Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Nomination withdrawn. Moving the page took care of the notability concerns, and this is clearly no longer a deletion discussion. Non-admin closing. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 11:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2008 Olympics attack on American nationals[edit]

This person's only claims of notability are:

being related to another notable person (namely, being the father of an Olympic athlete); and
having been murdered earlier today.

Per Invalid criteria and One event, this is clearly not enough. Delete. Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 02:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Subject of a large media event and even discussed by President Bush. Article should be renamed to something like 2008 Olympics attack of American nationals or something like that. Article is only just being put together. President George Bush, in China for the Games, spoke with reporters and said, "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. And the United States government has offered to provide any assistance the family needs." Feel free to disagree, I am open to changing my mind --mboverload @ 02:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NOTICE:Article has been moved to 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals --mboverload @ 03:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~I have adopted the article and I have significantly changed its focus since it was AfD'd.~~ --mboverload @ 03:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article was also initially in error about the daughter's status. She participated in the 2004 games, but not this year. She is married to the men's volleyball coach, who is a participant in the 2008 games. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 03:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - International news story with potentially serious implications for Chinese authorities and their alleged "security". That part remains to be seen. Renaming the article takes away the "non-notable biography" complaint, although the guy isn't just some tourist, he's also a corporate CEO. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 03:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, for now at least. All indications are that the perp was a lone deranged individual. Unless something more develops from this, I don't see this as ever being worth more than a couple of sentences in related articles. Wikinews already has a well developed article on the subject and that's where it belongs unless something bigger develops from this. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 03:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep at new location. Substantial coverage is available in a number of reliable sources. If someone devises a better article title to cover this and other events like it, great.DickClarkMises (talk) 03:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Vote changed to neutral Per Elipongo and the wikinews story we already have coverage of this event. --mboverload @ 03:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not notable other than circumstances of death, see WP:ONEEVENT. WWGB (talk) 03:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - You deletionists kill me. How about you wait a couple of days and see if this evolves into a larger story concerning the security gap in this supposedly tightly-controlled country. If it doesn't, well, then you can kill it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 03:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly what I was saying before. The "lack of notability" argument doesn't fly in this case. Also I noticed one of the people who is making statements on this matter has made himself responsible for keeping track of obituaries in each calendar year. Get a new hobby, maybe? How morbid. This topic does not fit the category you want to assign it to. Keep in mind there have been incidents at other Olympic Games. I don't recall people trying to change facts or news into something else in those cases. BB has it right, go do your "editing" somewhere else. Also I think the junior crime experts who posted in this section are wrong too. Crashingthewaves (talk) 10:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Contrariwise, it could just as easily be re-created if it does indeed evolve into something more significant. As things stand now I'd have to say that this event is more suited to Wikinews than Wikipedia. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 04:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, as long as you don't also delete the wikinews story in the process. Meanwhile, the notability rules on this site make no sense. This guy was a corporate CEO, connected to an Olympic athlete and an Olympic coach; he gets murdered in an event that catches the attention of the U.S. President and gets wide coverage; but it's "not notable". Meanwhile, we've got a cadre of editors trying to claim that everyone who has ever played professional baseball on any level is notable. I wonder how many Florida State League dropouts were millionaires? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 04:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikinews stories are in charge of the Wikinews project. .:davumaya:. 10:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Todd Bachman is the CEO of a moderately large corporation in Minnesota, it has caught the attention of President Bush, wide news coverate, father of a former Olympic athlete, and father-in-law of an Olympic coach. -JWGreen (talk) 04:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. A tragedy that captured worldwide attention is very notable. Completely agree with Baseball Bugs. Smuckers ^{It has to be good} 05:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is a worldwide news item. They were there for the Beijing Olympics, a center of the world's attention. Todd Bachman was notable anyway as the head of a corporation whose name is recognized by the public, even if he had not been related to an Olympic athlete. Note that we have numerous articles like Murder of Dru Sjodin, in which the crime was notable even though the person was not, and in this case the crime is far more notable than that one, and the person was already notable even if the crime had not happened. Michael Hardy (talk) 06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- As murders go, this one is pretty notable. The press is already going wild with this one, and no doubt will continue to do so. The title of it does seem a bit unwieldy though, perhaps a name change? Umbralcorax (talk) 06:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - into the Concerns over the 2008 Summer Olympics article. --Philip Laurence (talk) 08:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to create a 2008 Summer Olympics related crime article. 70.55.85.40 (talk) 08:28, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Concerns over the 2008 Summer Olympics. Although that article is looking a bit long. BUC (talk) 09:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Concerns article. This reminds me of the Craigslist killing deletion debate. The events will not require their own page which will likely remain a stub for months after more CNN-esque news stories pop up. .:davumaya:. 10:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep at least until further information is known. Other attacks such as the akihabara massacre have individual articles, and this is not something that can be wholly attached to "Concerns over the 2008 Summer Olympics". An article about the Olympics does not seem to be an appropriate place to describe a perpetrator of an attack, rather a place to shortly discuss the event with a {{main}} tag. Whether or not the article satisfies WP:N will not be known until a later date, but given the particular connection to the Olympics, it may be assumed that there is reasonable potential for notability. — C M B J 11:01, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.