Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/All current discussions
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Speedy renaming and merging[edit]
If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.
If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.
Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list:
* [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~
(The four ~ will sign and datestamp the entry automatically.)
If the current name should be redirected rather than deleted, use:
* REDIRECT [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~
To note that human action is required, e.g. updating a template that populates the category, use:
* NO BOTS [[:Category:old name]] to [[:Category:new name]] – Reason ~~~~
Remember to tag the category page with: {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}
A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 11:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC). Currently, there are 303 open requests (. )
Administrators and page movers: Do not use the "Move" tab to move categories listed here!Categories are processed following the 48-hour waiting period and are moved by a bot. |
Current requests[edit]
Please add new requests at the top of the list, preferably with a link to the parent category (in case of C2C) or relevant article (in case of C2D).
- Category:People from Port Elizabeth to Category:People from Gqeberha – C2C: Per parent cat of Category:Gqeberha and main article Gqeberha moved at RM. AusLondonder (talk) 11:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Military units and formations in Port Elizabeth to Category:Military units and formations in Gqeberha – C2C: Per parent cat of Category:Gqeberha and main article Gqeberha moved at RM. AusLondonder (talk) 11:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:History of Port Elizabeth to Category:History of Gqeberha – C2C: Per parent cat of Category:Gqeberha and main article Gqeberha moved at RM. AusLondonder (talk) 11:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Buildings and structures in Port Elizabeth to Category:Buildings and structures in Gqeberha – C2C: Per parent cat of Category:Gqeberha and main article Gqeberha moved at RM. AusLondonder (talk) 11:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Surface features of Uranian moons to Category:Surface features of Uranus' moons – C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Geological features on the Moon to Category:Surface features of the Moon – C2C. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:11, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Dreams F.C. (Ghana) to Category:Dreams F.C. – C2D with Dreams F.C. Intrisit (talk) 08:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Dreams F.C. (Ghana) managers to Category:Dreams F.C. managers – C2D with Dreams F.C. Intrisit (talk) 08:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Dreams F.C. (Ghana) players to Category:Dreams F.C. players – C2D with Dreams F.C. Intrisit (talk) 08:39, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Nilo–Saharan languages multilingual support templates to Category:Nilo–Saharan multilingual support templates – C2C: parent is Category:Wikipedia multilingual support templates, while siblings include Category:Indo-European multilingual support templates and Category:Niger–Congo multilingual support templates PK2 (talk) 08:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:North African-Jewish diaspora to Category:Maghrebi-Jews diaspora – C2D: North African Jews is a redirect to Maghrebi Jews. Aldij (talk) 18:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Albanian atheist writers to Category:Albanian writers on atheism – C2C: parent is Writers on atheism and this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_March_19#Category:Writers_on_Atheism Mason (talk) 13:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Milyang Park clan to Category:Miryang Park clan – C2D. Article renamed. ⁂CountHacker (talk) 11:29, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Vijayanand to Category:Films scored by Vijay Anand (composer) – C2D: He is Vijay Anand (composer). Kailash29792 (talk) 10:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Early Modern Russian literature to Category:Early modern Russian literature – C2B: Parent Category:Early modern literature. NLeeuw (talk) 06:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- REDIRECT Category:FC Saxan players to Category:FC Saksan players – C2D* Pppery * it has begun... 03:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- REDIRECT Category:FC Saxan managers to Category:FC Saksan managers – C2D* Pppery * it has begun... 03:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:FC Saxan to Category:FC Saksan – C2D* Pppery * it has begun... 03:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:United States politicians killed during the Civil War to Category:Politicians killed in the American Civil War - this new name is shorter and less ambiguous, as the category lists both Union and Confederate politicians who died in the ACW. AHI-3000 (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Robert Houston to Category:Films directed by Robert Houston (actor) – C2D: Robert Houston (actor). 1857a (talk) 03:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Hou Yong to Category:Films directed by Hou Yong (cinematographer) – C2D: Hou Yong (cinematographer). 1857a (talk) 03:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:People of Hungarian German descent to Category:People of Hungarian-German descent – C2C: parent is Hungarian-German people and siblings are People of Hungarian-Romanian descent , People of Hungarian-Romani descent, People of Hungarian-Jewish descent Mason (talk) 02:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by H. Manning Haynes to Category:Films directed by Manning Haynes – C2D: Manning Haynes. 1857a (talk) 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Alan Hale to Category:Films directed by Alan Hale Sr. – C2D: Alan Hale Sr. 1857a (talk) 02:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by John Gilbert to Category:Films directed by John Gilbert (actor) – C2D: John Gilbert (actor). 1857a (talk) 02:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by David Field to Category:Films directed by David Field (actor) – C2D: David Field (actor). 1857a (talk) 02:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Larry Ferguson to Category:Films directed by Larry Ferguson (screenwriter) – C2D: Larry Ferguson (screenwriter). 1857a (talk) 02:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by David M. Evans to Category:Films directed by David Mickey Evans – C2D: David Mickey Evans. 1857a (talk) 02:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Chris Evans to Category:Films directed by Chris Evans (actor) – C2D: Chris Evans (actor). 1857a (talk) 02:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Arthur Davis to Category:Films directed by Arthur Davis (animator) – C2D: Arthur Davis (animator). 1857a (talk) 02:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:LGBT people by ethnic group to Category:LGBT people by ethnicity – C2C: People by ethnicity is parent Mason (talk) 02:18, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Assassinated politicians of the Russian Empire to Category:Assassinated politicians from the Russian Empire – C2C: Politicians from the Russian Empire is parent Mason (talk) 01:54, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:RuPaul's Drag Race Down Under contestants to Category:Drag Race Down Under contestants – C2C. Tagged but not listed * Pppery * it has begun... 00:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Neighborhoods in Dharwad to Category:Neighbourhoods in Dharwad – C2C. Tagged on March 24, not listed. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:DR Motor Company to Category:Car manufacturers of Italy – C2F (an alt rename proposal was tagged by an IP in March but not listed) * Pppery * it has begun... 00:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Lal to Category:Films directed by Lal (actor) – C2D: Lal (actor). 1857a (talk) 00:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Kim Dong-won (1962) to Category:Films directed by Kim Dong-won (director, born 1962) – C2D: Kim Dong-won (director, born 1962). 1857a (talk) 00:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Kim Dong-won to Category:Films directed by Kim Dong-won (filmmaker, born 1955) – C2D: Kim Dong-won (filmmaker, born 1955). 1857a (talk) 00:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Dipendra K Khanal to Category:Films directed by Dipendra K. Khanal – C2D: Dipendra K. Khanal. 1857a (talk) 00:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Ahmed Khan to Category:Films directed by Ahmed Khan (choreographer) – C2D: Ahmed Khan (choreographer). 1857a (talk) 00:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Khavn to Category:Films directed by Khavn De La Cruz – C2D: Khavn De La Cruz. 1857a (talk) 00:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ottoman Kurdish politicians to Category:Kurdish politicians from the Ottoman Empire – C2C: parents are Kurdish people from the Ottoman Empire (−) (±)Politicians from the Ottoman Empire Mason (talk) 00:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Daniel Davies to Category:Films scored by Daniel Davies (musician) – C2D: Daniel Davies (musician). 1857a (talk) 23:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Bohemia to Category:Films scored by Bohemia (rapper) – C2D: Bohemia (rapper). 1857a (talk) 23:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Jewish Ottoman politicians to Category:Jewish politicians from the Ottoman Empire – C2C: parents (Jews from the Ottoman Empire (−) (±)Politicians from the Ottoman Empire) both use from the ottoman empire Mason (talk) 23:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Xulfi to Category:Films scored by Zulfiqar Jabbar Khan – C2D: Zulfiqar Jabbar Khan. 1857a (talk) 23:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Timothy Williams to Category:Films scored by Timothy Williams (composer) – C2D: Timothy Williams (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Patrick Williams to Category:Films scored by Patrick Williams (composer) – C2D: Patrick Williams (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by George Wilkins to Category:Films scored by George Wilkins (composer) – C2D: George Wilkins (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:44, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Charles Williams to Category:Films scored by Charles Williams (composer) – C2D: Charles Williams (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Vinod to Category:Films scored by Vinod (composer) – C2D: Vinod (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Peter Thomas to Category:Films scored by Peter Thomas (composer) – C2D: Peter Thomas (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Mark Thomas to Category:Films scored by Mark Thomas (composer) – C2D: Mark Thomas (composer). 1857a (talk) 23:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films scored by Shaan to Category:Films scored by Shaan (singer) – C2D: Shaan (singer). 1857a (talk) 23:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Early Modern history of Ukraine to Category:Early modern history of Ukraine – C2B: Parent Category:Early modern period by country. NLeeuw (talk) 21:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Works about Balkans to Category:Works about the Balkans – C2A. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Television series by Entertainment Studios to Category:Television series by Allen Media Group – C2D with Allen Media Group, renamed from Entertainment Studios. Intrisit (talk) 20:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Entertainment Studios films to Category:Allen Media Group films – C2D with Allen Media Group, renamed from Entertainment Studios. Intrisit (talk) 20:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Public Housing in New Zealand to Category:Public housing in New Zealand – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:British monarchy to Category:Monarchy of the United Kingdom – C2D: Monarchy of the United Kingdom. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Thai monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Thailand – C2D: Monarchy of Thailand. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Swedish monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Sweden – C2D: Monarchy of Sweden. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Spanish monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Spain – C2D: Monarchy of Spain. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Monarchy in New Zealand to Category:Monarchy of New Zealand – C2D: Monarchy of New Zealand. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Dutch monarchy to Category:Monarchy of the Netherlands – C2D: Monarchy of the Netherlands. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Malaysian monarchy to Category:Monarchies of Malaysia – C2D: Monarchies of Malaysia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Monarchy in Jamaica to Category:Monarchy of Jamaica – C2D: Monarchy of Jamaica. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Monarchy in Fiji to Category:Monarchy of Fiji – C2D: Monarchy of Fiji. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Cambodian monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Cambodia – C2D: Monarchy of Cambodia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Belgian monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Belgium – C2D: Monarchy of Belgium. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Monarchy in Australia to Category:Monarchy of Australia – C2D: Monarchy of Australia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Danish monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Denmark – C2D: Monarchy of Denmark. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Norwegian monarchy to Category:Monarchy of Norway – C2D: Monarchy of Norway. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in the United Kingdom to Category:Theatre of the United Kingdom – C2D: Theatre of the United Kingdom. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in the Czech Republic to Category:Theatre of the Czech Republic – C2D: Theatre of the Czech Republic. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Zambia to Category:Theatre of Zambia – C2D: Theatre of Zambia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Turkey to Category:Theatre of Turkey – C2D: Theatre of Turkey. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Sri Lanka to Category:Theatre of Sri Lanka – C2D: Theatre of Sri Lanka. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Poland to Category:Theatre of Poland – C2D: Theatre of Poland. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Pakistan to Category:Theatre of Pakistan – C2D: Theatre of Pakistan. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Lebanon to Category:Theatre of Lebanon – C2D: Theatre of Lebanon. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Kosovo to Category:Theatre of Kosovo – C2D: Theatre of Kosovo. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Japan to Category:Theatre of Japan – C2D: Theatre of Japan. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Italy to Category:Theatre of Italy – C2D: Theatre of Italy. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Indonesia to Category:Theatre of Indonesia – C2D: Theatre of Indonesia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in India to Category:Theatre of India – C2D: Theatre of India. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in France to Category:Theatre of France – C2D: Theatre of France. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Estonia to Category:Theatre of Estonia – C2D: Theatre of Estonia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Denmark to Category:Theatre of Denmark – C2D: Theatre of Denmark. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in China to Category:Theatre of China – C2D: Theatre of China. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Professional wrestling in Newark, New Jersey to Category:Professional wrestling shows in Newark, New Jersey – C2C: To match contents of category. User:Namiba 14:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Canada to Category:Theatre of Canada – C2D: Theatre of Canada. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Cameroon to Category:Theatre of Cameroon – C2D: Theatre of Cameroon. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Jersey to Category:Theatre of Jersey – C2D: Theatre of Jersey. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Burkina Faso to Category:Theatre of Burkina Faso – C2D: Theatre of Burkina Faso. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Professional wrestling in Buffalo, New York to Category:Professional wrestling shows in Buffalo, New York – C2C: To match contents of category. User:Namiba 14:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Professional wrestling in Richmond, Virginia to Category:Professional wrestling shows in Richmond, Virginia – C2C: All articles in category are about shows. User:Namiba 14:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Theatre in Australia to Category:Theatre of Australia – C2D: Theatre of Australia. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:World Rugby Under 20 Championship to Category:World Rugby U20 Championship – C2D per World Rugby U20 Championship. Article was moved in July 2023. Bcp67 (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Paraguay to Category:Education ministers of Paraguay – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Morocco to Category:Education ministers of Morocco – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Environment Ministers of the Maldives to Category:Environment ministers of the Maldives – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Fisheries Ministers of the Faroe Islands to Category:Fisheries ministers of the Faroe Islands – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Provincial Ministers of Zambia to Category:Provincial ministers of Zambia – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Transportation Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Transportation ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Somaliland to Category:Education ministers of Somaliland – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Education ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Pakistan to Category:Education ministers of Pakistan – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Liberia to Category:Education ministers of Liberia – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Jamaica to Category:Education ministers of Jamaica – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Egypt to Category:Education ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of Brazil to Category:Education ministers of Brazil – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education and Culture Ministers of Uruguay to Category:Education and culture ministers of Uruguay – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Irrigation Ministers of Egypt to Category:Irrigation ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:54, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Communications Ministers of Egypt to Category:Communications ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Administrative Development Ministers of Egypt to Category:Administrative development ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Civil Aviation Ministers of Somaliland to Category:Civil aviation ministers of Somaliland – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Labour Ministers of Botswana to Category:Labour ministers of Botswana – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Justice Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Justice ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Agriculture Ministers of India to Category:Agriculture ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Agriculture Ministers of Egypt to Category:Agriculture ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Civil Service Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Civil service ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Interior ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Economic Affairs Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Economic affairs ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Endowments Ministers of Egypt to Category:Endowments ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Municipal Affairs Ministers of Egypt to Category:Municipal affairs ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Somaliland to Category:Interior ministers of Somaliland – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Tourism Ministers of Andorra to Category:Tourism ministers of Andorra – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Transport Ministers of Ivory Coast to Category:Transport ministers of Ivory Coast – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Paraguay to Category:Interior ministers of Paraguay – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Information Ministers of Pakistan to Category:Information ministers of Pakistan – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Württemberg to Category:Interior ministers of Württemberg – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Iran to Category:Interior ministers of Iran – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Egypt to Category:Interior ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Interior Ministers of Azerbaijan to Category:Interior ministers of Azerbaijan – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Health Ministers of Bahrain to Category:Health ministers of Bahrain – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Health Ministers of Palestine to Category:Health ministers of Palestine – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Health Ministers of Zimbabwe to Category:Health ministers of Zimbabwe – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Tonga to Category:Defence ministers of Tonga – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defense Ministers of the Republic of China to Category:Defense ministers of the Republic of China – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Egypt to Category:Defence ministers of Egypt – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Power of India to Category:Ministers of power of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Culture Ministers of India to Category:Culture ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Coal Ministers of India to Category:Coal ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Education Ministers of India to Category:Education ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Steel Ministers of India to Category:Steel ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Railway Ministers of India to Category:Railway ministers of India – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Union Ministers from United Andhra Pradesh to Category:Union ministers from United Andhra Pradesh – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Agriculture Ministers of Mali to Category:Agriculture ministers of Mali – C2A. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Beach volleyball at the Summer Universiade to Category:Beach volleyball at the Summer World University Games – C2D: Beach volleyball at the Summer World University Games. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note that this the target was previously listed as the current name, which I've fixed at the category tag and in this nomination. Moving this back up to the top to reset the timer so it has a full 48 hours. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films about Phil Ochs to Category:Documentary films about Phil Ochs – C2C: Per the rest of Category:Documentary films about singers. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 12:45, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Württemberg to Category:Finance ministers of Württemberg – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of the Solomon Islands to Category:Finance ministers of the Solomon Islands – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Norway to Category:Finance ministers of Norway – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Niue to Category:Finance ministers of Niue – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Japan to Category:Finance ministers of Japan – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Finland to Category:Finance ministers of Finland – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:24, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Ecuador to Category:Finance ministers of Ecuador – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Cyprus to Category:Finance ministers of Cyprus – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:21, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Chile to Category:Finance ministers of Chile – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:20, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Burkina Faso to Category:Finance ministers of Burkina Faso – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:19, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers for finance of Abkhazia to Category:Finance ministers of Abkhazia – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of finance of Afghanistan to Category:Finance ministers of Afghanistan – C2C: Per Category:Finance ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:17, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Labour Ministers of Nauru to Category:Labour ministers of Nauru – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Labour of Israel to Category:Labour ministers of Israel – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:09, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Italian Ministers of Labour to Category:Labour ministers of Italy – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Labor ministers (Germany) to Category:Labor ministers of Germany – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Taiwanese Ministers of Labor to Category:Labor ministers of Taiwan – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Labour of Finland to Category:Labour ministers of Finland – C2C: Per Category:Labor ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 17:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Slovakia to Category:Defence ministers of Slovakia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers for Defence of Luxembourg to Category:Defence ministers of Luxembourg – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Lithuania to Category:Defence ministers of Lithuania – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defense of Israel to Category:Defense ministers of Israel – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Bissau-Guinean Ministers of Defense to Category:Defence ministers of Guinea-Bissau – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Estonia to Category:Defence ministers of Estonia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Czechoslovakia to Category:Defence ministers of Czechoslovakia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Pakistan to Category:Defence ministers of Pakistan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Romanian Ministers of Defence to Category:Defence ministers of Romania – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Papua New Guinea to Category:Defence ministers of Papua New Guinea – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Somalia to Category:Defence ministers of Somalia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of São Tomé and Príncipe to Category:Defence ministers of São Tomé and Príncipe – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Tajikistan to Category:Defence ministers of Tajikistan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Turkmenistan to Category:Defence ministers of Turkmenistan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Venezuelan Ministers of Defense to Category:Defense ministers of Venezuela – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Uzbekistan to Category:Defence ministers of Uzbekistan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Vietnam to Category:Defence ministers of Vietnam – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of Zambia to Category:Defence ministers of Zambia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:New Zealand defence ministers to Category:Defence ministers of New Zealand – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Danish Defence Ministers to Category:Defence ministers of Denmark – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Mongolia to Category:Defence ministers of Mongolia – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defense Ministers of Laos to Category:Defense ministers of Laos – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:58, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Kyrgyzstan to Category:Defence ministers of Kyrgyzstan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defence of Kazakhstan to Category:Defence ministers of Kazakhstan – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Defence Ministers of India to Category:Defence ministers of India – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Belgian Ministers of Defence to Category:Defence ministers of Belgium – C2C: Per Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:41, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Ministers of Defense of Azerbaijan to Category:Defence ministers of Azerbaijan – C2C: Per Category:Ministry of Defence (Azerbaijan) and Category:Defense ministers by country AusLondonder (talk) 15:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose all word order changes for the political office, or changes from "Ministers for [dept]" to "Ministers of [dept]", unless demonstrated to be local usage. Especially opposing "Ministers of Finance" to "Finance ministers" – I recently renamed these according to local usage; where there is no article for the position in the country, I followed the majority usage in the biography articles. They do not have to follow the wording "Finance ministers" from the parent Category:Finance ministers by country. Note: I am not opposing decapitalisation, nor moving to "of [Country]", which can go ahead speedily. – Fayenatic London 20:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london: Wasn't aware, sorry for the extra work these noms have made. Thought I was helping out but you're two steps ahead of me! Hey man im josh (talk) 20:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how it's a local usage issue? Why should the category tree of Category:Finance ministers by country not be consistent? AusLondonder (talk) 05:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose all word order changes for the political office, or changes from "Ministers for [dept]" to "Ministers of [dept]", unless demonstrated to be local usage. Especially opposing "Ministers of Finance" to "Finance ministers" – I recently renamed these according to local usage; where there is no article for the position in the country, I followed the majority usage in the biography articles. They do not have to follow the wording "Finance ministers" from the parent Category:Finance ministers by country. Note: I am not opposing decapitalisation, nor moving to "of [Country]", which can go ahead speedily. – Fayenatic London 20:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Films directed by Abdel Kechiche to Category:Films directed by Abdellatif Kechiche – C2D: Abdellatif Kechiche. Οἶδα (talk) 20:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Opposed requests[edit]
- Category:Communist Party secretaries of Rehe Province to Category:CCP committee secretaries of Rehe Province – C2A: Consistent with similar sub-categories in this category Amigao (talk) 02:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Secretaries of the Communist Party Shanghai Committee to Category:CCP committee secretaries of Shanghai – C2A: Consistent with similar sub-categories in this category Amigao (talk) 02:04, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Communist Party Committee Secretaries of Taiyuan to Category:CCP committee secretaries of Taiyuan – C2A: Consistent with similar sub-categories in this category Amigao (talk) 02:03, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Communist Party secretaries of Xi'an to Category:CCP committee secretaries of Xi'an – C2A: consistent naming with sub-categories in this category Amigao (talk) 02:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Tatar music to Category:Music of Tatarstan – C2D: Music of Tatarstan. NLeeuw (talk) 05:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- This one contains a lot of entries unrelated to Tatarstan. Ymblanter (talk) 20:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps we should split it in two?
- Category:Music of Tatarstan > Music by country tree
- Category:Tatar music > Music by ethnicity tree
- We don't need to move to full in order to do that; I could withdraw this nom and create the first one myself out of the second. NLeeuw (talk) 22:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps we should split it in two?
- This one contains a lot of entries unrelated to Tatarstan. Ymblanter (talk) 20:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American female winemakers to Category:American women winemakers – Reason C2C: per siblings in Category:American women by occupation. TSventon (talk) 20:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose speedy. Female versus women is not clear cut, especially not under C2C. Mason (talk) 00:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose There is no consensus on "women" versus "female" as an adjective, and existing cats should generally not be renamed. NLeeuw (talk) 06:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- NLeeuw, for future reference, do you have a source for what you said? TSventon (talk) 22:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @TSventon I do. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 27#Women/Men or Female/Male as an adjective. See User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Emptying categories out of process#Admin manually moving categories without discussion for an April 2023 incident confirming the fact that there is no consensus on female versus women. In the archives you'll find countless other precedents which confirmed the fact that we do not agree on which adjective is better, and to change it one way or another. NLeeuw (talk) 05:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose speedy. Female versus women is not clear cut, especially not under C2C. Mason (talk) 00:30, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
On hold pending other discussion[edit]
- None currently
Moved to full discussion[edit]
- Category:Sikh military to Category:Military of the Sikh Empire – C2C: Parents Category:Sikh Empire and Category:Military by former country. Siblings in Category:Military by former country. NLeeuw (talk) 17:29, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Nederlandse Leeuw: this requires more discussion because there is lots of content in the category that pre-dates the Sikh Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle You're probably right. Moved to full: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 19#Category:Sikh military. NLeeuw (talk) 14:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Nederlandse Leeuw: this requires more discussion because there is lots of content in the category that pre-dates the Sikh Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Neo-Latin writers to Category:Writers in Neo-Latin – C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 01:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is not very natural language. It is inconsistent with the same level categories "Classical Latin-language writers", "Latin-language writers of late antiquity", "Medieval Latin-language writers", "Old Latin-language writers", and "Renaissance Latin-language writers".
- This is because "Neo-Latin" etc are actually styles, that are associated with a period. Jim Killock (talk) 05:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Latin-language writers of late antiquity to Category:Writers of late antiquity in Latin – C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Very clumsy sounding Jim Killock (talk) 05:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Classical Latin-language writers to Category:Writers in Classical Latin – C2C: Parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 00:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Very clumsy sounding Jim Killock (talk) 05:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Old Latin-language writers to Category:Writers in Old Latin – C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 00:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Sounds clumsy. Same Jim Killock (talk) 05:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Renaissance Latin-language writers to Category:Renaissance writers in Latin – C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 00:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Sounds weird per others Jim Killock (talk) 05:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Medieval Latin-language writers to Category:Medieval writers in Latin – C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period. NLeeuw (talk) 00:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Same Jim Killock (talk) 05:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Same. These sound weird. Jim Killock (talk) 05:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- @JimKillock The parent Category:Writers in Latin by period and grandparent Category:Writers in Latin and other related categories were all renamed by consensus last year: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7#Category:Latin-language writers. These are just logical follow-ups to that result. The reason we went for this formula is explained at length in that nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- But these are not "by period"; they are "by style". This especially true for Neo-Latin. The periods and styles often coincide, but not precisely. Better would be to follow the styles defined in the articles, so:
- I've explained elsewhere that the periods and styles are not precise. For instance, a writer in the Renaissance may have employed Medieval Latin, or Renaissance Latin; and some may define their Renaissance Latin as Neo-Latin. These are stylistic boundaries which roughly match period, but it is the style, not the period, that determines their classifications. Jim Killock (talk) 19:50, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- @JimKillock I know. Category:14th-century Neo-Latin writers were a thing; it's good that you created that category. But I don't see how it would create a problem if we renamed it Category:14th-century writers in Neo-Latin. If anything, it is even clearer that "14th-century" refers to "writers" and not to "Neo-Latin", so that we shouldn't assume that the kind of Latin they wrote was Medieval Latin. This is all the more reason in favour of renaming, so that our readers understand the difference between style and period. NLeeuw (talk) 14:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- The issue is that the whole category structure is used to amalgamate and conflate these two ideas. I don't have an easy solution to it, that doesn't involve some work. It's reasonable to say that a C12th Medieval Latin writer used Medieval Latin, or a C20th writer uses Neo-Latin. Boundary centuries seem debateable. However, the structure makes an absolute assumption, that century and style are the same, except where I started to break it up. This has come up in two recent discussions, the other being when someone wanted to remove my boundary category. But it's clear that the intention was that Category:Classical Latin-language writers should contain Classical Latin writers, ie be a style category, not a time category. Likewise, Late Latin and Neo-Latin. There can be doubt about medieval Latin because of it seems to refer to a period rather than a style; however as it is a set of style categories we should assume it is about style, likewise for Renaissance Latin. The fact that the categories group information from centuries is a laziness, nothing more. In short it is a mess but it is only made worse by changing the names to appear to refer to time periods, some of which don't really exist (Classical Latin isn't a time, nor is Latin Latin, nor is Neo-Latin).
- Category:Writers in Classical Latin; Category:Writers in Neo-Latin - these all refer to a style; they are acceptable from that perspective, but they sounds strange / clumsy to my ear; the natural way to say is Category:Classical Latin writers, Category:Neo-Latin writers, or as close to that as WP allows.
- Taking one example to show why the suggested formulation can sound wrong. Category:Writers in Old Latin; Old Latin is recognised as a phase of Latin, rather than a "style" of Latin, so a bit different, but it functions the same. It is like Old English, not quite the same as Modern English. So, "writers in Old Latin" doesn't work because You [verb] in [language]; you don't [person] in [language]. It is either People writing in Old Latin or Old Latin writers. So Category:Old Latin writers sounds better, another option would be Category:Writers using Old Latin.
- Category:Renaissance writers in Latin; Category:Medieval writers in Latin - refer to a time period and remove the style names. These would need to be Category:Writers in Renaissance Latin; Category:Writers in Medieval Latin. This is not great English, most natural would be Category:Medieval Latin writers, Category: Renaissance Latin writers
- So there seems to be some inconsistency of approach in the current suggestion, as well as a somewhat clumsy use of "in" that isn't needed.
- It has taken me some time to pinpoint the issue with "in"; but I think it is because language can be either a noun or an adjective. When it is a style, describing how someone writes, "Classical Latin" etc, is an adjective. If "Classical Latin" is an adjective, then "in" shouldn't be used. If "Classical Latin" is a noun, as with "Classical Latin" the topic then "in" is possible, eg "Grammar in Classical Latin", or "They write in Classical Latin". As an adjective, it works as "Classical Latin writers". --Jim Killock (talk) 00:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose this will have to be moved to full then... NLeeuw (talk) 13:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Moved to full: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 15#Category:Neo-Latin writers. NLeeuw (talk) 17:40, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose this will have to be moved to full then... NLeeuw (talk) 13:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- @JimKillock I know. Category:14th-century Neo-Latin writers were a thing; it's good that you created that category. But I don't see how it would create a problem if we renamed it Category:14th-century writers in Neo-Latin. If anything, it is even clearer that "14th-century" refers to "writers" and not to "Neo-Latin", so that we shouldn't assume that the kind of Latin they wrote was Medieval Latin. This is all the more reason in favour of renaming, so that our readers understand the difference between style and period. NLeeuw (talk) 14:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- @JimKillock The parent Category:Writers in Latin by period and grandparent Category:Writers in Latin and other related categories were all renamed by consensus last year: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7#Category:Latin-language writers. These are just logical follow-ups to that result. The reason we went for this formula is explained at length in that nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Tamil language encyclopedias to Category:Tamil-language encyclopedias – C2A: MOS:HYPHEN –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Tamil per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw (talk) 00:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Tamil per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
- Category:Bengali encyclopedias to Category:Bengali-language encyclopedias – C2C: Category:Bengali-language literature, etc. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Bengali per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw (talk) 00:30, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Bengali per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
- Category:Albanian encyclopedias to Category:Albanian-language encyclopedias – C2C: Category:Belarusian-language literature, etc. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Albanian per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw (talk) 00:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Albanian per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
- Category:Belarusian encyclopedias to Category:Belarusian-language encyclopedias – C2C: Category:Belarusian-language literature, etc. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Belarusian per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw (talk) 00:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- No objection, but prefer Category:Encyclopedias in Belarusian per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
- @LaundryPizza03 and Nederlandse Leeuw: either you have to agree on something, or this should be moved to full discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- There are several similar CfD's that are ongoing, such as Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_1#Category:Dutch_encyclopedias, so I'd go to full. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Going full is fine with me. I hope we end up with a naming convention that is consistently applied. LP's speedy proposals are an improvement, and a fine intermediate step, but if we could skip that step and rename them all to
Encyclopedias in Fooian
in one go, well, all the better. :) NLeeuw (talk) 07:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)- @LaundryPizza03 Is it okay if I add these 4 proposals of yours to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_1#Category:Dutch_encyclopedias in order to centralise the discussion? I'll have
Encyclopedias in Fooian
(my proposal) as Option 1 andFooian-language encyclopedias
(your proposal) as Option 2. NLeeuw (talk) 07:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)- PS: I recommend we keep the discussion about splitting Bulgarian encyclopedias separate. (I agree with your proposal to split them; we could always change the 2nd target's name based on the outcome of the Dutch &c. encyclopedias discussion). NLeeuw (talk) 07:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Okay. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:27, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Moved to full: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 1#Category:Dutch encyclopedias. I'll update the LP's 4 nominees' tags as well, with LP's proposed name and linking to my expanded nom. NLeeuw (talk) 16:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- @LaundryPizza03 Is it okay if I add these 4 proposals of yours to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_1#Category:Dutch_encyclopedias in order to centralise the discussion? I'll have
- Going full is fine with me. I hope we end up with a naming convention that is consistently applied. LP's speedy proposals are an improvement, and a fine intermediate step, but if we could skip that step and rename them all to
- There are several similar CfD's that are ongoing, such as Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_1#Category:Dutch_encyclopedias, so I'd go to full. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- @LaundryPizza03 and Nederlandse Leeuw: either you have to agree on something, or this should be moved to full discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Scholars of Mycenaean Greek to Category:Linguists of Mycenaean Greek – C2C: Uncles/aunts in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
. NLeeuw (talk) 20:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC) - Category:Scholars of Medieval Greek to Category:Linguists of Medieval Greek – C2C: Uncles/aunts in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
. NLeeuw (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC) - Category:Scholars of Koine Greek to Category:Linguists of Koine Greek – C2C: Uncles/aunts in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
. NLeeuw (talk) 20:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC) - Category:Scholars of Ancient Greek to Category:Linguists of Ancient Greek – C2C: Uncles/aunts in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
. NLeeuw (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC) - Category:Scholars of Greek language to Category:Linguists of Greek – C2C: Siblings in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
. NLeeuw (talk) 20:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)- Comment Nederlandse Leeuw, I don't think the categories for Scholars of Greek are suitable for speedy renaming as the categories contain a mixture of scholars of Greek language and literature. Also Latin is the other classical language and there is no Category:Linguists of Latin. TSventon (talk) 22:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- @TSventon I discussed thus with @Fayenatic london in another thread (about Category:Grammarians of Persian), he thought it was a good idea. It's virtually impossible to study the literature of a language without also studying the language itself. (I've been studying Old East Slavic as an amateur lately, because I want to write about Rus' chronicles on Wikipedia). Also, Category:Latinists exists; it currently serves the same function as a Category:Linguists of Latin would. NLeeuw (talk) 02:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nederlandse Leeuw, I have looked at the content of the categories and am suggesting that these categories are not suitable for speedy renaming. I am happy for the CfD admins to accept or reject my argument. Studying the literature of a language generally involves studying the language itself, but some academics focus more on literature and others on liguistic topics and this is reflected in our categories. Category:Latinists exists and has a Greek counterpart, Category:Hellenists. TSventon (talk) 14:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Okay. I'm not convinced this makes them unsuitable for speedy renaming, but we'll see. Otherwise I'm happy to move to full, although I think it's unnecessary. NLeeuw (talk) 14:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think this kind of discussion is better held at a full CfD than here. Ymblanter (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Moved to full: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 5#Category:Scholars of Greek language. NLeeuw (talk) 10:06, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think this kind of discussion is better held at a full CfD than here. Ymblanter (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Okay. I'm not convinced this makes them unsuitable for speedy renaming, but we'll see. Otherwise I'm happy to move to full, although I think it's unnecessary. NLeeuw (talk) 14:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nederlandse Leeuw, I have looked at the content of the categories and am suggesting that these categories are not suitable for speedy renaming. I am happy for the CfD admins to accept or reject my argument. Studying the literature of a language generally involves studying the language itself, but some academics focus more on literature and others on liguistic topics and this is reflected in our categories. Category:Latinists exists and has a Greek counterpart, Category:Hellenists. TSventon (talk) 14:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- @TSventon I discussed thus with @Fayenatic london in another thread (about Category:Grammarians of Persian), he thought it was a good idea. It's virtually impossible to study the literature of a language without also studying the language itself. (I've been studying Old East Slavic as an amateur lately, because I want to write about Rus' chronicles on Wikipedia). Also, Category:Latinists exists; it currently serves the same function as a Category:Linguists of Latin would. NLeeuw (talk) 02:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Nederlandse Leeuw, I don't think the categories for Scholars of Greek are suitable for speedy renaming as the categories contain a mixture of scholars of Greek language and literature. Also Latin is the other classical language and there is no Category:Linguists of Latin. TSventon (talk) 22:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
PLEASE NOTE: I have moved all of the following Categories here pending adequate confirmation of their eligibility under C2C. I made a serious effort to look for that, but was unable to find such confirmation. There is a massive jumbled welter of Categories in this realm, with no prevailing pattern that I can discern. Anomalous+0 (talk) 07:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:20th-century Canadian people by ethnic or national origin to Category:20th-century Canadian people by descent – C2C: Special:Diff/1196829100 1234qwer1234qwer4 22:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian people by century and ethnic or national origin to Category:Canadian people by century and descent – C2C: Special:Diff/1196829100 1234qwer1234qwer4 22:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:20th-century American people by ethnic or national origin to Category:20th-century American people by descent – C2C: Special:Diff/1195787538. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American people by century and ethnic or national origin to Category:American people by century and decent – C2C: Special:Diff/1195787538. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Male actors by ethnic or national descent to Category:Male actors by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Male television actors by ethnic or national descent to Category:Male television actors by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Television actresses by ethnic or national descent to Category:Television actresses by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:30, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Actresses by ethnic or national descent to Category:Actresses by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:30, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Television actors by ethnic or national descent to Category:Television actors by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:30, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Actors by ethnic or national descent to Category:Actors by ethnicity – C2C: See Category:People by occupation and ethnicity. 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Anomalous+0, I have linked Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 10#Container categories by descent down below; is that not enough? 1234qwer1234qwer4 21:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
++
- Category:American rappers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American rappers by descent – C2C: See also Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 10#Container categories by descent for all the ones below. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Members of the United States Congress by ethnic or national origin to Category:Members of the United States Congress by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian musicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Canadian musicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American gangsters by ethnic or national origin to Category:American gangsters by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Northern Mariana Islands people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Northern Mariana Islands people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:09, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American social scientists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American social scientists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:09, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian people by ethnic or national origin and century to Category:Canadian people by descent and century – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:09, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Romanian people by ethnic or national origin and occupation to Category:Romanian people by descent and occupation – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:09, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Murdered American people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Murdered American people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American sculptors by ethnic or national origin to Category:American sculptors by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American people by ethnic or national origin and century to Category:American people by descent and century – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American classical musicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:American classical musicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American male actors by ethnic or national origin to Category:American male actors by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American singers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American singers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Malaysian politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Malaysian politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:French politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:French politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Dutch politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Dutch politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Transnistrian people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Transnistrian people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Brazilian actresses by ethnic or national origin to Category:Brazilian actresses by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:East German people by ethnic or national origin to Category:East German people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American actresses by ethnic or national origin to Category:American actresses by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Hawaii people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Hawaii people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Filipino politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Filipino politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Middle Eastern people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Middle Eastern people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Moldovan politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Moldovan politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Cebuano people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Cebuano people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Swedish politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Swedish politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:05, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American photographers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American photographers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:05, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Indonesian politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Indonesian politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:05, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Romanian politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:Romanian politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:03, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American academics by ethnic or national origin to Category:American academics by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:03, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American short story writers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American short story writers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American novelists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American novelists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American dramatists and playwrights by ethnic or national origin to Category:American dramatists and playwrights by descent – C2A. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American poets by ethnic or national origin to Category:American poets by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian trade unionists by ethnic or national origin to Category:Canadian trade unionists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian writers by ethnic or national origin to Category:Canadian writers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian families by ethnic or national origin to Category:Canadian families by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 18:00, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Turks and Caicos Islands people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Turks and Caicos Islands people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Montserratian people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Montserratian people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Manx people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Manx people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:59, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Jersey people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Jersey people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Guernsey people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Guernsey people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Caymanian people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Caymanian people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:United States Virgin Islands people by ethnic or national origin to Category:United States Virgin Islands people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Sint Maarten people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Sint Maarten people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Saint Martinois people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Saint Martinois people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Martiniquais people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Martiniquais people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:People from Overseas France by ethnic or national origin to Category:People from Overseas France by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Guadeloupean people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Guadeloupean people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Curaçao people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Curaçao people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Aruban people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Aruban people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Caribbean people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Caribbean people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:56, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Anguillan people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Anguillan people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:55, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:British writers by ethnic or national origin to Category:British writers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:55, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Welsh people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Welsh people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:Scottish people by ethnic or national origin to Category:Scottish people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:People from British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies by ethnic or national origin to Category:People from British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:People from Northern Ireland by ethnic or national origin to Category:People from Northern Ireland by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:53, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American writers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American writers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American trade unionists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American trade unionists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American scientists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American scientists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American professional wrestlers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American professional wrestlers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American politicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:American politicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American physicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:American physicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American musicians by ethnic or national origin to Category:American musicians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American models by ethnic or national origin to Category:American models by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American military personnel by ethnic or national origin to Category:American military personnel by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American lawyers by ethnic or national origin to Category:American lawyers by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American journalists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American journalists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:49, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American film directors by ethnic or national origin to Category:American film directors by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American educators by ethnic or national origin to Category:American educators by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American comedians by ethnic or national origin to Category:American comedians by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American aviators by ethnic or national origin to Category:American aviators by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American artists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American artists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American architects by ethnic or national origin to Category:American architects by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American actors by ethnic or national origin to Category:American actors by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American activists by ethnic or national origin to Category:American activists by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:46, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American people by occupation and ethnic or national origin to Category:American people by occupation and descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:45, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:American people by ethnic or national origin and occupation to Category:American people by descent and occupation – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Category:English people by ethnic or national origin to Category:English people by descent – C2C. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose for now to all by ethnic or national origin nominations. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 08:35, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- The existing wording sounds more natural and is easier to understand. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 14:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- A first attempt to resolve this is here at full discussion: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_March_30#Category:English_people_by_ethnic_or_national_origin and Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_9#Category:Swedish_politicians_by_ethnic_or_national_origin. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Current discussions[edit]
April 25[edit]
NEW NOMINATIONS[edit]
Category:KCIC Line[edit]
Category:Sikh terminology[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: delete, this is a whole lot of entirely unrelated terms which have already been dispersed among other subcategories of Category:Sikhism. The only exceptions are Glossary of Sikhism, Patit and Sahajdhari which should be moved to Category:Sikhism. Many "terminology" categories have been deleted before. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
April 24[edit]
Category:20th-century Palestinian philosophers[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: 2x upmerge for now. There's not enough content to support diffusing Palestinian philosophers by century (2 people). Using petscan, I only found false positives https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=28100706 Mason (talk) 23:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:42, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Cleveland Indians owners[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Cleveland Indians owners to Category:?
- Nominator's rationale: Remove redirect/undo merge. This category was turned into a redirect by my own error. It was a part of a Cfd I started but this particular category was not meant to be part of it. It should be a part of a larger tree of MLB owners (personnel have their own seperate tree regardless of what the name of the team was/is). Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging @HouseBlaster, who closed the Cfd in question. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- For the record, the preceding CFD is Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_March_20#Category:Cleveland_Indians. It is hard to see what is wrong with the redirect to Category:Cleveland Guardians owners. @Omnis Scientia: is it that you want to split Category:Cleveland Guardians owners to Category:Cleveland Indians owners? if so then I suggest you delete this nomination and start again using {{cfs}} on the Guardians cat. – Fayenatic London 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london, you think its fine like this? If so then I will withdraw and leave it be. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think I will close it for now and ask on WP:Baseball first. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london, you think its fine like this? If so then I will withdraw and leave it be. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
British Conservative Jews[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:British Conservative Jews to Category:British Masorti Jews
- Propose renaming Category:British Conservative rabbis to Category:British Masorti rabbis
- Nominator's rationale: Rename and redirect. Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7#Category:Conservative Judaism in the United Kingdom. – Fayenatic London 21:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per above --Lenticel (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:George Gershwin in film[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:George Gershwin in film to Category:Films scored by George Gershwin
- Nominator's rationale: To match everything else under Category:Film scores by composer. Fuddle (talk) 19:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. These are not films about George Gershwin. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom --Lenticel (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Arab-Jewish diaspora[edit]
- Propose deleting Category:Arab-Jewish diaspora (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Arab-Jewish diaspora in France (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Arab-Jewish diaspora in the United States (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: Confusion arises between Arab-Jewish ethnicity and the geographical grouping of member countries in the Arab League. Not all Moroccan Jews belong to the Arab-Jewish group, among other examples. Aldij (talk) 18:31, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, largely overlaps with the tree of Category:Sephardi Jewish culture. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note 1: see also recent discussions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 21#Category:Arab-Jewish culture in the United States (no consensus to merge Arab-Jewish to Mizrahi Jewish) and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 31#Category:Arab-Jewish culture in the United States (consensus to rename Arab-Jewish culture to Arab-Jewish diaspora).
- Note 2: if these are deleted, I believe Category:Middle Eastern-Jewish diaspora and Category:North African-Jewish diaspora will remain undisturbed, and between them would continue to provide part of whatever may be useful in the top nominated category. Those 2 should be given see-also links to each other and to/from Category:Arab-Jewish culture.
- Note 3: Sephardi Jewish culture in France and Mizrahi Jewish culture in the United States will still contain the subcats of the other nominated categories, and the articles in the last one are within Sephardi Jewish culture in the United States. – Fayenatic London 21:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- The article Arab Jews begins, "Arab Jews is a term for Jews living in or originating from the Arab world. The term is politically contested, often by Zionists or by Jews with roots in the Arab world who prefer to be identified as Mizrahi Jews." Presumably "the Arab-Jewish group" of which the nominator Aldij speaks is one party to that political dispute. Well, if the categorisation is both contentious and a partial duplication of a less contentious hierarchy, then delete under WP:OVERLAPCAT. – Fayenatic London 21:59, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:United States National Recording Registry albums[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The same rationale as last time: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 28#Category:United States National Recording Registry albums. I still see no reason for this category to be active and it is still redudant to Category:United States National Recording Registry recordings. Even if all the album articles were listed under the United States National Recording Registry albums category, that would just leave songs and other miscellaneous records under the United States National Recording Registry recordings category. It is really a crime to have all the inducted recordings under one category? QuasyBoy (talk) 18:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- If not kept, at least merge to Category:United States National Recording Registry recordings rather than delete. Nominator does not make clear what is wrong with Category:United States National Recording Registry albums though. It is not redundant per se, it is simply more specific. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Pocatello Army Air Base Bombardiers football seasons[edit]
- Keep; standard cat scheme. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Saying something is standard, so we should keep it, is not a compelling reason. Having only one category is not helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes it is. Parallelism matters and should be considered a central pillar of Wikipedia. If this cat merged as nominated, then 1943 Pocatello Army Air Base Bombardiers football team is lost from the tree at Category:College football seasons by team. User:Let'srun's notations here are becoming tiresome and obstructive. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with the problem, it should also be merged to Category:College football seasons. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes it is. Parallelism matters and should be considered a central pillar of Wikipedia. If this cat merged as nominated, then 1943 Pocatello Army Air Base Bombardiers football team is lost from the tree at Category:College football seasons by team. User:Let'srun's notations here are becoming tiresome and obstructive. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Defunct National Association of Professional Base Ball Players teams[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The NAPBBP has been defunct for over a century. User:Namiba 16:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Rocket Power video games[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Rocket Power video games to Category:Rocket Power
- Nominator's rationale: Only has one article, unlikely to expand. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom --Lenticel (talk) 07:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Dutch atheist writers[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Dutch atheist writers to Category:Dutch writers on atheism
- Nominator's rationale: parent is Writers on atheism and this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_March_19#Category:Writers_on_Atheism Mason (talk) 13:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename and purge per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per above --Lenticel (talk) 07:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Nazi Germany ministers[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Nazi Germany ministers to Category:Hitler cabinet ministers
- Nominator's rationale: Fix the rather ungrammatical title of this category and rename it to be consistent the main article, Hitler cabinet (t · c) buidhe 04:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment (no oppose): I think that Category:Ministers of Nazi Germany sounds better. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Provincial Women's Hockey League teams[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: League was renamed in 2022 Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 04:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:American people of Zimbabwean descent by occupation[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: There's no need to diffuse this category by occupation, when there is only one occupation in it Mason (talk) 03:08, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Merge per nom.Marcocapelle (talk) 05:35, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile the nomination is moot. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, @Marcocapelle I filled it with some other categories so there's no longer just one occupation in it. Thanks, --Habst (talk) 12:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Ethnic Hungarian politicians outside Hungary[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: borderline C2C based on the parent category of People of Hungarian descent and sibling Sportspeople of Hungarian descent Mason (talk) 02:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete with its subcategory, the article in the subcategory is already in Category:Serbian people of Hungarian descent while the subcategory therein is already in Category:Hungarians in Vojvodina. The article (about a Hungarian parent of a Serb) and the subcategory (about the ethnic Hungarian people in Vojvodina) are entirely unrelated. I will tag the subcategory too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Asian American billionaires[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: As per the closure of Category:American Jewish billionaires recently, this also appears to be a case of WP:OCEGRS and was created by the same editor. Hilariously, it includes Richard Yuengling Jr., who'd surely be surprised at this revelation of his heritage. Chubbles (talk) 02:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- I suppose it should be merged to Category:American billionaires instead of plainly deleted? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Assassinated Iranian Kurdish dissidents[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining 4x intersection of ethnicity, political orientation, nationality, and cause of death. This definitely doesn't meet the criteria under WP:EGRS Mason (talk) 00:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support, if only because Category:Assassinated Iranian dissidents doesn't currently exist. AHI-3000 (talk) 02:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
April 23[edit]
Category:Drum Corps Associates corps[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Drum Corps Associates corps to Category:Former Drum Corps Associates corps
- Nominator's rationale: The organization was dissolved and the members moved to the All-Age classification of Drum Corps International. I wish to rename it to Former Drum Corps Associates corps for maintaining the grouping for its historicity. Why? I Ask (talk) 06:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Why? I Ask: wouldn't it make more sense to categorize by what they are and always have been, namely Category:All-age drum corps? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- They should be in both. Why? I Ask (talk) 23:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- No, they should not be in both, because if Category:Drum Corps Associates corps would be kept as Category:Former Drum Corps Associates corps, then Category:All-age drum corps would be its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:55, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- Nope, because some corps had switched to being junior corps (e.g., Carolina Gold Drum and Bugle Corps). Why? I Ask (talk) 00:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- In that case delete, this merely leads to WP:OCAT and WP:OVERLAPCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle: How about this? Have Category:All-age drum and bugle corps point to both Category:Drum Corps Associates corps (for the defunct corps that did not make the move to Drum Corps Internationa) and Category:Drum Corps International All-Age Class corps (for the modern ones). Would support either changing the name or keeping it. But I do not support deletion for this category. Why? I Ask (talk) 05:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- In that case delete, this merely leads to WP:OCAT and WP:OVERLAPCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Nope, because some corps had switched to being junior corps (e.g., Carolina Gold Drum and Bugle Corps). Why? I Ask (talk) 00:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or rename?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 13:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This will be the last relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 21:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Slavic-American history[edit]
- Propose upmerging Category:Slavic-American history to Category:European-American history
- Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7#Category:Eastern European diaspora in the United States, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slavic Americans (2nd nomination), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Slavic diaspora, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 26#Language family diasporas, and many more. This is a classic example of an inappropriate intersection of the Category:People by nationality tree and the Category:People by ethnicity tree. There is no country in the world whose nationals are all native speakers of a language of the same language family. NLeeuw (talk) 21:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge, trivial intersection as is obvious from the very small amount of overarching topic articles. Funnily enough, Hunky (ethnic slur) is derived from Hungarian, who are not Slavic at all. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Archaeological organizations based in the Republic of Ireland[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: speedy rename as WP:C2E. (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 20:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Wires got crossed while doing large-scale category organiz(s)ation; move needed to comply with naming conventions for this country's categories – TCMemoire 19:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Tigers in Meitei culture[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: WP:TRIVIALCAT PepperBeast (talk) 02:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure, there is also Category:Tigers in popular culture. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 04:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This seems to be about fictional or mythical tigers in Meitei culture, which would not exist if not for the Meitei culture, so this seems to be WP:DEFINING. NLeeuw (talk) 19:45, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Mohave tribe[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Mohave tribe to Category:Mohave
- Nominator's rationle: The Mohave people belong to two tribes, the Fort Mojave Indian Tribe and the Colorado River Indian Tribes. The current name implies that the Mohave people belong to a single tribe. Rename for accuracy. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 20:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comments I guess the proposed move is an improvement, although the fact that people belong to two different federally recognized tribes does not prevent them belonging to a single (non federally recognized) tribe. It is best to forestall readers drawing the inference, even if it is an invalid inference, hence deleting "
peopletribe"† from the name is an improvement. OTOH article Mohave is currently a dab, so the shorter name may be ambiguous. I ask whether Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America has (or ought to have) any standard/guideline for category (and corresponding article) names —— e.g. capitalization; legal name vs common name; and group taxonomy labels (e.g. "people" vs "nation" vs "tribe" vs nothing; always vs disambiguation vs never). From browsing, I infer that "Category:Foo people" is the standard for subcats of Category:Native American people by tribe, so Category:Mohave people is about individuals (plural "people") whereas Mohave people is about the group (singular "people"). (The fact that Category:Mohave people is a subcat of Category:Native American people by tribe also seems to imply, contra the nomination, that that the Mohave people are in some sense a tribe.) jnestorius(talk) 23:55, 9 April 2024 (UTC)- † corrected myself: current name is "Mohave tribe", not "Mohave people" jnestorius(talk) 22:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Regardless whether it is renamed or not, shouldn't we convert the category page to a disambiguation page just like in article space? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Jnestorius Being a people is not the same as being a tribe. EG, the article for Cherokee refers to them as an Indigenous people belonging to three tribes; the Cherokee Nation, the Eastern Band, and the United Keetoowah Band. Mohave peoplehood doesn't imply being a single tribe. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 11:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
the article for Cherokee refers to them as an Indigenous people belonging to three tribes
No, it says "three Cherokee tribes are federally recognized", not the same thing. It also says 'By the 19th century, White American settlers had classified the Cherokee of the Southeast as one of the "Five Civilized Tribes"'. Five Civilized Tribes says "The term Five Civilized Tribes was applied ... to the five major Native American nations in the Southeast". Category:Cherokee people is a direct subcat of Category:Native American people by tribe. Article Tribe (Native American) says "In the United States, an American Indian tribe, Native American tribe, Alaska Native village, Indigenous tribe or Tribal nation may be any current or historical tribe, band, nation, or community of Native Americans in the United States. ... Many terms used to describe Indigenous peoples of the United States are contested but have legal definitions that are not always understood by the general public." We have a variety of words (tribe, band, nation, community, people, ...) used variously across different articles and categories, sometimes in accordance with a US federal legal definition, sometimes in a different sense used by ethnologists or historians; sometimes meaning an ethnic group, sometimes a subcomponent of an ethnic group split out by geography, administration, or something else. Are you implying that Wikipedia article/category titles should always used words in the sense given to them by U.S. federal law? That is certainly not true in general; it may be the consensus for WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America but I have not seen evidence of that yet. jnestorius(talk) 13:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support for simiplicity's sake, although Category:Mojave would be even better. "tribe" lowercased isn't a problem, so not enthusiastic about massive renaming of all Foo tribe categories. Yuchitown (talk) 23:55, 10 April 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Comments in general would be appreciated, but in particular input on whether this should be a {{category disambiguation}} and the precise new name – if it is to be renamed – whether the new name should be "Mohave" or "Mojave".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 04:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy rename to Category:Mohave people per WP:C2D. The main article is Mohave people. Let's not make it needlessly complicated. NLeeuw (talk) 14:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Your proposed new name is not available, because it is an existing subcategory. Are you suggesting merging the two? In general we have separate categories for an ethnicity and for people who have that ethnicity; merging them only makes sense if they are both small. jnestorius(talk) 17:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hmmm now that you mention it, yes. The subcategory (created February 2023) has only 3 articles and a subsubcategory with 2 articles.
- Step 1: Upmerge Category:Mohave people (3 P) and Category:Colorado River Indian Tribes people (2 P) to Category:Mohave tribe per WP:MFN.
- Step 2: Rename Category:Mohave tribe to Category:Mohave people per WP:C2D. NLeeuw (talk) 04:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Your proposed new name is not available, because it is an existing subcategory. Are you suggesting merging the two? In general we have separate categories for an ethnicity and for people who have that ethnicity; merging them only makes sense if they are both small. jnestorius(talk) 17:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Fwiw, step 1 and 2 can be combined by merging Category:Mohave tribe and Category:Colorado River Indian Tribes people to Category:Mohave people. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Dutch cookies[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: overcategorization, attempt to empty the categories cookie and Dutch cuisine. The Banner talk 07:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- If not kept then at least merge to Category:Cookies and Category:Dutch confectionery. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- The articles in that category were original part of both categories you have mentioned. Hence the overcategorization-claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Banner (talk • contribs) 15:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as category creator. What makes this over categorization? Categorizing foods by their national origin is a fairly standard practice as can be seen by container categories such as Category:Pastries_by_country, Category:Doughnuts by country, and Category:Cakes by country. BaduFerreira (talk) 14:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Film controversies in Spain[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: All 4 items are articles about the films themselves. Follow-up to previous CfDs finding that the controversy should be the subject of a stand-alone article, and not just a (sub)section in the article about the film itself.
- Precedents:
- Articles about films themselves cannot be labelled "controversial" per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Category:Controversial films has been repeatedly deleted (last in 2008).
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 1#Category:Film controversies: keep. There also appears to be consensus that articles about the films themselves should not be placed in this category.
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 October 23#Category:Christmas film controversies (deleted)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 October 23#Category:Adventure film controversies (deleted)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 March 5#Category:Animation controversies in film (films purged, remainder merged to Category:Film controversies).
- That also applies here. Should a sufficient number of stand-alone articles about film controversies in Spain be written, this category can be re-created without prejudice. NLeeuw (talk) 14:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose. I would note that there are 59 other sibling categories in Category:Film controversies by country, and all of them are populated almost entirely by "the films themselves" rather than "stand-alone" articles about the controversies as separate topics. So I'm unclear on why this would be different than all of the others — either they're all problematic for the same reasons and need to be collectively considered together, or this is as valid as the others, and there's no legitimate reason to single this one out for different treatment than the others.
As well, most of the "precedents" listed above aren't particularly relevant here — Christmas, adventure and animation didn't get deleted on the grounds that it was fundamentally improper to categorize films as "controversial", they got deleted on the grounds that the intersection of controversy with genre wasn't defining. So I'm not at all wedded to the need for this, but those categories have nothing to do with it because they're not the same issue in the slightest. Bearcat (talk) 15:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)- Fair points. In my defence, I didn't intend to single out Spain and spare all other countries in the world; I was just busy improving the Category:Culture of Spain tree, as you can see.
- Per WP:OTHERSTUFF, feel free to follow-up nominate all other categories populated only by articles about the films and not stand-alone articles on the controversies they created. I did not intend setting a higher standard for Spain; if we conclude this category is improper, or at least improperly populated at the moment, that should evidently apply to all children of Category:Film controversies by country. NLeeuw (talk) 19:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- While I understand that we cannot single out one country, I would encourage a broader nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Food gods[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Food gods to Category:Agricultural gods
- Propose merging Category:Harvest gods to Category:Agricultural gods
- Propose merging Category:Food goddesses to Category:Agricultural goddesses
- Propose merging Category:Harvest goddesses to Category:Agricultural goddesses
- Propose merging Category:Food deities to Category:Agricultural deities
- Propose merging Category:Harvest deities to Category:Agricultural deities
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERLAPCAT PepperBeast (talk) 11:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support merging Category:Harvest deities to Category:Agricultural deities, but keep Category:Food deities instead of merging it, I think the Food gods/goddesses are related but not the exact same thing as Agricultural gods/goddesses. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- In principle, I agree with you, but all the deities I checked that are currently categorized as food gods/goddesses/deities are actually harvest/agriculture gods. PepperBeast (talk) 00:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose merge for Food deities agree with @AHI-3000, The Hindu goddess Annapurna (goddess) is the goddess of food, but is unrelated to Agriculture. Phosop is the goddess of rice, not agriculture in general. Mellona is the goddess of apples. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- In principle, I agree with you, but all the deities I checked that are currently categorized as food gods/goddesses/deities are actually harvest/agriculture gods. PepperBeast (talk) 00:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support merging Category:Harvest deities to Category:Agricultural deities, but keep Category:Food deities instead of merging it, I think the Food gods/goddesses are related but not the exact same thing as Agricultural gods/goddesses. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 19:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisted per this request at my talk page (previously closed as "merge").
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 16:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Even if we keep Category:Food gods then most entries should still be moved from there to Category:Agricultural gods. An alternative is to merge and rename to Category:Agriculture and food gods. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Food and agricultural/ Harvest are two different characteristics. There is many agricultural/harvest deities, who are also related to Grain, thus food. There are other overlaps also. Many agricultural deities are also fertility deities as they make humans and the land fertile. Redtigerxyz Talk 14:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose merging food god(esse)s/deities. Not all food is derived from agriculture, which is why we have Category:Hunting deities -- there are other ways to get food. Hunter-gatherers don't do agriculture. -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 21:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:USA for Africa songs[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Categories containing only 1 article. Unlikely to be expanded since the group has been inactive for 40 years. Mika1h (talk) 12:59, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: See comment by Pppery.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 17:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep While not a guideline, there is consensus per WP:ALBUMSTYLE "that a category for an artist's albums should be created even if they have only released one album (irrespective of whether they are likely to release more in the future)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk • contribs) 18:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Does that still apply if there is no article for the artist? USA for Africa redirects to the single. – Fayenatic London 08:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Canadian military personnel from Kelowna[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization by location. While a few Canadian cities do have "Military personnel from City" categories (but not "Canadian military personnel from City"), there's no comprehensive scheme in place of doing this across the board for all cities — they otherwise exist only for the major megacities with populations of half a million or more, whose base "People from City" categories were overpopulated into the hundreds or thousands and needed diffusion for size control, and not for every city across the board. But with just 67 articles in Category:Canadian military personnel from British Columbia and just six in Category:People from Kelowna, neither of the parent categories are large enough to need this for diffusability. There's no particularly unique relationship between military service and being from Kelowna per se, so this isn't needed for just three people if other Canadian cities in Kelowna's weight class (Lethbridge, Regina, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Sudbury, Gatineau, Sherbrooke, Moncton, etc.) don't have the same. Bearcat (talk) 14:51, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Disagree Kelowna is the third largest locality in BC. Uncontroversial categories exist for the two largest localities (Vancouver and Victoria). It already has three entries which is often considered the criterion for a category, and is likely to gain more in the future as more biographies are created. ☆ Bri (talk) 15:11, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Firstly, the standard minimum size for a category is normally five, not three, and even then size alone doesn't automatically trump other considerations. A category that is failing or violating other rules isn't exempted from those other rules just because you can get its size to five per se.
- Secondly, "(Canadian) military personnel" categories don't exist for either Vancouver or Victoria at all yet, so I don't know what you even think you're talking about with that argument.
- Thirdly, it's not "ordinal size rank within province" that determines whether such a category is warranted in this tree, but "is the base people-from category large enough to need diffusion or not" — which with just six people in it now and only nine even if these get upmerged to it (well, actually eight, because one of these three people is already in a different occupational subcategory as it is), Kelowna's is not. At present, these categories exist only for big cities where an undifferentiated "People from" category without occupational subcategories would be populated past the 500-article or 1,000-article marks, which is not where Kelowna is sitting, and they do not automatically exist as a matter of course for every small or medium city that had one, two or three military people come from there.
- My mistake on thinking there was a category for military personnel from Victoria and Vancouver. It is actually Category:Writers from British Columbia that includes those two cities, and now (since I created it) Kelowna. Which is a good reason to think maybe they should all be in a category, rather than ruling out Kelowna because the other two haven't been created yet.
- I could add Trevor Cadieu from Vernon, which is on the same lake as Kelowna and with city limits separated by ~10 km, possibly considered a suburb. Also since this nom, I discovered that George Randolph Pearkes served with the BC Dragoons which is a Kelowna reserve unit (Okanagan Military Museum). I don't want to change the categories of either bio right now in case this is an error and would be perceived as gaming this nom. ☆ Bri (talk) 17:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Found one more notable definitely described as "from Kelowna" by Okanagan Military Museum: Rodney Frederick Leopold Keller. ☆ Bri (talk) 17:28, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- The smallest other city with a sibling category is both (a) four times Kelowna's size, and (b) about 80 years older than Kelowna, both adding up to the fact it has several hundred more articles in its "People from" tree than Kelowna does, and thus needs to be diffused more than Kelowna's does. Bearcat (talk) 15:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 17:44, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:LGBT-related music to Category:LGBT music
- Nominator's rationale: An odd entry in Category:LGBT arts, because of the "-related" adjective not shared by any parent category (but shared by some subcategories that may need to be renamed as well). Sister categories at that level (in LGBT arts) are just LGBT dance, LGBT literature, LGBT arts organizations, LGBT theatre, and LGBT art. No "-related" anywhere there. Another option would be to rename everything to the form of 'X about Y", although I am not sure if "about LGBT" sounds best (ex. "Music about LGBT"?). For now, removing "-related" from that tree might be easiest in terms of standardization. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment, I guess it is called "-related" because it also contains LGBT musicians and LGBT musical groups subcategories with artists who do not all create LGBT content. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:41, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: I would note that the category is named the way it is because CFD previously renamed it from the proposed new name to the existing one on the grounds that the music itself doesn't have its own innate sexual orientation, but is merely contextually related to the sexual orientations of people. I would further note things like Category:LGBT-related films, Category:LGBT-related television shows and Category:LGBT-related books, which are also categorized as "LGBT-related", and not just as "LGBT", for the same reason, which means there's a mixture of "LGBT" vs. "LGBT-related" among its siblings rather than this being a one-off outlier. It's a complicated question, for sure, but the reason it's named this way is because of a prior CFD discussion on it, so it's not nearly as clearcut as the nominator makes it out to be. Bearcat (talk) 15:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 17:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Songs against capitalism[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Songs against capitalism to Category:Songs about capitalism
- Nominator's rationale: Generally, our songs by topic categories are 'about' not 'against'. Ex. Category:Songs about poverty. This is also subcat to Category:Songs about consumerism, not Category:Songs against consumerism... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Lean to delete, it is quite a stretch to say that these songs are about capitalism. I found several that are just critical of modern society in general, some others about the labour movement. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:51, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps could be saved after pruning, if anyone can indeed show a song about capitalism. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep. I can understand why one ould argue that should be deleted because of the nebulous nature, but it is pretty clear that many of these songs have lyrics that are anti-capitalist. Velociraptor888 (talk) 23:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- No, it is not clear at all. It relies very much on subjective judgement. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 17:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Dos Santos family (Angolan business family)[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Dos Santos family (Angolan business family) to Category:Dos Santos family
- Nominator's rationale: No need for disambiguation. User:Namiba 00:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure. Many people are called (dos) Santos (surname) and there is no Dos Santos family main article. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 17:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)- No opposition to deletion or, alternatively, renaming for the family patriarch and Angolan president José Eduardo dos Santos category:José Eduardo dos Santos. Do you have a preference Marcocapelle?--User:Namiba 18:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- It would be clearest to have this as Category:Family of José Eduardo dos Santos. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- No opposition to deletion or, alternatively, renaming for the family patriarch and Angolan president José Eduardo dos Santos category:José Eduardo dos Santos. Do you have a preference Marcocapelle?--User:Namiba 18:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Recipients of the Padma Shri in literature & education[edit]
- Convert Category:Recipients of the Padma Shri in literature & education to article List of Recipients of the Padma Shri in literature and education
- Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEF. Should probably be listified. PepperBeast (talk) 19:51, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Lists already exist, starting with List of Padma Shri award recipients (1954–1959). Marcocapelle (talk) 20:10, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep as this awards are defining characteristic of recipients and they are frequently labelled as Padma Awardee in references. Another reason is lists of Padma awardees are not by their fields but by year. Each list contains all awardee of all field in a year. So field-wise categories help to find awardees in perticular field too like above literature and education.-Nizil (talk) 11:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:51, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 17:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Burials in Quito[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: delete, we normally categorize burials only by place of burial e.g. by cemetery, not by geographic places. A geographic place is either where the person lived, in that case they should just be in a "Peoples from" category. Or else it is a random place, e.g. the place of the hospital where they died, which is not defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Atari 8-bit family games[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Atari 8-bit family games to Category:Atari 8-bit computer games
- Nominator's rationale: Article has recently gone through a name change to Atari 8-bit computers. This category should reflect that. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename Keep in sync with parent article. "Atari 8-bit computer" is more historically accurate than "Atari 8-bit family". Dgpop (talk) 17:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Screwball pitchers[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: In baseball, unlike knuckleball pitchers who are utterly unique and stand apart from all other pitchers, its actually hard to tell screwball pitchers apart from someone throwing a circle changeup so people who never threw one are in here. And while throwing a real screwball is uncommon, they aren't so rare as to warrant a category of their own - certainly not as rare as knuckleball pitchers. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Unlike knuckleball pitchers, throwing a screwball is not a defining characteristic. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment As category creator, no objection to this discussion. It was a BOLD idea on a whim. --Jprg1966 (talk) 03:14, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:MIT Engineers seasons[edit]
- Propose merging Category:MIT Engineers seasons to Category:MIT Engineers
- Nominator's rationale: Only one subcategory. Let'srun (talk) 11:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just delete, the subcategory still remains part of Category:MIT Engineers ice hockey. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Feminist historians[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Feminist historians to Category:Women's historians
- Nominator's rationale: merge to clarify that this is about women's history rather than a category of historians who happen to support feminism. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Wouldn't this one be more specific to Historians of feminism? Mason (talk) 22:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would be perfectly ok with creating a subCategory:Historians of feminism. Just renaming the nominated category to Category:Historians of feminism is currently not possible however because not all entries of this category would belong there. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Wouldn't this one be more specific to Historians of feminism? Mason (talk) 22:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I don't think these are the same scope. I'm leaning Keep. NLeeuw (talk) 10:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 00:03, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 04:45, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Flemish sinologists[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Flemish sinologists to Category:Flemish orientalists
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defning intersection between ethnicity (flemish) and subspecialization. Single merge because the only person in the category is already in the French sinologists category. Mason (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:44, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Algerian Berber feminists[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Algerian Berber feminists to Category:Berber feminists and Category:Algerian feminists and Category:Berber Algerians
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between ethnicity, political orientation, and nationality. If not merged, rename to Berber Algerian feminists. to match parent Berber Algerians Mason (talk) 03:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Czech-Polish translators[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Mason (talk) 02:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Propose splitting Category:Czech-Polish translators to Category:Czech translators and Category:Polish translators
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection, we don't categorize by the two languages translators know. We categorize by their nationality Mason (talk) 01:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Russian meat dishes[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer. Upmerge Russian chicken dishes to Russian cuisine. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
April 22[edit]
Category:Canadian women translators[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Canadian women translators to Category:Canadian translators and Category:Canadian women writers
- Propose merging Category:Canadian male translators to Category:Canadian translators and Category:Canadian male writers
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between occupation and gender. I don't see translation having a gendered component. This is a related follow-up to [1]Mason (talk) 23:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. As I stated in the prior discussion, I wasn't too attached to the need for subbing translators by gender — the only other country that has any siblings is India, and even then only for women — but the issues around these were different enough from the issues around the other batch (which hinged on whether subbing Canadian translators out by province of residence was necessary or not) that it didn't make sense to bundle these in with that. But they're still not necessary. Bearcat (talk) 18:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:People with major depressive disorder[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Although "People with major depressive disorder" was deleted before disability was added to WP:EGRS, I'm nominating because the old discussion still applies. I don't think that this category is defining for any of the three people in the category. If not deleted, it should be merged to Category:People with mood disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_11#Category:People_diagnosed_with_clinical_depression Mason (talk) 23:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Smasongarrison: can you provide a link to the old discussion? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_11#Category:People_diagnosed_with_clinical_depression. MDD is the new name for the same condition. I don't have a link for fictional characters. Mason (talk) 04:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete/Merge I don't think it makes sense for us to categorize based on if people meet the DSM/ICD-criteria for a disorder (which is exactly what this wording would suggest). Both of "with depression" and "with mood disorders" are more vague and therefore better in this regard. Draken Bowser (talk) 07:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- At least delete the fictional subcategory, this contains characters who are colloquially depressed, not characters who have a MDD diagnosis. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Bridges completed in 1179[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Previously nominated at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 6#Category:Bridges completed in 1192, but not tagged. Merge with no prejudice against recreation if the category can be appropriately populated. HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 23:05, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Congenital amputees[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between specific disability and source of the disability. Mason (talk) 23:01, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- My understanding of the categorization rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization) is that categories that are relevant are based on what criteria are considered defining. I believe that congenital amputee status is considered a meaningful category in the emic (i.e., members) of the limb difference community. E.g., https://www.amputee-coalition.org/resources/amputations-in-childhood/ . This reflects the fact that the lived experience of those with congenital vs acquired amputations is often quite different (e.g., variation in phantom limb experience, the need to actively learn how to function without a limb from birth vs learning as an adult, the use of prosthetics vs not [prosthetics are less frequently used by those with congenital limb differences]). I am aware of this through my extensive involvement with the limb difference community. It can also be observed by a read of the discussions of amputees and those with limb differences (e.g., one of many examples here: https://www.reddit.com/r/amputee/comments/zl8rdk/looking_for_insight_into_child_amputee/).
- Note also that there is a Wikipedia page for congenital amputees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_amputation) which per categorization rules is an important signal that a category is defining. Calculatedfire (talk) 23:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also meant to add- there is a precedence set for amputee categories based on the current categories presented (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Amputees). Certainly congenital amputees is just as or probably notably recognized as per current Wikipedia guidelines (e.g., having its own Wikipedia page) than other categories (e.g., there is no page German amputees; "Works about Amputees" is certainly not a defining characteristic of much of the included media. This is not to say that these other categories should be removed, but rather, to show that congenital meets the required threshold of defining. Calculatedfire (talk) 23:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I think you'll be able to make a more compelling case if you review WP:EGRS/D which gives clearer rules for intersections with disability and other characteristics (gender, race, sexuality etc). Could you show me where having a wikipedia page about a condition means that "per categorization rules is an important signal that a category is defining"? Because I don't think that is sufficient to have a wikipedia page to ensure that it could be a category. Mason (talk) 03:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Lean to oppose, I may be mistaken but at first glance I don't think there is a trivial intersection at stake. Congenital amputation is being born without a limb, which is a "thing" in itself. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- But is it defining for individuals? I'm open to having my mind changed, but I don't think people tend to have the lead of the article stating that they are a congenital amputee. If anything, the leads will be about amputees who acquired their disability through a headline grabbing fashion. Now, I'm well aware that there is literature on differences between acquired and congenital disabilities, and that has implications for interventions as well as well-being.
- However, I still don't think that "reliable sources [...] regularly describe the person as having th[e] characteristic". Fuller quote from Wikipedia:EGRS/D
- >"People with disabilities, intersex conditions, and other medical or psychological states or conditions, should not be added to subcategories of Category:People with disabilities, Category:Intersex people or Category:People by medical or psychological condition unless that condition is considered WP:DEFINING for that individual. For example, there may be people who have amnesia, but if reliable sources don't regularly describe the person as having that characteristic, they should not be added to the category."
- Mason (talk) 03:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Child amputees[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Child amputees to Category:Amputees
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between kind of disability and age. Mason (talk) 22:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- My response here is roughly the same as my response to congenital--
- My understanding of the categorization rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization) is that categories that are relevant are based on what criteria are considered defining. I believe that child amputee status (this is a person who has an amputation that occurs AFTER they are born but before they are an adult) is considered a meaningful category in the emic (i.e., members) of the limb difference community. E.g., https://www.oandplibrary.org/alp/chap31-01.asp, https://www.waramps.ca/ways-we-help/child-amputees/, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0030589820321490, https://www.independentliving.org/donet/51_international_child_amputee_network.html
- This reflects the fact that the lived experience of those with child (as compared to adult amputation or congenital amputation) is often quite different (e.g., variation in phantom limb experience, the need to actively learn how to function without a limb from birth vs learning as an adult, the use of prosthetics vs not [prosthetics are less frequently used by those with congenital limb differences]). I am aware of this through my extensive involvement with the limb difference community. It can also be observed by a read of the discussions of amputees and those with limb differences (e.g., one of many examples here: https://www.reddit.com/r/amputee/comments/12nfcrl/adults_who_had_their_amputations_as_very_young/, https://www.reddit.com/r/amputee/comments/15j1kp2/looking_for_support_child_lost_a_finger/).
- There is a precedence set for amputee categories based on the current categories presented (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Amputees). Certainly child amputees is just as or probably notably recognized as per current Wikipedia guidelines (e.g., coming up in the introduction) than other categories (e.g., there is no page German amputees; "Works about Amputees" is certainly not a defining characteristic of much of the included media. This is not to say that these other categories should be removed, but rather, to show that child meets the required threshold of defining.
- Another criteria for defining category is that it is in the lead to an article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Defining). This is the case with many entries in this category, reflecting the fact that many members of this category are on Wikipedia because of their advocacy or involvement in activities related to their childhood amputation. Some examples:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihaela_Lulea
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanne_O%27Riordan
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Mullins
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisako_Nakamura
- Etc.
- I want to emphasize here the importance of not collapsing child and congenital into one category because of, again, the relevant community's differentiation in these two groups' experiences, as well as how medical research has coalesced on these differences (you will notice that child amputees are not included in the congenital amputee page, for instance). Note this follows Wikipedia's criteria of categorization in so far as categories should be as specific as possible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization_dos_and_don%27ts Calculatedfire (talk) 23:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I understand that you have experiences with this community, however, we don't typically have categories that distinguish people by what stage of development they were disabled. I am extremely sympathetic, but the examples you give are people who are defined by the intersection of their activism while having a disability, not that they were amputees during their childhood. Please review other categories for children. Mason (talk) 03:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Manually merge, trivial intersection between type and starting age of disablement. People will need to get used to missing a limb irrespective of their age. Most articles are already in a Category:Amputees by nationality subcat so a plain merge will lead to a lot of duplication. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Fictional characters by political orientation[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: split, this category is confusing in its current implementation, it contains fictional anarchists, monarchists, nationalists and socialists on the one hand (by political orientation, not activists) and environmentalists, advocates of women's rights and pacifists on the other hand (activists, not political orientation). These are very different things. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, I don't think this is necessary. And are you really sure that environmentalism and feminism not specific political ideologies/movements? AHI-3000 (talk) 21:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- They are primarily social movements and certainly not a political orientation like socialism. In relationship to politics they have only one issue on their agenda and their target audience is the entire political spectrum, not one ideology. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Well if you take a look at Category:People by political orientation, Category:Feminists and Category:Pacifists are listed as subcategories. Anyways it's still not necessary to split up these categories in any way, they're not even too large. AHI-3000 (talk) 17:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- It isn't a matter of size, it is a matter of plain wrong. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Well if you take a look at Category:People by political orientation, Category:Feminists and Category:Pacifists are listed as subcategories. Anyways it's still not necessary to split up these categories in any way, they're not even too large. AHI-3000 (talk) 17:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- They are primarily social movements and certainly not a political orientation like socialism. In relationship to politics they have only one issue on their agenda and their target audience is the entire political spectrum, not one ideology. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, I don't think this is necessary. And are you really sure that environmentalism and feminism not specific political ideologies/movements? AHI-3000 (talk) 21:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 16:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 22:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Canadian criminal lawyers[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Canadian criminal lawyers to Category:Canadian lawyers
- Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between occupation, type of law, and nationality. We don't even have a parent category for Category:Criminal lawyers. Mason (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, do not merge because the article is already in Category:20th-century Canadian lawyers. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any thoughts?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 22:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete there is no parent category for Category:Criminal lawyers.--User:Namiba 18:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Non-binary lesbians[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Non-binary lesbians to Category:Non-binary gay people
- Nominator's rationale: I don't really know what to do with this category (and the merge target). I think it needs a merge and rename. I think that these are supposed to be about non-binary people who identity as lesbian or gay. Mason (talk) 21:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the non-binary lesbians category name/title is very objective, right? It's in common use in the non-binary community. The Category:Non-binary gay people was named Category:Non-binary gay men (its naming was discussed at WT:GAY#Non-binary gay category). All biographies in these category were already in the Category:Lesbians and Category:People with non-binary gender identities, with help of WP:PetScan I populated these categories. --MikutoH talk! 23:30, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that these intersections meets the EGRS criteria for defining. The lesbian name may be objective, but I don't think it works in tandem with Non-binary gay people. I found the lesbian category nested within the gay category, which made the entire nested structure more confusing. Can you point to some literature on Non-binary gay people, because I haven't been able to find any? (Also the thread you linked to voices concerns about the category, including its creation being disruptive; so the thread isn't that clear cut.)Mason (talk) 00:34, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- In this case, I would support a keep as well, provided that each category is defined enough so they can effectively be used. As such, I reject this nomination / merger. Historyday01 (talk) 01:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep the non-binary lesbians category name/title is very objective, right? It's in common use in the non-binary community. The Category:Non-binary gay people was named Category:Non-binary gay men (its naming was discussed at WT:GAY#Non-binary gay category). All biographies in these category were already in the Category:Lesbians and Category:People with non-binary gender identities, with help of WP:PetScan I populated these categories. --MikutoH talk! 23:30, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete both as trivial intersections. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete both per above. Brandmeistertalk 17:31, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep / Do not merge Category:Non-binary lesbians, I'm unsure on the gay people cat but I think non-binary lesbians is a relevant category to have and is not trivial. AlexandraAVX (talk) 08:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep A simple Google search yields plenty of results for non-binary lesbians. It's clearly a common and defining identity. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 10:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete sure, these identities exist & are in use, but I don't see evidence they are defining for indiduvals. (t · c) buidhe 00:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Our sexual orientation categories covering same-sex attraction are fully diffused by gender (Category:Gay men, Category:Lesbians, and Category:Non-binary gay people). Getting rid of Category:Non-binary gay people would make it impossible for a nb person who does not identify as either a gay man or a lesbian be categorized as gay (in the broad, gender-neutral sense).--Trystan (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 22:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)- Oppose per above. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Neo-Latin writers[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Neo-Latin writers to Category:Writers in Neo-Latin
- Propose renaming Category:Latin-language writers of late antiquity to Category:Writers of late antiquity in Latin
- Propose renaming Category:Classical Latin-language writers to Category:Writers in Classical Latin
- Propose renaming Category:Old Latin-language writers to Category:Writers in Old Latin
- Propose renaming Category:Renaissance Latin-language writers to Category:Renaissance writers in Latin
- Propose renaming Category:Medieval Latin-language writers to Category:Medieval writers in Latin
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C: Per all child cats and per parent Category:Writers in Latin by period.
Copy of speedy discussion
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- The 5 speedy nominees were opposed by Jim Killock, see Copy of speedy discussion above. NLeeuw (talk) 06:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I do not follow the objection. If this is about style then the categories should be named Category:Writers in foo-style Latin and the larger part of the proposal follows that format. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Category:Writers of late antiquity in Latin" is extremely clunky; I have no opinion about the rest. Furius (talk) 20:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- True, for consistency this should become
Category:Writers in late antique LatinCategory:Writers in Late Latin. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)- So these are the style names: Old Latin; Classical Latin; Late Latin; Medieval Latin; Renaissance Latin; Neo-Latin.
- We have instead Category:Writers of late antiquity in Latin; Category:Renaissance writers in Latin; Category:Medieval writers in Latin. These remove or obscure the "styles" and make them in effect "period".
- The grammar objection is this. I write in Noun-Neo-Latin. I am a adjective-Neo-Latin noun-writer. I am not in Neo-Latin. Thus a writer is not "in" Neo-Latin. Thus writers cannot be "in" Neo-Latin. At least; it's not great English. I can imagine someone saying "A list of writers in English"; yet this isn't really correct, it should be a "A list of English writers", for the same reason (English here is an adjective, not a noun) (or "A list of writers writing in English", so that English can be used as a noun). see wiktionary:en:Latin#English regarding the noun and adjectival uses of Latin. Jim Killock (talk) 06:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note that Category:Latin-language writers of late antiquity is a child of Category:Writers of late antiquity. "late antiquity" refers to the time they lived in, not (directly) what kind of Latin they wrote in. Alt renaming to something like Writers in late antique Latin would change the scope.
- I must say I find the category fairly dubious to begin with: it has only 6 articles (which could easily be diffused to "by century" categories), and the rest are just Xth-century writers in Latin from the 3rd to the 8th, all of which are already children of Category:Writers in Latin by century. The added value of such arbitrary duplication eludes me. "Late antiquity" isn't a very commonly used term anyway; the conventional timeframes are "Antiquity" and "Middle Ages". If we can't agree on how to properly phrase the catname, maybe we should just delete or upmerge it instead.
- it should be a "A list of English writers" This is the kind of convention we have been phasing out for years, because adjectives such as "English" (or "Latin", for that matter) are ambiguous due to their multiple meanings (language, country, nationality, ethnicity, geography/location, "style" (e.g. English landscape garden, which you could surprisingly create anywhere on Earth outside England as well)), which almost inevitably leads to confusion and miscategorisation. "Latin-language writers of late antiquity" is hardly a prettier phrase than "writers in Latin", which at least makes clear that the writers wrote in Latin, and that they were not ethnically speaking one of the Latins, or from the Latin League, or from Latin America, or a songwriter of Latin music songs etc. etc. NLeeuw (talk) 16:09, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree the categorisation is not done correctly overall. They conflate period and style. The category names are mostly unambiguiously about style. The socially predominate categorisation of Latin is by style, so that is what people will expect.
- I also agree with the principle of removing ambiguous phrases, I just don't agree with naming things with incorrect grammar. Writers are not in a noun-Language. People do something in a language; books and poems are written in a language. A different formulation is needed for "writers" to use the adjectival form avoiding "in". Jim Killock (talk) 16:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- What about Category:Books in Latin? Is that also grammatically incorrect? If not, why not?
- I see both catnames as merely an abbreviation of a longer phrase.
- Books in Latin = Books that were written in Latin
- Writers in Latin = Writers who wrote in Latin
- Makes sense to me. (Also per WP:CONCISE, or whatever the category equivalent of that is). NLeeuw (talk) 15:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- True, for consistency this should become
- "Category:Writers of late antiquity in Latin" is extremely clunky; I have no opinion about the rest. Furius (talk) 20:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is always possible to read things differently than intended. "Neo-Latin writers" could be read, hypothetically, as writers who are Neo-Latin themselves. Likewise, reading "writers in Neo-Latin" as if the writers are in something themselves is equally bizarre. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 22:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Electronic rock musicians[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Individual musicians and groups are not the same. Either populate this with articles of individual people or delete it as an innapropriate redirect without another good target. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 01:34, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 22:21, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Delete with no objection to recreation should there be content to populate it with. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 18:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:794 short stories[edit]
- Propose merging Category:794 short stories to Category:794 works
- Nominator's rationale: Category newly created to hold just one thing, with virtually no potential for growth. "YYYY short stories" categories do not otherwise exist for any year prior to the 17th century -- it's a literary form that largely didn't exist to any significant degree much earlier than the 1600s, or at the very least has seen almost no works published much earlier than the 1600s survive for us to know about, with the result that categories in the Category:Short stories by year tree don't otherwise exist for any year earlier than 1613, over 800 years later than this.
Accordingly, this doesn't need to exist for just one story, but it's never going to contain more, so Category:794 works is more than sufficient. Bearcat (talk) 22:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC)- Can you provide the specific Wikipedia policies which would justify such a deletion? Otherwise the stated reasons are not policy based; they are just your own personal feelings, which apparently consist of imposing arbitrary chronological lines-in-the-sand. I'd also like to express my disagreement with the claim that
almost no works published much earlier than the 1600s survive for us to know about
, and point out the Eurocentricity of the claim thatit's a literary form that largely didn't exist to any significant degree much earlier than the 1600s
. Wikipedia categories are not and cannot be comprehensive. There are plenty of other Classical Chinese short stories (Chuanqi) from within a few centuries on either side of the year 794 that simply have not been categorized yet, or which lack Wikipedia pages altogether. And that's just one set of examples. Brusquedandelion (talk) 22:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)- The reader is not served by chopping everything up into one-entry microcategories. The basis for the existence of this category is not that one thing exists to file in it, and would require at least five things in it — the point of categories is to help readers navigate between related articles, so a category isn't needed if there's nothing else in it to navigate to. Bearcat (talk) 13:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Can you provide the specific Wikipedia policies which would justify such a deletion? Otherwise the stated reasons are not policy based; they are just your own personal feelings, which apparently consist of imposing arbitrary chronological lines-in-the-sand. I'd also like to express my disagreement with the claim that
- Merge, this is not helpful for navigation between related articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge, but I suggest also creating Category:1st-millennium short stories including e.g. Parables of Jesus and Parables in the Quran. Category:1st-millennium literature could also hold a new Category:1st-millennium Chinese literature with subcats from Category:Literature by Imperial Chinese dynasty. – Fayenatic London 09:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Turkish Cypriot people[edit]
- Propose splitting Category:Turkish Cypriot people to Category:Turkish Cypriots and Category:People from Northern Cyprus
- Nominator's rationale: This mixes up Cypriots who are (Cypriot-)Turkish by ethnicity (but do not necessarily live in Northern Cyprus or have an NC passport), and people who are born in or residing in the territory of limited-recognised Northern Cyprus. We might even have to split it in three ways, for people who have a Northern Cyprus "nationality" / passport. Whatever we decide, the current category (tree) is mixing up ethnicity, residence and nationality; we should unweave them somehow. NLeeuw (talk) 21:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Split, people living in Northern Cyprus aren't necessarily Turkish Cypriots and vice versa. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
17th and 18th century in the Mughal Empire[edit]
- Propose merging Category:1610 establishments in the Mughal Empire to Category:1610s establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1610 establishments in India
- Propose merging Category:1613 establishments in the Mughal Empire to Category:1610s establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1613 establishments in India
- Propose merging Category:1619 establishments in the Mughal Empire to Category:1610s establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1619 establishments in Asia and Category:1610s establishments in India
- Propose merging Category:1626 establishments in the Mughal Empire to Category:1620s establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1626 establishments in India
- Propose merging Category:1632 establishments in the Mughal Empire to Category:1630s establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1632 establishments in India
- Nominator's rationale: merge, mostly single-item categories, this is not helpful for navigation. Most content is categorized at decade level and that seems to suffice. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)- I'll note Category:1754 establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1748 establishments in the Mughal Empire are untagged, and I don't have time to tag them right now. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Done. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'll note Category:1754 establishments in the Mughal Empire and Category:1748 establishments in the Mughal Empire are untagged, and I don't have time to tag them right now. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:First Nations drawing artists[edit]
- Propose deleting Category:First Nations drawing artists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose merging Category:Inuit drawing artists to Category:Inuit artists
- Propose merging Category:Native American drawing artists to Category:Native American artists
- Nominator's rationale: There is no "drawing artists" category. Mason (talk) 15:20, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Would these categories be acceptable if there was a larger "drawing artists" category? We already have Category:Cartoonists, Category:Draughtsmen, and Category:Illustrators, plus artists in Category:Ballpoint pen art, and we don't yet have a category for artists who use charcoal, so there would be plenty to fill a larger umbrella category. ForsythiaJo (talk) 15:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- There is Ledger art but I am not sure if the articles would fit that. In fact most articles just say "artist", so the merge seems reasonable. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose merge. There are not good terms for fine artists who prominently draw (pen and ink, pencil, pastels, etc.). Illustrators, draftsmen, and graphic artists are sometimes used, but the phenomenon of Native American, First Nations, and especially Inuit artists who predominantly draw is well established. Yuchitown (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Studies of right-wing politics[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The contents are mainly biographies, with one podcast. I have added this new category into Category:Political science but don't think this is a helpful addition to the hierarchy. – Fayenatic London 11:44, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, the articles are mostly in the tree of Political scientists anyway and I don't think you can split political scientists neatly on the basis of whether they study right or left wing politics. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:04, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- So my rationale with this is that the study of right-wing politics actually is an explicit focus for some scholars, historians, and journalists. I can clarify the description of the category to ensure it is only meant to include those researchers who state that they study right-wing politics.
- Here are some examples:
- Bluetik (talk) 06:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also, I'm not sure if this matters, but it seems to be primarily sociologists, historians, and journalists, rather than career political scientists. Bluetik (talk) 06:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hmmm would it be appropriate to Rename this to Category:Researchers of right-wing politics? Because that makes more sense than "studies". NLeeuw (talk) 07:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also, I'm not sure if this matters, but it seems to be primarily sociologists, historians, and journalists, rather than career political scientists. Bluetik (talk) 06:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- If not deleted, it should certainly be renamed. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- totally fine with @NLeeuw’s suggestion of renaming to Category:Researchers of right-wing politics
- Should I follow the WP:C2E process?
- ~new here, I can check the process tmo if it’s something else Bluetik (talk) 08:01, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Bluetik: C2E doesn't apply once we have started a discussion on whether the category should exist.
- Within Category:Political scientists by field of study there is already Category:Academics and writers on far-right extremism. Does the new category have a wider scope than that, i.e. not only about far-right? – Fayenatic London 15:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Fayenatic london
- so the category I created is broader in two senses:
- it includes people who are neither academics nor writers, eg: Know Your Enemy is a podcast, and Ernie Lazar is an important researcher, but wasn’t known for his writing.
- then also, yes, correct it’s additionally broader in that it would include right-wing and far-right (eg MMFA which spends time watching Fox News, Rick Perlstein writes a lot about the National Review).
- I’d love to learn how to merge (guessing under WP:Overlap), but still new here, so happy to leave it to a more experienced editor, or wait for consensus from more repliers Bluetik (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note that the category content is mainly about American conservatism, so if not deleted that may be included in the rename as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe merge to Category:Right-wing politics in the United States as that's the common link. – Fayenatic London 14:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:45, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merging to Category:Right-wing politics in the United States makes sense considering the content of the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Scholars of Greek language[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Scholars of Greek language to Category:Linguists of Greek
- Propose renaming Category:Scholars of Mycenaean Greek to Category:Linguists of Mycenaean Greek
- Propose renaming Category:Scholars of Medieval Greek to Category:Linguists of Medieval Greek
- Propose renaming Category:Scholars of Koine Greek to Category:Linguists of Koine Greek
- Propose renaming Category:Scholars of Ancient Greek to Category:Linguists of Ancient Greek
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C. Uncles/aunts in Category:Linguists by language of study are all named
Linguists of Fooian
.
Copy of speedy discussion
|
---|
|
- Purge and rename, there are some non-linguists e.g. Byzantinists and New Testament scholars in these categories, but that does not match with the clearly linguistic purpose of these categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. These categories have a different scope than those for linguists, and that scope is indicated by the title. If you change both the title and scope of the categories, you are essentially creating different categories, and doing so would eliminate valid categories that exist for a logical purpose. It would be better to create new categories under the proposed names, limiting inclusion to those entries that are actually linguists, than to convert existing categories into something that they were never intended to be, changing both the names and criteria for inclusion. The proposed change strikes me as saying, "this fire engine is red. It should be green. Also, it should be a pickup truck." I'm not great with analogies. P Aculeius (talk) 13:18, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- What is, in your view, the difference between a scholar of language A and a linguist of language A? NLeeuw (talk) 09:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Linguist" is typically used to mean one of two things in English: 1. An interpreter or translator; 2. Someone studying the technical aspects of language using the 'science' of linguistics—a fairly specific and limited field compared with all scholarship involving a language. At one time, the term was used more broadly, perhaps the source of confusion here. But presumably many scholars of Greek are neither linguists in the technical sense nor interpreters in the common sense. The proposal would narrow the scope of the category by excluding all scholars of a language who are not linguists. There seems to be value in being able to categorize scholars of a language irrespective of whether they are linguists, and likewise a category limited to linguists would be useful. The two categories would overlap, but the scholars category would be much broader. They should probably both exist, rather than one replacing the other. P Aculeius (talk) 22:06, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: just to clarify one thing my previous comment may not have done very well. A linguist, in the technical sense (as opposed to a translator) is a scholar of the technical aspects of language; i.e. (as our article on linguistics suggests) syntax, morphology, semantics, phonetics. Broader scholarship of a language might not focus on any of these aspects, but instead upon the literature and historic uses of a language, its distribution within a community, the social or cultural relationships between speakers of different dialects, or other languages—whether or not related, and other questions that are peripheral to modern linguistics as a science, or even "historical linguistics". Naturally there should be some overlap, especially as the fields and topics are not always sharply defined. But there are many scholars of language who, though notable in their fields, would not generally be considered linguists. Perhaps "linguists of Fooian" might be seen as a subcategory within the broader category, "scholars of Fooian". P Aculeius (talk) 13:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- What is, in your view, the difference between a scholar of language A and a linguist of language A? NLeeuw (talk) 09:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Update Sibling Category:Grammarians of Arabic has just been Renamed Category:Linguists of Arabic, and sibling Category:Grammarians of Persian has just been Merged into Category:Linguists of Persian. Worth taking into account. NLeeuw (talk) 02:30, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure that has much bearing on scholars → linguists, since grammar is one of the technical aspects of language that might be included under the heading of "linguistics". However, I note that "grammarians" is a historic term, at least in classical languages, while "linguists" is a modern one, and would seem anachronistic applied to ancient Greek or Roman grammarians (who studied, taught, and wrote on a broader selection of topics than what we usually describe as "grammar" today). I'm not sure whether this would also apply to Arabic or Persian, although certainly ancient or medieval grammarians of these languages would probably not be described as "linguists" in literature on the subject. Modern grammarians of these languages could probably be called "linguists", since their scholarly focus would be narrower, and within the realm of modern linguistics. P Aculeius (talk) 20:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)- The convention that was established a few years ago was that the "grammarians" categories could be kept for ancient languages. In this case, too, Category:Grammarians of Ancient Greek (which contains ancient people who spoke and wrote in ancient Greek and were important in shaping its grammar, if I understand correctly) will stay a subcategory of Category:Scholars of Ancient Greek, even if it is renamed Category:Linguists of Ancient Greek as proposed. When we say "linguists of Ancient Greek", we are indeed referring to (usually) modern scholars who study the Ancient Greek language in hindsight, rather than people living at the time who shaped it when it flourished in its ancient form. Perhaps @Fayenatic london or @Marcocapelle could explain further? NLeeuw (talk) 03:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- @P Aculeius and Nederlandse Leeuw: Category:Humanities academics has subcategories Category:Linguists and Category:Literary scholars. I suppose we can make the same distinction here. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Are all (or nearly all) of the members of these categories necessarily going to fit distinctly into one or the other of these groups, or in some cases belong to both of them? If so, then perhaps this suggests a solution. But if there are members who don't distinctly fit into either group, then the answer is probably to create the linguists category and populate it with a subgroup of scholars, without altering the existing categories. P Aculeius (talk) 13:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Indian Paintbrush (company) films[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Indian Paintbrush (company) films to Category:Indian Paintbrush films
- Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary disambiguation; extremely unlikely to be confused with the flower called the Indian paintbrush (Castilleja). ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: See request to reopen and relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 21:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- support unnecessary disambiguation. - Altenmann >talk 22:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose, first the article should be renamed, then the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- The nomination claims specifically that "Indian Paintbrush films" is unlikely to be confused with the flower, not that the company is the primary topic for Indian Paintbrush. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Convention is that categories follow disambiguation as used in article space (sometimes category names even contain disambiguation when the primary topic article doesn't). Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hence you're substantively opposing this nomination that tries to break from that convention, right? * Pppery * it has begun... 01:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Convention is that categories follow disambiguation as used in article space (sometimes category names even contain disambiguation when the primary topic article doesn't). Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- The nomination claims specifically that "Indian Paintbrush films" is unlikely to be confused with the flower, not that the company is the primary topic for Indian Paintbrush. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:20, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Intersex lesbians[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Since its siblings (Category:Non-binary lesbians and Category:Intersex gay men) were nominated for discussion, I bring it here for consensus. Merge or keep? --MikutoH talk! 22:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- This discussion should be closed in line with Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_7#Category:Intersex_transgender_people, the other intersex discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:32, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Third-person view[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Third-person view to Category:Third-person video games
- Nominator's rationale: I've created this one few minutes ago, but maybe the name should be analogous to Category:First-person video games? Consider the existence of Category:First-person shooters and Category:Third-person shooters, with only the first having a parent category outside shooter games (until my creation). Both have main articles. However, third-person view has a redirect to an article section, while first-person view goes to a disambig, sigh. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Piotrus: what other content are you planning to add to this category? That will provide the answer to the question. If topic articles are going to be added then "view" seems the right name. If only video games are going to be added then "video games" is the obvious right name. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:16th-century Chilean people by occupation[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here, which isn't helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 04:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:People with non-binary gender identities[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:People with non-binary gender identities to Category:Non-binary people
- Nominator's rationale: To be more objective. The current title became unnecessary since every non-binary biography is diffused into subcategories. I can understand that not every person with a non-binary gender identity self-identifies as non-binary personally, and that the list uses this phrase in the title, but we name Category:Non-binary writers, not Category:Writers with non-binary gender identities. And the names would be too big. --MikutoH talk! 01:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support as nominated. Raladic (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nomination. Funcrunch (talk) 02:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nomination. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 01:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Egypt–Gaza border[edit]
- Propose renaming : Category:Egypt–Gaza border to Category:Egypt–Gaza Strip border
- Nominators rational: More specific and similar. See Category:Israel–Gaza Strip border and Category:Egypt–Gaza Strip border crossings — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cactinites (talk • contribs)
- Rename per WP:C2C. This could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:32, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
April 21[edit]
Category:Combined authority mayoralties[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The Category:Combined authorities was renamed Category:Combined authorities and combined county authorities, to reflect the renaming of the article page to Combined authorities and combined county authorities. This proposal seeks to mirror this in relation to CA and CCA mayoralties. UnicornSherbert (talk) 21:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename, for consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Remote viewing[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. This is a fringe subject with only three articles and one subcat, which has a tendentious name (there are no "remote viewers", remote viewing is nonsense). Creator is permabanned and globally locked. Guy (help! - typo?) 21:32, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- If not deleted, it may be renamed to Category:Stargate Project, that is what the category and subcategory are primarily about. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Rajputana Agency[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Rajputana Agency to Category:States under the Rajputana Agency
- Propose renaming Category:Kathiawar Agency to Category:States under the Kathiawar Agency
- Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content of the category (and purge the main article which still can be kept in the header). Reparent the first one under Category:Princely states of Rajasthan. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 21:14, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Languages with Linglist code[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEF. PepperBeast (talk) 14:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:21, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This is a maintenance category. It's needed to help ensure that our language articles are reliably sourced. — kwami (talk) 19:16, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- You just turned it into a maintenance category, but it is not clear that any sort of maintenance is required for articles in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep as a maintenance category, or delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 04:22, 14 April 2024 (UTC)- Comment It seems that "Linglist" is a standard parameter in Template:Infobox language that refers to an external site. E.g. Abipón language has linglist=axb.html, which apparently automatically links it to https://web.archive.org/web/20160808200116/http://multitree.org/codes/axb.html. So what seems to be going on is that there is some system which automatically links the Linglist parameter input to an archived url at multitree.org. If there is a bot actively archiving all those URLs to prevent linkrot, that seems to be maintenance, and a category could be helpful for that. But I have no expertise in this field. NLeeuw (talk) 14:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette (Let's talk together!) 21:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Wikipedians who reject a sexual preference label[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: delete, this is a variation of WP:OC/U#not-based. Note that this nomination does not imply to object to any of the userboxes. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. This isn't a OC/U#not-based; it's a category that doesn't slot into binary or otherwise pigeonholing labeling. Deleting this would also strongly suggest deleting any other u-boxes that don't equate to "gay" or "straight" (like bi, pansexual, etc.) So, what next? Are we going to erase non-binary and intergender editors as "not-based" for not agreeing to be labeled male or female? Don't people have more pressing things to attend to than trying to police other people's u-boxes, for no encyclopedically-constructive or editor-relations-and-understanding-building rationale? The actual reason we do not want truly not-based u-boxes or categories that are simply the opposites of affirmative ones is that they are seen as redundant: simply leaving the affirmative one off is taken to imply its opposite. While this is actually very poor reasoning, because it obviously fails to take into account that there is a difference between "I am the opposite of this category", "I didn't even know about this/these category/categories", and "I don't care enough about this/these category/categories to bother with them", even this faulty rationale does not apply here, because not identifying particularly as gay or straight isn't the opposite of being gay or straight, it's simply different adjacent category within the same spectrum/area. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Again, this nomination is not about the userboxes but about the category. The category does not consist of users collaborating on a specific topic area, so the userboxes are sufficient. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ah. That wasn't entirely clear to me. See below about Category:Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Again, this nomination is not about the userboxes but about the category. The category does not consist of users collaborating on a specific topic area, so the userboxes are sufficient. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:43, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I question the collaborative value of the entire Category:Wikipedians by sexuality/Category:LGBT+ Wikipedians tree, given WP:UCFD/I#Wikipedians by sexuality or gender identification, but I agree the "not-based" rationale doesn't apply and this is no different than its kindred so weak keep * Pppery * it has begun... 17:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Agree on the larger point too, it is Category:Wikipedians interested in LGBT issues that serves the proper purpose. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe, then, the categories should merge there and the templates be adjusted to use it and its subcats? — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- That would not necessarily be what users try communicating with their userbox. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Pppery, this is another branch of LGBT+. I also agree with the others that LGBT+ is being treated as a special label when other demographics do not get such treatment. The established reason for this is that LGBT+ people have profound social connectivity that many other demographics, like straight people in general, lack. Some evidence of this is many other category talks including those listed at Category talk:Gay Wikipedians, an article for the demographic at LGBT and Wikipedia, and an organization for the demographic at meta:Wikimedia LGBT+. Public evidence of this demographic getting Wikipedia related harassment is at Talk:LGBT_and_Wikipedia#No_sexual_assault_in_2023_Wikimania_toilet. Categories like this one are part of the process for finding ways to surface and report the private evidence and harassment stories against such editors. Bashing LGBT+ people is part of the politics in most countries, so this is a necessary category for peer-to-peer advocacy. Bluerasberry (talk) 15:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. Is there a reason this category refers to sexual preference instead of sexual orientation? --Trystan (talk) 18:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I can't think of a good one. It's probably just an artifact of the wording preferences of someone a long time ago. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 06:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'll note that the related discussion Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 7#Category:Wikipedians by sexuality closed as merge. Participants may also be interested in that discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:58, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- If not deleted, I agree that "preference" should be changed to "orientation" for consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or rename to substitute "orientation" for "preference". This category does not relate to a binary or non-binary gender, but rather someone's sexual orientation. An editor may be confused about their sexual orientation and it is not for Wikipedia to decide their sexual orientation for them. The merge discussion cited above would also be of no purpose because the category really would be in relation to someone unable to make their mind up whether they are a certain sexual orientation or not. UnicornSherbert (talk) 21:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Muppet performers[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Muppet performers to Category:Puppeteers
- Propose merging Category:Sesame Street Muppeteers to Category:Puppeteers
- Propose merging Category:Fraggle Rock performers to Category:Puppeteers
- Nominator's rationale: Performers by performance is textbook WP:PERFCAT. --woodensuperman 09:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, obvious application of the guideline. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep but modify, or merge into each other, as these categories are akin to Category:American film actors by studio.
- These actors are on contract with either Jim Henson Company or Disney (Muppet), Sesame Workshop (Sesame Street), or Jim Henson Company (Fraggle Rock), to perform numerous roles. Such contracts are incredibly rare, and even the most finite involvement with any of them, the puppeteer remains known as having been part of the troupe, akin to a college alumni category.
- For reference, they also each play endless characters, so it's not really by performance.
- I'd propose Category:Muppet Studios performers, Category:Sesame Workshop performers, and Category:Jim Henson Company performers. -- Zanimum (talk) 23:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, especially the Muppet category. They're distinct performances/performers, categories and brands of puppeteering. Scanlan (talk) 01:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Politicians of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Purge and rename. E.g. Abdul Rashid Dostum was a military officer, not a politician, of the DRA (1978–1992). – Fayenatic London 15:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- At least purge, possibly rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:04, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:52, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Politicians of the Korean Empire[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Either (A) purge and rename to political office-holders, removing some e.g. Syngman Rhee who was born under the Empire but IIUC not a politician until it ended; or (B) rename to Category:Politicians from the Korean Empire, because where there is no demonym we usually use "Politicians from" rather than "of" (see various siblings in Category:Politicians by former country). – Fayenatic London 15:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- At least purge, possibly rename, people who weren't a politician in the Korean Empire do not belong here. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:52, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Politicians of the Second Polish Republic[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The contents seem to be broader than political office-holders, so "from" will be more appropriate than "of". – Fayenatic London 11:45, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment, while "from" is the default, I think "of" is also a good possibility for politicians and for military personnel. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:57, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Of" is fitting for political office-holders, but we don't use it for politicians generally. I suppose we have "opposition politicians of a country" who are appointed to a formal role, but e.g. revolutionaries or independence activists would be better described as "from" the country. – Fayenatic London 22:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support for consistency and given the broader scope of the category. Mason (talk) 21:11, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Native American artists by gender[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: If there are concerns that lead to categories such as Category:American male artists (and similar articles) being treated as non-diffusing, it seems that the same rationale should apply to Native American artists. (Apologies if I've made any formatting errors. This is my first time submitting a cfd.) Katya (talk) 21:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to Category:Native American artists, per WP:OCEGRS unless there is indication that male or female Native American artists are a notable topic in themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:41, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and make non-diffusing. There seems to be solid academic interest in the intersection of gender and Native American artists, including exhibitions [5][6], academic books [7], and academic courses [8]. I looked for women artists. Also if not kept, the category should also be merged to American male artists and American women artists. Mason (talk) 21:17, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, then I modify to: Merge Category:Native American male artists to Category:Native American artists, per WP:OCEGRS unless there is indication that male Native American artists are a notable topic in themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- So, it looks like there's been discussion in the past about whether or not there should be any "male artist" categories, without any consensus. In the absence of consensus to delete them, I think we should keep the Native American male artist categories, in keeping with other paired male / female artist categories elsewhere on the site. (Or we could revisit the issue of whether "male artist" categories should exist at all, but I think that's a separate issue. Again, my original question was just whether or not the categories should be non-diffusing.) Katya (talk) 01:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, then I modify to: Merge Category:Native American male artists to Category:Native American artists, per WP:OCEGRS unless there is indication that male Native American artists are a notable topic in themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Crafts deities[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Crafts deities to Category:Craft deities
- Propose renaming Category:Crafts gods to Category:Craft gods
- Propose renaming Category:Crafts goddesses to Category:Craft goddesses
- Nominator's rationale: Just plain better English. PepperBeast (talk) 16:17, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Weak opposeI think what is meant here is wikt:craft#noun meaning #7 plural:A branch of skilled work or trade, especially one requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill, but sometimes applied equally to any business, calling or profession; the skilled practice of a practical occupation
. So it's a bit like a patron saint of a branch of handicraft professions. I worry that by making it singular, "craft" can be misunderstood for any of its many other meanings, such as "vehicle" (aircraft, spacecraft etc.; I wouldn't be surprised if some religion came up with that if Pope John Paul II in 1997 could retroactively declare Isidore of Seville the "patron saint of the internet"), or as a colloquial conjugation of the verb "to craft", "craft(ed) gods", compare "graven images", human-made "idols" of gods. But I'm not a native English speaker so I'm not sure if this is a significant risk. NLeeuw (talk) 13:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)- I kind of see your point, actually, but 'crafts' is not the solution. I'd be ok with, say, handicraft deities. PepperBeast (talk) 07:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Why is it not? I suppose it reads a lot better with 'the': "the crafts", just like "the arts", "the humanities". Some things are better in plural. Then again, "deities of the crafts" sounds a bit cumbersome. At any rate, would "handicraft deities" be correct for the contents of these categories? NLeeuw (talk) 10:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think handicraft fits pretty well, going by the articles I had a look at. Sorry, I ama native speaker, and I can't tell you why some noun modifiers can be plural and some not, but "crafts Gods" is just not normal English. Probably the same reason we don't have cars mechanics or brains surgeons :-) PepperBeast (talk) 12:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm a little worried that handicraft has connotations of a hobby or at best "artisanal" activity, distinct from mainstream manufacturing. In a pre-industrial society, activities like weaving and smithing are mainstream, the only ways clothes and metal objects are produced. Does it help that the ancient Greek word is τέχνη, techne, (the root of technical, technology and technique and by no means merely a philosophical concept as our article claims), translated as skill, craftsmanship, art, craft, technique, design and other such, rather than as handicraft? NebY (talk) 14:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point, too, but none of those suggestions strikes me as a really superior choice. A few years ago, I would have said artisan was perfect, but it seems to have gone all lumpy socks and unsliceable bread. Artificer seems too stilted. PepperBeast (talk) 14:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Pepperbeast Ah! But you do have sales managers, liberal arts professors, arms dealers... ;) But alright, I'll drop my Weak oppose. It's probably okay. NLeeuw (talk) 17:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Now I'm fretting about this very small point. "War gods" is clearly better than "wars gods"; the singular stands for the general. But Hephaestus, for example, was a smith god, not a god of all craft/handicraft, so is a member of the set of deities of various crafts.... Aargh. NebY (talk) 14:17, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I find "gods of handicrafts" in the authoritative standard text Greek Religion by Walter Burkert, translated from the German by John Raffan. I often got the impression that Burkert's phrasing was better in German than could be translated but still, it seems "handicrafts" may be the best English term a good translator could find. Reckon I should stop worrying and accept it! It's better than either "craft" or "crafts". NebY (talk) 14:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, but what are you proposing as an alt rename then? Handicraft deities or Handicrafts deities?
- And does choosing handicraft mean excluding larger-scale construction works in stoneworking/stonecraft such as bridge-building and, well, "building-building", as well as woodworking / carpentry such as shipbuilding? Because that would mean a significant narrowing of the scope, and I don't think any of us is advocating that. NLeeuw (talk) 16:50, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- We currently include deities of shipbuilding and bridgebuilding? I'm beginning to think it's too complicated for me to suggest anything. NebY (talk) 18:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Well I was just being hypothetical, but if we look at some random examples:
- Arazu a god of construction who built and restored temples.
- Coyotlinahual a god of featherwork
- Athena a goddess of handicraft
- Brigid a goddess of smithing
- Maliya a goddess associated with gardens and with artisanship, specifically with leatherworking and carpentry.
- Mama Ocllo a goddess of weaving, sewing, and household duties.
- Hedjhotep a god of fabrics and clothes and, to a lesser extent, of weaving and the deceased
- Nunura a god of pottery
- Ptah patron deity of craftsmen and architects
- Vishvakarma deity of craftsmen, architects, crafters of chariots and weapons, city-builder.
- Quetzalcoatl related to wind, Venus, Sun, merchants, arts, crafts, knowledge, and learning.
- Uttu a goddess of weaving
- Minerva a goddess of wisdom, justice, law, victory, and the sponsor of arts, trade, and strategy.
- Ninmug a goddess of artisanship, especially with metalworking, as evidenced by her epithet tibira kalamma, "metalworker of the land."
- I don't see a really clear pattern here. Some articles do not seem to mention anything to do with "the crafts" at all (like Minerva being responsible for lots of things, but not really "the crafts"), and might have to be Purged from this tree. Part of them could reasonably be called deities of handicrafts like Athena, Nunura, and Hedjhotep. Others seem to be about larger structures, buildings, cities even. Architects design buildings, not decorative small objects normally associated with "handicrafts". I guess it was my mistake thinking that "handicrafts" and "crafts" meant the same, but evidently handicrafts are a subset of the crafts. NLeeuw (talk) 20:20, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing the legwork! I am uncertain that users of English distinguish handicrafts from crafts consistently. I haven't tried a survey; serendipitously, last night I read "the development of farming techniques, building skills, craft traditions such as pottery, trade networks" (Amélie Kuhrt, The Ancient Near East). NebY (talk) 13:29, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- Well I was just being hypothetical, but if we look at some random examples:
- We currently include deities of shipbuilding and bridgebuilding? I'm beginning to think it's too complicated for me to suggest anything. NebY (talk) 18:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Pepperbeast Ah! But you do have sales managers, liberal arts professors, arms dealers... ;) But alright, I'll drop my Weak oppose. It's probably okay. NLeeuw (talk) 17:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I see your point, too, but none of those suggestions strikes me as a really superior choice. A few years ago, I would have said artisan was perfect, but it seems to have gone all lumpy socks and unsliceable bread. Artificer seems too stilted. PepperBeast (talk) 14:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm a little worried that handicraft has connotations of a hobby or at best "artisanal" activity, distinct from mainstream manufacturing. In a pre-industrial society, activities like weaving and smithing are mainstream, the only ways clothes and metal objects are produced. Does it help that the ancient Greek word is τέχνη, techne, (the root of technical, technology and technique and by no means merely a philosophical concept as our article claims), translated as skill, craftsmanship, art, craft, technique, design and other such, rather than as handicraft? NebY (talk) 14:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think handicraft fits pretty well, going by the articles I had a look at. Sorry, I ama native speaker, and I can't tell you why some noun modifiers can be plural and some not, but "crafts Gods" is just not normal English. Probably the same reason we don't have cars mechanics or brains surgeons :-) PepperBeast (talk) 12:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- Why is it not? I suppose it reads a lot better with 'the': "the crafts", just like "the arts", "the humanities". Some things are better in plural. Then again, "deities of the crafts" sounds a bit cumbersome. At any rate, would "handicraft deities" be correct for the contents of these categories? NLeeuw (talk) 10:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I kind of see your point, actually, but 'crafts' is not the solution. I'd be ok with, say, handicraft deities. PepperBeast (talk) 07:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
- I can understand NebY's reaction. Shouldn't we rather split this to handicraft on the one hand and building/construction on the other hand? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps, if the literature supports such a division. But lots of articles in this tree do not seem to mention any "crafts" at all, or I just don't properly understand the term. NLeeuw (talk) 20:22, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think such a split would make sense. We can easily conceive of a set that includes all of building, construction, weaving, smithing and pottery, and in at least one language it can easily be given a name. I fear that in English it can't and so en-wiki can't usefully have such a category. NebY (talk) 13:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, QueenofHearts 02:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any further comments on splitting?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Redirects from translations[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Redirects from translations to Category:Redirects from alternative translations
- Nominator's rationale: To match the name of the rcat template - {{R from alternative translation}} - and the parent category - Category:Redirects from alternative names. All the best, —a smart kitten[meow] 18:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Rātana politicians[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. No need to merge, the subcategory is already in the tree of the three potential targets. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:24, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Are we certain there are no Rātana people who stood but were not elected? I would prefer to keep ‘politicians’, but delete ‘MPs’. If that is not preferred, then yes, I would still delete ‘politicians’. — HTGS (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merging Category:Rātana MPs to Category:Rātana politicians is also an option. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: there seems to be a lot of confusion in this category (and in articles relating to Rātana as a political force). Some of these people are adherents of the Rātana faith who became MPs, others of them were MPs for the Rātana Party or (after affiliation with the Labour Party) MPs officially endorsed by the Rātana church. Soraya Peke-Mason, for example, is a Rātana, but not an official Rātana-endorsed MP. If that can be cleared up I'd support Marcocapelle's second suggestion (merging MPs into politicians). Grutness...wha? 14:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- That is a very interesting observation. In fact 5 out of 7 have exclusively been politicians for the Labour party. Category:Rātana MPs is better to be merged to Category:New Zealand Rātanas for that reason. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Are we certain there are no Rātana people who stood but were not elected? I would prefer to keep ‘politicians’, but delete ‘MPs’. If that is not preferred, then yes, I would still delete ‘politicians’. — HTGS (talk) 00:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have tagged Category:Rātana MPs too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:20th-century Latgalian ceramists[edit]
- Propose splitting Category:20th-century Latgalian ceramists to Category:20th-century Latvian ceramists and Category:Latgalian ceramists
- Nominator's rationale: Dual Upmerge. There's no need to diffuse 20th-century Latvian ceramists by region. There are only nine Latgalian ceramists in the entire tree. Mason (talk) 15:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Rātanas[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Rātanas to Category:Rātana
- Nominator's rationale: This category is more about the Rātana faith overall than adherents to the faith. As such, it should be singular rather than plural. In any case, as a Māori word, the plural would simply be Rātana. Because of this, I was also tempted to add the category Category:New Zealand Rātanas for renaming to something like Category:New Zealand Rātana adherents, but given that all other religious adherents categories simply use an -s suffixed plural, I've left that as is. Grutness...wha? 15:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Te Haahi Ratana should be merged in Rātana, following talk page discussion, and thereafter we do not need this category any longer. Rātana is already referred to in the header of the remaining Category:New Zealand Rātanas. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:53, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle: That would be true if they were the only articles in the category. That's no longer the case. There are several articles which were not in the category simply because of its confusing name. Grutness...wha? 04:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I see, then a rename would improve it. Rātana movement would probably even be clearer (and the category name following that). Marcocapelle (talk) 04:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle: That would be true if they were the only articles in the category. That's no longer the case. There are several articles which were not in the category simply because of its confusing name. Grutness...wha? 04:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename to Rātana, or second choice Rātana movement, and keep Category:New Zealand Rātanas but rename to Category:Rātana adherents or Category:Rātana people per WP:SEPARATE. — HTGS (talk) 00:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's not a bad idea, given that >95% of Rātana adherents would be New Zealanders. Grutness...wha? 03:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would prefer Category:Rātana people so that Category:Rātana politicians also clearly belongs to it. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's not a bad idea, given that >95% of Rātana adherents would be New Zealanders. Grutness...wha? 03:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Punjabi people by occupation[edit]
- Propose deleting Category:Punjabi academics
- Propose deleting Category:Punjabi artists
- Propose deleting Category:Punjabi politicians
- Propose merging Category:British politicians of Punjabi descent to Category:British people of Punjabi descent
- Propose merging Category:Singaporean politicians of Punjabi descent to Category:Singaporean people of Punjabi descent
- Propose deleting Category:Punjabi architects
- Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEGRS, trivial intersection between occupation and ethnicity. There is mostly no need to merge, the articles are already in a parallel Indian or Pakistani category if applicable. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Seems like a notable intersection [9][10]--User:Namiba 14:10, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is mainly about Indian descent, as the second link also illustrates. Hardly any of these articles is about someone of Pakistani descent, while a clear majority of Punjabi are Pakistanis. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Seems like a notable intersection [9][10]--User:Namiba 14:10, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Pro-Russian Traitors[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Violates NPOV by calling people listed in category "traitors." Peter Hitchens was listed by category creator as a member but I reverted it as a BLP violation. Thebirdlover (talk) 13:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This category has been emptied. Liz Read! Talk! 16:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 01:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:WAMPAS Baby Stars[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The article about this category states this was a promotional campaign, not an award. As such, it seems non-defining. User:Namiba 13:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
"(Artworks/Art) depicting (subject)"[edit]
- Paintings
-
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Abraham to Category:Paintings of Abraham
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Adam and Eve to Category:Paintings of Adam and Eve
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Agatha of Sicily to Category:Paintings of Agatha of Sicily
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Andrew the Apostle to Category:Paintings of Andrew the Apostle
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Bathsheba to Category:Paintings of Bathsheba
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Cain and Abel to Category:Paintings of Cain and Abel
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Christ Crowned with Thorns to Category:Paintings of Christ Crowned with Thorns
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane to Category:Paintings of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Christ washing the disciples' feet to Category:Paintings of Christ washing the disciples' feet
- Propose renaming Category:Paintings depicting Cleopatra to Category:Paintings of Cleopatra
- Nominator's rationale: Categories for artworks by subject currently use a mixture of the style "[Paintings, sculptures, etc.] of [a subject]" and "[Paintings, sculptures, etc.] depicting [a subject]", and the style with "of" is the predominant one. Looking at categories for paintings and sculptures, which comprise the bulk of these, there are currently 187 instances of "Paintings of [a subject]" to the 84 of "Paintings depicting...", and 425 of "Sculptures of [a subject]" to the 14 of "Sculptures depicting...". For some other types of artwork we use the style with "of" almost exclusively: "Portraits of...", "Statues of..." and "Murals of...". The word "depicting" is an unfortunate choice for three-dimensional works because the etymology refers to the act of painting.
In the case of Category:Art depicting people and its subcategories which begin "Art depicting...", the categories using "depicting" are inconsistent with most of their sibling categories, which instead use "...in art". Similarly, the subcategories of Category:Topical postage stamps which use the word "depicting" are inconsistent with the majority, which use "...on stamps". Ham II (talk) 08:42, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Soft oppose This is an interesting question. I think some might think of "of" as meaning "by", but we've got the Category:Works by artist tree for that, so I suppose that is not a big problem. "depicting" is less ambiguous in my view, but for consistency's sake, I'm willing to go with the majority formula if there are no other considerations. The only strong objection I really have is that the vast majority of the nominees are about mythological, legendary or religious figures whose existence has not been proven (and often cannot be proven), and/or about whose identities considerable controversies have arisen. "Painting of Foo" suggests more directly that Foo was posing while the painter was painting their portrait (like "Photographs of Foo"; if you were there while Foo was there, you could have captured a similar image yourself), while "depicting" suggests more distance, more creative imagination about what Foo might (have) look(ed) like, while nobody alive in the artist's time has ever observed Foo. Obviously this doesn't apply to Queen Victoria or Elizabeth II, but because stamps often depict mythological or legendary figures as well, I understand that the category tree has been kept consistent with "depicting". I also understand the etymological argument that depicting comes from pingere "to paint", which wouldn't fit other types of art like sculpture, but the meaning of words can change. "picture" is nowadays usually synonymous with "photograph", which has nothing to do with painting either. So I understand the nom, but I can't fully support it for these considerations. NLeeuw (talk) 09:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Paintings of Foo" doesn't imply that they were done from life; that's only true of "Photographs of Foo", and you've drawn too close an analogy because of the linguistic similarity. It wouldn't be more accurate to call Leonardo's Last Supper a "painting depicting the Last Supper" than a "painting of the Last Supper"; the meaning of both phrases is identical.
- "Of" instead of "depicting" would also be preferable in order to avoid unnecessary wordiness further down the category tree: "Category:Paintings of the Madonna and Child by Sandro Botticelli" is less of a mouthful than "Category:Paintings depicting the Madonna and Child by Sandro Botticelli". Ham II (talk) 07:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Additionally, although I know usage has gone beyond this, & it may no make much sense etymologically, part of me dislikes using "depict" when no paint is involved. Can we also change "themes" for the correct "subjects" in Category:Paintings depicting Hebrew Bible themes to Category:Paintings of Hebrew Bible themes & the New Testament one. In art, "death" and "love" are themes, the Lamentation of Christ is a subject (which has themes as well). Johnbod (talk) 17:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support one format across the tree, either "of" or "depicting". I do not really have a preference between them so I am happy to go with the current "of" majority. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral. In other instances—film, for example, I might have opposed this, because films frequently depict persons or things other than their subjects. But in the case of paintings, it seems less likely that we'd need to distinguish between the subject of the painting and something depicted in it. A painting that shows Mars or Helen or the Trojan Horse or the Apostle Paul in the background would probably still be reasonably described as a painting of that person or thing, even though the main subject might be something else. "The Last Supper" is still a painting of each of the Apostles, simply because they appear in it. There's nothing inherently wrong with the "depiction" language, though, and it makes sense to distinguish depictions from subjects in other media, so consistency is not a good argument, IMO. P Aculeius (talk) 13:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Western European culture[edit]
- Propose manually upmerging articles of Category:Western European culture to Category:Culture of Europe; and purging the subcategories
- Propose manually upmerging articles of Category:Central European culture to Category:Culture of Europe; and purging the subcategories
- Propose manually upmerging articles of Category:Northern European culture to Category:Culture of Europe; and purging the subcategories
- Propose manually upmerging articles of Category:Eastern European culture to Category:Culture of Europe; and purging the subcategories
- Propose manually upmerging articles of Category:Southern European culture to Category:Culture of Europe; and purging the subcategories
- Nominator's rationale: Follow-up Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 15#Category:Western European music and other precedents. The child categories are just duplicates of Category:Culture of Europe by country or Category:Culture of Europe by dependent territory, based on home-made WP:OR WP:ARBITRARYCAT definitions of "Western, Northern, Southern, Central", and "Eastern Europe". The few articles in the categories are either also Culture of Fooland articles that have already been diffused (see Category:Southern European culture; these can be purged right away), or are so broadly European that they cannot be limited to arbitrarily defined subregions of Europe. Some examples:
Some examples of articles to be selectively upmerged
|
---|
|
- There's enough room in Category:Culture of Europe for these articles that can hardly be limited by arbitrarily defined subregions of Europe. NLeeuw (talk) 08:38, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Apart from the subcategories the articles are quite a hodgepodge so plain deletion could also be a satisfactory outcome. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh I do think all the articles fit in Category:Culture of Europe. I just don't think we could limit them to arbitrarily defined subregions of Europe. NLeeuw (talk) 04:46, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Letopis[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT, selective duplicate of existing Category:Serbian chronicles and Category:Old East Slavic chronicles. Created last month by User:ArchVKL who has done only 2 edits ever. "Letopis" is just the transcription of the Russian word летопис which is commonly translated as "chronicle". Talk:Letopis (genre) was merged and redirected to Rus' chronicle last year. NLeeuw (talk) 08:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle per nom, but shouldn't it be merged to Category:Chronicles? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:20, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- No, because both child cats are already in that tree, and all 5 pages are already in both child cats except the Cetinje chronicle, which is a manuscript containing several chronicles rather than a chronicle in itself. Merging would lead to duplication. NLeeuw (talk) 04:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I see, I noticed Cetinje chronicle and presumably also Hustyn Chronicle not already elsewhere in the chronicles tree. Hustyn Chronicle should be manually added, right? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. Category:Old East Slavic chronicles as language (at least, the medieval parts as copied. The Hustyn continuation is in Late Ruthenian / Early modern Ukrainian. As theme, it might also fit "Ukrainian chronicles", although that category does not exist yet, and that name is ambiguous.) NLeeuw (talk) 21:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I see, I noticed Cetinje chronicle and presumably also Hustyn Chronicle not already elsewhere in the chronicles tree. Hustyn Chronicle should be manually added, right? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- No, because both child cats are already in that tree, and all 5 pages are already in both child cats except the Cetinje chronicle, which is a manuscript containing several chronicles rather than a chronicle in itself. Merging would lead to duplication. NLeeuw (talk) 04:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Indian independence activists from Pakistan[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: rename, Pakistan did not exist yet when they were independence activists. Purge Mufti Mehmood who was not from Sindh. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Don't you mean Sindh, with an h? Otherwise I agree. NLeeuw (talk) 09:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- I thought so too until I noticed Sind Province (1936–1955). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:14, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Don't you mean Sindh, with an h? Otherwise I agree. NLeeuw (talk) 09:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Nigerian-American Art[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Nigerian-American Art to Category:Nigerian-American culture and history
- Nominator's rationale: Redudant category layer. If not merged, it should be renamed to Nigerian-American art Mason (talk) 04:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
April 20[edit]
Category:9th-century Indian biographers[edit]
- Propose merging Category:9th-century Indian biographers to Category:9th-century biographers and Category:9th-century Indian scholars and Category:Indian biographers
- Propose merging Category:7th-century Indian biographers to Category:7th-century biographers and Category:Indian biographersand Category:7th-century Indian scholars
- Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge for now. These two categories aren't helpful for navigation with only one person in each, and isolated from other Indian biographers centuries by a thousand years Mason (talk) 21:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Just delete the articles are already in Category:Indian male biographers, Category:9th-century Indian poets and Category:7th-century Indian poets. By the way it escapes me why biographers by nationality are split again by gender. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Roman theatres[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Roman theatres to Category:Ancient Roman theatres
- Nominator's rationale: Borderline C2C: Child categories are all Ancient Roman theaters in FOO, while parent is Ancient Roman buildings and structures by type Mason (talk) 20:36, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename per nom. There are probably more "Roman" categories still around. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:"Radium" springs[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Either WP:SHAREDNAME or if there's some more specific connection it's not explained by the articles. Needs a rename if kept. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, these springs have minimal or no radium. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Correct! Radium springs were a non-scientific marketing hook during the early 20th century radium fad. Some springs do show measurable levels of radium (e.g. Stinky Springs) but the reason for the scare quotes here is to indicate that the "radium" claims were mostly bunkum but left a toponymic legacy long after the radium health craze was over, and/or just that as part of that radium-is-healthy! trend they were marketed as radium springs at some point in spring's history, such as was the case with White Point Hot Springs. This doesn't need to be a category bc who cares but just wanted to explain the rationale for creating the category in the first place. jengod (talk) 19:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Zionism by former country[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Zionism by former country to Category:Anti-Zionism by country
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously closed as merge; relisted per request.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 18:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- With meanwhile two subcategories it is still a redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Indian independence activists from Punjab, India[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Indian independence activists from Punjab, India to Category:Indian independence activists from Punjab (British India)
- Propose merging Category:Indian independence activists from Haryana to Category:Indian independence activists from Punjab (British India)
- Propose merging Category:Indian independence activists from Himachal Pradesh to Category:Indian independence activists from Punjab (British India)
- Nominator's rationale: merge, Punjab, India, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh are anachronistic, the activists were active when all three were still part of Punjab Province (British India). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:10th-century Chinese adoptees[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Dual merge: Non defining intersection between century and adoption status Mason (talk) 14:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Kids' Lit Quiz winners[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Although interesting, this category for a student team competition isn't defining for the pages (which are schools) in here. Mason (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:History books about Eastern Europe[edit]
- Propose upmerging Category:History books about Eastern Europe to Category:History books about Europe
- Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Indirect follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 5#Category:Eastern Europe in fiction and other precedents. There is no universally agreed definition of "Eastern Europe" (or "Western/Northern/Southern/Central/Southeastern etc. Europe"), and as such, it is usually better avoided in categorisation. There is no Category:History books about Southern Europe or Category:History books about Central Europe etc. either. The subcategories are not about "Eastern Europe" as such or specifically. The 6 articles in it are arguably about "Eastern Europe" (again depending on definition), but not just "Eastern Europe"; most of them include Poland, Hungary, Romana, Western Ukraine etc. which are sometimes also considered "Central Europe" or "Southeastern Europe". Even the last book, The Walls Came Tumbling Down: The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe, which has "Eastern Europe" in the title, is using a Cold War era definition that almost nobody uses anymore. Meanwhile, the target Category:History books about Europe also includes books such as Revolution 1989: The Fall of the Soviet Empire, so I think upmerging is the proper thing to do. NLeeuw (talk) 09:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. The Cold War is a nice example of definitions being far from stable. Back then we just had east and west, so that Yugoslavia belonged to east and Greece to west. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hah, well, until you take the Tito-Stalin split and Finlandisation into account... NLeeuw (talk) 20:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Japanese Nintedo Games[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Nintendo is a Japanese company. There is no non-Japanese Nintendo games (except those from its western developer Retro Studios which created only a handful of titles). There is significant overlapping for both Category:Video games developed in Japan and Category:Nintendo games. OceanHok (talk) 09:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Caribbean people of Arab descent[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) Category:Haitian people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Haitian people of Egyptian descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent
- Propose merging Category:Egyptian emigrants to Haiti (1 P) to Category:Haitian people of African descent, Category:Immigrants to Haiti and Category:Egyptian emigrants
- Propose merging Category:Jamaican people of Arab descent (2 P) to Category:Jamaican people of Asian descent
- Propose merging Category:Cuban people of Arab descent (1 C, 1 P) to Category:Cuban people of Asian descent
- Nominator's rationale: merge, very few articles and for the biographies it is not clear whether the subjects are really of ethnic Arab descent. They could be Druze, Copts, Assyrians, the articles just do not tell about it. A dual merge is not always needed, the biographies are already in Category:People of Syrian descent etc. and the topic articles are already in Category:Arab diaspora in the Caribbean. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Pro-Khalistan militant outfits[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: rename, "militant outfits" is a phrase that I have never seen before in category names. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment This is a confusing tree. I'm not voting anything yet, I think we need to explore the options first. The main article appears to be Groups of Khalistan movement, which is also a grammatically incorrect title. I think the parent categories provide the best clues: these are Sikh rebel or terrorist groups which seek to establish an independent Khalistan or Sikh state in Punjab through armed violence. I think "organisations" is too generic. How about "Khalistan rebel groups", "Khalistan militant groups" or "Khalistan terrorist organisations"? The articles seem to say almost every single one of them, except Sikhs for Justice, has been designated a terrorist organisation by the government of India, and sometimes other states as well. But since "terrorist" can be POV, "rebel groups" is perhaps more neutral. NLeeuw (talk) 09:59, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong. NLeeuw (talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- No opinion about that. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:15, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. Any thoughts on "Khalistan" versus "pro-Khalistan"? This is the only cat in the tree to use "pro-"; it seems redundant, although not necessarily wrong. NLeeuw (talk) 20:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Rebel groups" is certainly more to the point than the too general "organizations" and this is an established category as well. So definitely an improvement. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Sikh warriors[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Sikh warriors to Category:Sikh warriors (–1849)
- Nominator's rationale: rename and purge, in 1849 the Sikhs ceased to have power in Punjab, the Sikh Empire was merged into British India. The category also contains military personnel of India who happen to be Sikhs, e.g. Jagjit Singh Aurora, they should be purged as a matter of trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Question What do you think this category is supposed to contain right now? And what do you think the category should contain?
- Because what I am seeing is an inappropriate intersection of the Category:People by nationality tree and the Category:People by religion tree
- Category:People by nationality > Category:People by occupation and nationality > Category:Military personnel by nationality > Category:Warriors by nationality > Category:Indian warriors > Category:Sikh warriors
- Category:People by religion > Category:People by religion and nationality > Category:Sikhs by nationality > Category:Indian Sikhs > Category:Sikh warriors
- Even the Category:People by ethnicity tree is mixed up in it because of parent Category:Punjabi people, but that could easily be Purged.
- The word "Sikh" thus acquires a double meaning, namely adherents of Sikhism and subjects of the Sikh Empire or Sikh Confederacy. As you noted, The category also contains military personnel of India who happen to be Sikhs, e.g. Jagjit Singh Aurora. Therefore, the current name is ambiguous. The renaming proposal will not resolve that ambiguity. If we are to identify them with the Sikh Empire as you mentioned in the rationale, then we should
alt renameto Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Empire. This would be in line with my proposal A to rename the parent Category:Sikh military to Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Empire, with possibly a separate category for Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Confederacy. NLeeuw (talk) 10:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)- PS: Oh I see you already created Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Empire as a subcategory of Category:Sikh warriors 3 days ago. Shall we also create Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Confederacy and diffuse the rest? NLeeuw (talk) 10:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Based on the proposal my response is predictable: I think the category is supposed to contain Sikh warriors while the Sikhs were self-governing, i.e. governing the Punjab region in which they were in the majority. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sidenote: there wasn't really any such thing as military personnel of the Sikh Confederacy since the military was primarily organized per member state. They just joined forces upon need. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- while the Sikhs were self-governing, i.e. governing the Punjab region in which they were in the majority. I'm afraid that is an WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Political and military control over an area never perfectly coincides with the area where a certain ethnic, linguistic, religious etc. group lives or lived. That is the fiction of the modern nation-state, that you can have population and state borders coincide. E.g. there never was a time when all inhabitants of the "Netherlands" were "Dutch" by ethnicity, language, nationality or whatever, nor did they ever all adhere to exactly the same religion. Crosscats of people by nationality, by religion, by ethnicity and by language are always inappropriate for that reason.
- If confederacies / confederations do not have military personnel, how come we've got: Category:Confederate States of America military personnel, Category:Swiss military personnel by century before 1848 (when Switzerland transformed from a confederation to a federation) etc.? Besides, there is an article about Dal Khalsa (Sikh Army). NLeeuw (talk) 14:38, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is more than likely that the area that the Sikhs controlled did not exactly match with the spread of their religion. But that does not matter for the articles which are clearly about Sikh warriors defending their territories. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sidenote: Category:16th-century Swiss military personnel is vague enough about how the military is organized, just like Category:Sikh warriors. It is not Category:16th-century military personnel of the Swiss Confederacy. On the other hand the Confederate States of America never seem to have had separate armies per state. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- PS: Oh I see you already created Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Empire as a subcategory of Category:Sikh warriors 3 days ago. Shall we also create Category:Military personnel of the Sikh Confederacy and diffuse the rest? NLeeuw (talk) 10:46, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Sex industry in South Korea[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer: 1 C, 0 P. Upmerge for now without prejudice. NLeeuw (talk) 08:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Single merge to Category:Sexuality in South Korea, not triple merge because the subcategory is already in Category:Prostitution by country and Category:Prostitution in Asia. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Indonesian pornography[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. Upmerge for now without prejudice. Because it's not eponymous, it can't be speedied like the rest. NLeeuw (talk) 08:41, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom, though Category:Sex industry in Indonesia as a merge target is somewhat questionable considering the topic of the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:06, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in fiction[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Albanian pornography[edit]
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Albanian pornography to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Europe; Category:Cinema of Albania; Category:Sex industry in Albania
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Armenian pornography to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Asia; Category:Pornography in Europe; Category:Cinema of Armenia; Category:Sex industry in Armenia
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Belarusian pornography to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Europe; Category:Cinema of Belarus; Category:Sex industry in Belarus
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Croatian pornography to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Europe; Category:Cinema of Croatia; Category:Sex industry in Croatia
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Bhutanese pornography to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Asia
- Propose speedy upmerging Category:Pornography in North Korea to Category:Pornography by country; Category:Pornography in Asia
- Nominator's rationale: Speedy upmerge per WP:C2F. NLeeuw (talk) 08:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Will Haven[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: This eponymous category used to have a couple articles for its band members which have been redirected. With only an albums subcategory now, this parent is no longer necessary. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 03:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
April 19[edit]
Category:Sikh military[edit]
- A: Propose renaming Category:Sikh military to Category:Military of the Sikh Empire, and Purging this tree of everything unrelated to the Sikh Empire (which may mean either removing all three subcategories, or also renaming and purging those subcategories as a follow-up to this nomination); or
- B: Propose deleting Category:Sikh military as an WP:ARBITRARYCAT (and also Delete the subcategories (at least the Wars and Military units ones) as a follow-up to this nomination)
- Nominator's rationale: Renaming (A) may be a good idea because of parents Category:Sikh Empire and Category:Military by former country, and siblings in Category:Military by former country. However, as @Marcocapelle pointed out at Speedy, this requires more discussion because there is lots of content in the category that pre-dates the Sikh Empire. Moreover, Dharamyudh (Sikhism) (an article I wrote some years ago) is a religious concept, and does not belong solely to the Sikh Empire as a state. Alternately, we could also decide that this is just an WP:ARBITRARYCAT that should be deleted (B). Also, I think that the two recently created children Category:Military units and formations of the Sikhs and Category:Wars involving the Sikhs may be WP:ARBITRARYCATs, which will also have to be renamed (A) or deleted (B). Category:Sikh warriors may be a valid category (if it passes WP:EGRS), but not all those within the military of the Sikh Empire were necessarily adherents of Sikhism, so unless renamed & rescoped, that subcategory should be removed from this tree. Please indicate your preference, as both seem workable solutions to the current issues. NLeeuw (talk) 14:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is a difficult one, because the Sikhs dominated (parts of) Punjab, but did not have a consistent political structure in that region during the two centuries that this category tree is about. They did have military though, to defend their territories. The period covers the Early Mughal–Sikh wars until the Afghan–Sikh wars and it is only during the latter wars that there was first a Sikh Confederacy and later a Sikh Empire. Deletion or purging would certainly be counter-productive because it would arbitrarily break the military history of the region. At most diffuse by different periods. An alternative in a completely different direction is renaming to Category:Sikh military (1621–1849). Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- I really don't think we should be categorising military history by religious denomination. That's kinda like creating Category:Anabaptist military and then throwing Münster rebellion and Anabaptist riot in there, as if those were carried out by the Armed Forces of the same "state". They weren't.
- We could split up by state, e.g. Category:Wars involving the Sikh Confederacy and Category:Wars involving the Sikh Empire. I would definitely support that. I could add that as Option C to the nom. NLeeuw (talk) 20:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- The comparison with Anabaptists is unfair because the two articles you mentioned are situated at two different places and the Anabaptists held power in only one of them. Hypothetically, if they would have maintained longer in Münster, and if there they would have been called "the Anabaptists" by historians as belligerant in wars, then by all means Category:Anabaptist military would have been a valid category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think it is fair, because as you mentioned, the Sikh Empire is a different state than the Sikh Confederacy, and formations such as the Akal Sena are even older, but did not yet have their own state; they were in rebellion against the Mughal Empire. (I suppose that's what you are referring to by your suggestion to start counting form 1621?).
- At any rate, we should avoid categorising military personnel by religion per WP:EGRS. A military or armed group is either always connected to a state, or usually intends to form its own state or quasi-state, and sometimes already operates a proto-state or quasi-state (even gangs and mafia can have territories of influence where they extract 'protection money', i.e. tribute). (It is for this reason that we have maintained Military personnel of Fooland rather than Military personnel from Fooland conventions; their service to Fooland defines them, not their birth or residence in Fooland).
- The Akal Sena was such a group, whose military aspects were defined by their loyalty to Guru Hargobind, and their pursuit to establish an independent Sikh state (the First Sikh State arose in 1709). The personal religious beliefs of the individual soldiers in the Akal Sena are WP:NONDEFINING for the group as a military force in service of a guru and a proto-state in the Punjab region. NLeeuw (talk) 10:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- It may have started as a rebellion, but so did the Dutch Republic which is in retrospect said to have started in the 1570s while it was only recognized by Spain in 1648. There is usually a grey area between rebellion and independence. For the Sikhs independence presumably started in 1606 with the Akal Takht and the first battle against the Mughal Empire taking place in 1621, the Battle of Rohilla. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:13, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- The comparison with Anabaptists is unfair because the two articles you mentioned are situated at two different places and the Anabaptists held power in only one of them. Hypothetically, if they would have maintained longer in Münster, and if there they would have been called "the Anabaptists" by historians as belligerant in wars, then by all means Category:Anabaptist military would have been a valid category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:17, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- See also this follow up discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:People's peers[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: The term "people's peers" is chiefly informal, while the new title is unambiguous as to its scope and resembles other similar category names, e.g. "Peers appointed by [monarch]". — RAVENPVFF · talk · 13:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Biota of Tierra del Fuego[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: Just delete for now without prejudice. It's a redundant layer and its only child is already in all the trees of this cat's parents. NLeeuw (talk) 13:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Southern Cone countries[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. There is no universal definition of Southern Cone; Paraguay is sometimes included, sometimes excluded, and only some Federative units of Brazil are sometimes included, sometimes excluded, but never is Brazil as a whole included. Even if we take the strict definition of just Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, that's only three countries, and this category has no other navigational value. Its parent Category:Countries in South America by region only has this child, so that was a redundant layer anyway, and should be deleted as well. NLeeuw (talk) 13:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, there are only 12 countries in South America so that does not require diffusion. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Southern cone music[edit]
- Propose upmerging Category:Southern cone music to Category:Music of South America
- Nominator's rationale: Main article was deleted as WP:OR: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern cone music. The remainder may be upmerged to Category:Music of South America. NLeeuw (talk) 13:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Haitian people of Mulatto descent[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Haitian people of Mulatto descent to Category:Mulatto Haitians
- Nominator's rationale: rename per article Mulatto Haitians. It probably is a case of WP:C2D speedy renaming, but maybe there are objections. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Maratha Empire[edit]
- Propose deleting Category:1782 in the Maratha Empire
- Propose deleting Category:1792 in the Maratha Empire
- Nominator's rationale: delete, isolated year categories. No need to merge, the articles are still in Category:1782 in India and Category:1792 in India, and already in Category:Treaties of the Maratha Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. PadFoot2008 (talk) 10:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Jewish history by region[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Jewish history by region to Category:Jewish history by continent
- Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:20th-century Andorran people by occupation[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: There's no need to have a by occupation category when there's only one occupation Mason (talk) 00:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:24, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
April 18[edit]
Category:Chicago television shows[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Chicago television shows to Category:Local television programming in Chicago
- Nominator's rationale: Current name is way too close to Category:Television shows set in Chicago and much too vague given its actual, very specific meaning, and needs to be changed. This suggestion is based on Category:Local television programming in the United States, and it's probably the best I can come up with, though alternate suggestions are very welcome. Similar issue exists for all of Television in Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Philadelphia, St. Louis, and the San Francisco Bay Area, so this nomination could be expanded. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 21:51, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Shouldn't this become Category:Original programming by local channels in Chicago, comparable to Category:Original programming by American television network or channel? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Flip-flop: I like this idea better. It's longer, but more precise. Fuddle (talk) 21:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to this, even if it's a bit of a mouthful. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Habitats Directive Species[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Habitats Directive Species to Category:Habitats Directive species
- Nominator's rationale: While "HD" is a proper noun, "HDS" is not. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, not a defining characterstic. If kept, rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Queen of ♡ | speak 19:52, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment @Marcocapelle: "Species described in year" and "IUCN vulnerable species" categories are not defining characteristics, either, but those are widely used. How are those acceptable but this isn't? For the record, I oppose deletion. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- @UtherSRG: the tree of Category:Species by IUCN Red List category is also very questionable, as species may easily be moved from one list to another in the course of time. At least IUCN is a global organization, while the category we are discussing is only regional. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Shabbat observant businesses[edit]
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 21:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Propose renaming Category:Shabbat observant businesses to Category:Shabbat-observant businesses
- Nominator's rationale: I think "Shabbat observant" is a compound adjective that should have a hyphen. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 00:37, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NONDEF. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Queen of ♡ | speak 19:46, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Religious extremism[edit]
- Propose renaming Category:Religious extremism to Category:Religious fanaticism
- Propose renaming Category:Religious extremism in the United Kingdom to Category:Religious fanaticism in the United Kingdom
- Nominator's rationale: rename per main article Religious fanaticism. This could perhaps be speedied, but let's see if there are objections after all. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Rename. Religious extremism is a redirect to religious fanaticism. If it weren't, I would oppose. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 23:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Music of Extremadura[edit]
- Propose upmerging Category:Music of Extremadura to Category:Culture of Extremadura
- Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. Already in other parent. Upmerge for now without prejudice. NLeeuw (talk) 16:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy merge per WP:C2F. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:31, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per above. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:12, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy merge per WP:C2F. GCarty (talk) 07:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias[edit]
- Propose splitting Category:Bulgarian encyclopedias to Category:Books about Bulgaria and Category:Bulgarian-language encyclopedias
- Nominator's rationale: It is not useful to lump together works from or about Bulgaria with works in the Bulgarian language that could be about different topics. Some entries might remain in the original category if they are about encyclopedias from Bulgaria. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Split per nom. Alt rename target 2 to Category:Encyclopedias in Bulgarian per the c:Category:Encyclopedias by language naming scheme of
Encyclopedias in Fooian
. I already proposed Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. I recommend we follow the recent renaming of Category:Texts by language, Category:Songs by language, and others to this sameThings in Fooian
naming convention for clarity and consistency. NLeeuw (talk) 00:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:28, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment That an encyclopedia was published in Bulgaria does not mean that the topic is Bulgaria. Encyclopedias tend to cover a wide variety of topics. Dimadick (talk) 14:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- That's not what Dimadick said; he pointed out that country of publication and topic do not need to match, rather than that country of publication and language do not need to match.
- Incidentally, specialised English-language encyclopedias are published all over the world all the time. Within a few seconds I just found the Encyclopedia of Coastal Science (2005), published in Dordrecht, the Netherlands. Last I checked, English still isn't the dominant native language over here, but that doesn't stop anyone from publishing encyclopaedias in English on "Dutch" soil. ;) NLeeuw (talk) 00:09, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- In practice it is very unlikely that an encyclopedia published in Bulgaria wouldn't be Bulgarian-language encyclopedia, so they would fall in the second split target. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Dutch encyclopedias[edit]
- Option 1
- Propose renaming Category:Dutch encyclopedias to Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch
- Propose renaming Category:Belarusian encyclopedias to Category:Encyclopedias in Belarusian
- Propose renaming Category:Albanian encyclopedias to Category:Encyclopedias in Albanian
- Propose renaming Category:Bengali encyclopedias to Category:Encyclopedias in Bengali
- Propose renaming Category:Tamil language encyclopedias to Category:Encyclopedias in Tamil
- Option 2
- Propose renaming Category:Dutch encyclopedias to Category:Dutch-language encyclopedias
- Propose renaming Category:Belarusian encyclopedias to Category:Belarusian-language encyclopedias
- Propose renaming Category:Albanian encyclopedias to Category:Albanian-language encyclopedias
- Propose renaming Category:Bengali encyclopedias to Category:Bengali-language encyclopedias
- Propose renaming Category:Tamil language encyclopedias to Category:Tamil-language encyclopedias
- (both options):
- Propose purging incorrect parents Category:Encyclopedias by country and Category:European encyclopedias/Category:Asian encyclopedias
- Nominator's rationale for Option 1: Per the actual scope of the main article, List of Dutch encyclopedias, which I have just renamed List of encyclopedias in Dutch, because the scope as indicated by the definition in the opening sentence is 'Encyclopedias in the Dutch language', and includes several encyclopedias published in Belgium rather than the Netherlands. The connected Commonscat was already named c:Category:Encyclopedias in Dutch. The interwiki to frwiki was already fr:Liste d'encyclopédies en néerlandais, a redirect to fr:Liste d'encyclopédies par langue#Néerlandais, and to nlwiki already to nl:Encyclopedie#Nederlandstalige encyclopedieën. This also means we should Purge parents Category:Encyclopedias by country and Category:European encyclopedias, because the Dutch language is not necessarily limited by geography to Europe either (e.g. there is an nl:Encyclopedie van Suriname, published in 1977 in Suriname, two years after it became indepedent). Because I recently renamed the main article myself, speedy criterion C2D does not count, but as you can see, it has always been the main article's and category's scope. NLeeuw (talk) 12:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Update 6 April 2024 and rationale for Option 2: Belarusian, Albanian, Bengali and Tamil language encyclopedias have been added to the nomination following their speedy renaming nomination by LaundryPizza03, and Marcocapelle's suggestion to go full, and my suggestion to centralise discussion over here. The rationale for Option 2 is that it conforms with most older naming conventions to name things Fooian-language things. By contrast, emerging new conventions (Option 1) favour Things in Fooian. We all agree the current categories should be renamed, but the question is which Option is preferable. For both options, it is proposed to Purge them out of the by country and by continent trees, because these encyclopedias are by language. NLeeuw (talk) 16:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support, language is generally much more a defining characteristic of a book than the country where it is published. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:36, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. Country of publication could be defining, and it's okay that we've got a Category:Encyclopedias by country tree. But if we need to choose, I think language takes priority over country of publication. We could do both, but then we risk situations like Category:Latvian encyclopedias and Category:Latvian-language encyclopedias, which are technically distinct, but both contain the two same items in practice. Only for larger languages and countries like France versus the French language, it is evident to have separate category trees, especially if the latter has a subcategory like "Belgian encyclopedias in French" or something, showing that France and French don't always coincidence. NLeeuw (talk) 12:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @Marcocapelle:, you might want to clarify or change your !vote based on the amended nomination and rationale. Thanks. NLeeuw (talk) 16:16, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I do not have a strong preference between option 1 and 2, both are an improvement versus current. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @Marcocapelle:, you might want to clarify or change your !vote based on the amended nomination and rationale. Thanks. NLeeuw (talk) 16:16, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. Country of publication could be defining, and it's okay that we've got a Category:Encyclopedias by country tree. But if we need to choose, I think language takes priority over country of publication. We could do both, but then we risk situations like Category:Latvian encyclopedias and Category:Latvian-language encyclopedias, which are technically distinct, but both contain the two same items in practice. Only for larger languages and countries like France versus the French language, it is evident to have separate category trees, especially if the latter has a subcategory like "Belgian encyclopedias in French" or something, showing that France and French don't always coincidence. NLeeuw (talk) 12:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)- Support option 2. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:03, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support option 2. Matches with Category:Mass media by language tree. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Estonian numismatists[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Estonian numismatists to Category:Estonian collectors and Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Latvian numismatists to Category:Latvian historians (because missing of Category:Latvian collectors) and Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Lithuanian numismatists to Category:Lithuanian collectors and Category:Numismatists
- Additional one person categories. Mason (talk) 12:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Pakistani numismatists to Category:Pakistani collectors and Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:New Zealand numismatists to Category:Numismatists and Category:New Zealand collectors
- Propose merging Category:Jordanian numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Slovak numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Czechoslovak numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Belarusian numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Hi! How are you? I added a couple of Belarusian numismatists, based on be-tarask:Катэгорыя:Беларускія нумізматы, where there are 11 more. Best wishes,--W (talk) 14:05, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Propose merging Category:Azerbaijani numismatists to Category:Numismatists and Category:Azerbaijani collectors
- Propose merging Category:Armenian numismatists to Category:Numismatists and Category:Armenian collectors
- Propose merging Category:Algerian numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Albanian numismatists to Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Sri Lankan numismatists to Category:Sri Lankan collectors and Category:Numismatists
- Propose merging Category:Serbian numismatists to Category:Serbian collectors and Category:Numismatists
- Nominator's rationale: 1-member. Little potential to grow Estopedist1 (talk) 11:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Upmerge for now without prejudice per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 11:54, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Upmerge for now per nom. I've added the rest of the single person categories. @Nederlandse Leeuw and Estopedist1:Mason (talk) 12:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Smasongarrison I'm not sure if Estopedist would appreciate it that you changed their nomination. It makes sense, but I think it's better to ask the nominator to include other categories to their nomination than to do it yourself without their prior consent.
- If Estopedist agrees, however, I also favour upmerging the additional categories for now without prejudice. NLeeuw (talk) 12:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Estopedist1 @Smasongarrison @Nederlandse Leeuw thanks very much for the work here, I was looking at these last night but then had to go to sleep! I've done a little more tidying:
- Category:Czechoslovak numismatists is empty (with one moved to Czech
- Category:New Zealand numsimatists is empty (the one classed as numismatist is really a coin designer, so moved to that category)
- Category:Belarusian numismatists - I can't seem to locate the proposal for it?
- There are some more things I had in mind that I will try to get to, today Lajmmoore (talk) 14:26, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Upmerge for now per nom. I've added the rest of the single person categories. @Nederlandse Leeuw and Estopedist1:Mason (talk) 12:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment As stated, Category:New Zealand numismatists is empty. Liz Read! Talk! 16:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge for now, without objection to recreate any of these categories when some more articles are available. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: by nominator. Excellent job, mates! Thanks for modifying my original nomination!--Estopedist1 (talk) 19:18, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: - Categories: Belarusian, Estonian, Lithuanian and Pakistani numismatist are no longer single person categories. Lajmmoore (talk) 21:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- They have only two or three articles so they can still be merged. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think for the discipline it's useful for catgeories that reflect more than one article to be separate, and I believe the nominations were made prior to the addition of more people to the categories Lajmmoore (talk) 09:43, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- These categories also show users which articles still need to be created in the English Wikipedia based on the categories in other language Wikipedias. For example, I was surprised by how many articles we are still missing for Estonian numistamists in enwp. Obliterating the categories won't help people with that.
- On a side note, I was also surprised by how few of the people in the same category in other language wps had properly filled out items in Wikidata that could be used to query numistamists from these places, even when they are in the properly titled categories in other wps. To me, this looks like a very good reason to get people together to expand and create articles on these people in enwp, filling out the categories, instead of deleting the categories. - Yupik (talk) 07:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- They have only two or three articles so they can still be merged. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge - Albanian, Algerian, Azerbaijani, Czechoslovak, Jordanian, Latvian, New Zealand Serbian, Slovak, Sri Lankan, but ...
- Leave - Belarusian, Estonian, Lithuanian Lajmmoore (talk) 11:06, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment If you merge the Jordanian, Slovak, Czechoslovak, Belarusian, Algerian, and Albanian numismatists, you also need to put them into categories for their nationalities, like Category:Jordanian people or a subcategory. It would be wrong to take these people out of their nationality categories entirely. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 23:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- They are not taken out anyway, the articles are also in nationality trees in other ways, e.g. Shpresa Gjongecaj is in Category:21st-century Albanian people. So a dual merge isn't needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:18th-century American slave owners[edit]
- Propose deleting Category:18th-century American slave owners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:19th-century American slave owners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:18th-century slave owners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (added by Mason on (talk) 19:46, 4 April 2024 (UTC))
- Propose deleting Category:19th-century slave owners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (added by Mason on (talk) 19:46, 4 April 2024 (UTC))
- Propose deleting Category:Slave owners by century (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (added by Mason (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC))
- Nominator's rationale: Do we really need to diffuse by century of ownership? I don't think that the category is helpful. I think diffusion by state would be more helpful. Mason (talk) 03:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- It looks like the categories have been depopulated. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW: @MarcocapelleWhen I nominated the categories, there were zero pages in them, just the slave-trader categories. Mason (talk) 22:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Upmerge to Category:American slave owners. Redundant layers. NLeeuw (talk) 05:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Opose Whyever delete it? It is always usefull to sort people by century, and the category American slave owners is too big, and need sub categories. Nothing prevents having both a category by state and a category by century; other categories of people do. Slaves have century categories, and nothing prevents having century categories for slave owners as well. They are always helpful when a reader need to find people by century, and do not prevent the creation of other categories, such as state categories.--Aciram (talk) 12:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- As the category creator,Aciram, are you planning on populating them? Mason (talk) 22:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- If it's just 2 centuries, I strongly recommend against subdividing by centuries. There will be a lot of duplication without navigational advantage. Splitting by state seems doable and defining, however. NLeeuw (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm adding the newly-created parent categories, that are also not populated with pages, in a moment. @Aciram@Marcocapelle@Nederlandse Leeuw Mason (talk) 19:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it's very helpful to start creating new empty categories with little navigational value in the middle of a CfD. That said, I'll emphasise that I favour upmerging for now without prejudice. If a newly created category can be properly filled with items and has demonstrable navigational value, there's nothing wrong with it. NLeeuw (talk) 22:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'm adding the newly-created parent categories, that are also not populated with pages, in a moment. @Aciram@Marcocapelle@Nederlandse Leeuw Mason (talk) 19:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- If it's just 2 centuries, I strongly recommend against subdividing by centuries. There will be a lot of duplication without navigational advantage. Splitting by state seems doable and defining, however. NLeeuw (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- As the category creator,Aciram, are you planning on populating them? Mason (talk) 22:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete as nominated. It is not helpful to sort by century.--User:Namiba 00:27, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Diffusion by century is always useful in large categories. Dimadick (talk) 14:41, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, there is also a Category:Slave owners from the Thirteen Colonies so this century scheme only separate biographies of the very last part of the 18th century versus what we already have separated. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- That seems like an argument for deleting the American-specific categories above, but not the ones for slave owners in general. --GCarty (talk) 07:28, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Agree to some extent. On the other hand, apart from American slave owners, we just have slave traders who have their own category tree anyway. Modifying to: delete Category:18th-century American slave owners and Category:19th-century American slave owners at the very least. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- That seems like an argument for deleting the American-specific categories above, but not the ones for slave owners in general. --GCarty (talk) 07:28, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)- Delete per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:01, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete/upmerge: Diffusing by country/state makes a lot more sense and would save from the overlap issue that NLeeuw mentioned. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms
- Nominator's rationale: This category feels WP:COATRACKy. There is no Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians, even though those are far more prevalent. Moreover, many of the incidents here were not even defined by the participation of Muslims so inclusion into the Islam and anti-Semitism article would not always be appropriate. User:Namiba 18:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --GCarty (talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators. NLeeuw (talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --GCarty (talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- This would be comparable to the existing Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia.
- Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Mandatory Palestine and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in Ottoman Palestine could also be moved into this category.
- Splitting to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- "Middle East" is a very modern term, coined in the 20th century. "Middle East and North Africa" is even more recent. I don't think it's a good idea. If we are going to rescope by geography rather than perpetrator's religion (which is an improvement), let's stick to continents:
- That would work for me. NLeeuw (talk) 22:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Middle East is the modern successor term of Near East which has existed for a long time. Jews have been very prevalent specifically in the Middle East (since ancient times) and in North Africa (since many centuries) so splitting to Middle East and North Africa fits very well with Jewish history. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:30, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Splitting to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa could be an option indeed. (Note that we do not have a Category:Middle East and North Africa tree.) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps rename to Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and North Africa, or something similar? --GCarty (talk) 08:35, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Understandable. But the effect might be that unnecessary emphasis is placed on Muslims as perpetrators in a way that is currently not done for Christians (or others) as perpetrators. NLeeuw (talk) 01:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- I originally created that category, feeling that pogroms by Muslims were notable precisely because they were much less common than pogroms by (especially Russian or other Eastern European) Christians. --GCarty (talk) 07:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support for upmerging. The fact that there is no equivalent Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians tree is striking; either it will have to be created, or the Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims needs to be upmerged. Given that, as far as I can see, there are no article titles identifying the religion of the perpetrators, only identifying the location and or year of the pogrom(s), nom is probably correct. NLeeuw (talk) 18:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @Marcocapelle and Smasongarrison: for your consideration. NLeeuw (talk) 18:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with consistency and do not oppose the nomination. Alternatively we may create and populate Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms by Christians. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:39, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Meanwhile GCarty proposed another alternative which (if slightly modified) I would not oppose either. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. If not, delete. "By Muslims" is simply unacceptable in a category name. Even when the majority of the perpetrators were Muslims, the name implies that their religion was a key factor in the process (rather than politics, economics, etc.). Usually this is either false or unknown. Would we name a cat about things done by Israel with "by Jews"? Zerotalk 04:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- As mentioned above, I now think the this category (which I created originally) should be replaced with Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Middle East and/or Category:Anti-Jewish pogroms in North Africa. --GCarty (talk) 19:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- As the nominator, I suggest we merge with no objection to splitting off articles by continent for consistency's sake.--User:Namiba 20:21, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)- Merge per nom and per discussion above. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim field personnel[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim field personnel to Category:Los Angeles Angels field personnel
- Propose merging Category:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim managers to Category:Los Angeles Angels managers
- Propose merging Category:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim coaches to Category:Los Angeles Angels coaches
- Propose merging Category:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim executives to Category:Los Angeles Angels executives — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omnis Scientia (talk • contribs) 15:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Merge categories per previous discussion here. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging @Eureka Lott and @Natg 19 from the previous discussion on the matter. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:46, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:The Book of Boba Fett episodes[edit]
- Nominator's rationale: All episodes were redirected so no content here. The child category will automatically be placed in the parent category if this is deleted. Gonnym (talk) 12:03, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete redundant layer. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 23:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Category:Swedish emigrants to Japan[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Swedish emigrants to Japan to Category:Swedish emigrants and Category:Immigrants to Japan
- Propose merging Category:Australian emigrants to the Netherlands to Category:Australian emigrants and Category:Immigrants to the Netherlands
- Nominator's rationale: Dual speedy upmerge for now. These categories were deleted due to only having one person it in (and is still the case), which wasn't helpful for navigation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_11#More_emigrants Mason (talk) 11:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:38, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom, as contains only one entry. GCarty (talk) 07:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Part of a large and established category tree. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is not a tree in which every possible combination has its own category. For example there are no less than 33 articles directly in Category:Swedish emigrants and only 30 subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Tourism in Brazil by city[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Belo Horizonte to Category:Economy of Belo Horizonte
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Curitiba to Category:Economy of Curitiba
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Porto Alegre to Category:Economy of Porto Alegre
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Salvador, Bahia to Category:Economy of Salvador, Bahia
- Nominator's rationale: These only contain subcats for tourist attractions, which are already categorised in Category:Tourist attractions in Brazil by city. – Fayenatic London 11:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom (or delete, as I am not sure if tourist attractions really belong in economy). Marcocapelle (talk) 16:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
History of Ipê[edit]
- Propose merging Category:History of Ipê to Category:Ipê, Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose deleting Category:History of the municipalities of Rio Grande do Sul
- Nominator's rationale: Only contains 1 article on a museum. – Fayenatic London 11:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge/delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Talian dialect[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Geography of Antônio Prado to Category:Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Geography of Ipê to Category:Rio Grande do Sul
- Nominator's rationale: These categories only contain one article, That article is about Talian dialect, which I don't think we would generally categorise as geography anyway. – Fayenatic London 10:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul[edit]
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in the municipalities of Rio Grande do Sul to Category:Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Flores da Cunha to Category:Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Flores da Cunha to Category:Municipalities in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Garibaldi to Category:Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Garibaldi to Category:Municipalities in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Ipe to Category:Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul and Category:Ipê, Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose merging Category:Tourism in Vila Flores to Category:Tourism in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose deleting Category:Geography of Vila Flores
- Propose merging Category:Vila Flores to Category:Municipalities in Rio Grande do Sul
- Propose deleting Category:Geography of Vila Flores
- Nominator's rationale: Merge for now, only one or two pages in these sub-categories, and mostly it's the same regional article. – Fayenatic London 09:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:46, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Older discussions[edit]
The above are up to 7 days old. For a list of discussions more than seven days old, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/All old discussions.