zanimum 21:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]