Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/India–Pakistan football rivalry
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. ✗plicit 12:43, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
India–Pakistan football rivalry[edit]
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- India–Pakistan football rivalry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NSPORT. This article is similar to the China–India football rivalry, political rivalry or geopolitical issues or border conflicts cannot be reason for rivalry in sports. Here the source provided talks of cricket. Again similar to the other article there is no established rivalry, majority of the matches won by India and Pakistan won just 3. And the Pakistan women team won zero matches. This cannot be called as a rivalry. Also seems to me as hoax article. Drat8sub (talk) 10:55, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- China-India article had already reached a consensus for deletion but somehow it wasn't deleted. Geopolitical issues and tensions between two entities create rivalries, however, one cannot base an entire sporting rivalry only because of the geopolitical reasons, hence China-India article was nominated for deletion. But when it comes to India - Pakistan article it is not appropriate to write it off as a hoax. The rivalry exists between the two nations in every sport including football. It is beyond geopolitics. Women's section can be removed, but clearly men's section is not lop sided. Pakistan had their share of victories. Derbi Barceloní has Espanyol with 34% of victories, yet it exists. Also, when India went to Pakistan in around 90s, they were told by Pakistani players that they wouldn't win the tournament, yet they did.[1] These instances demonstrate the rivalry. Plus there's an interesting aspect that can help readers provide more information for the rivalry between these two, that is the Crossing Divide section. There are handful of players who have represented both the national teams. This section can be seen in club rivalries but for the national team, it is rare and interesting. I have placed these arguments for not deleting it and instead wish people help it expand. I did a lot of research and editing to create this article, if they insist on deletion, I do not mind. Footy2000 (talk) 11:15, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know you are one of the few people who are working on Indian football and NT related articles. But I must say, without these articles also, NT articles can be made a FA or GA, not necessary that you need to show a imaginary rivalry. India hardly face Pakistan in continental levels, not even continental quailification or Worldcup qualifications. By bringing comparison with Derbi Barceloni which is around 300 matches history to 25 matches itself making your point weak. Above that India vs Pakistan hardly have any knockout stage clash, where as the said derby has 19 such clashes including Final, Semifinal, Quarterfinals, for which it's more acceptable as derby. Again, the article that you mentioned is everything else but not a evidence of rivalry. I hope India and Pakistan will play often and that too in the highest championships and even knockout stages so that we can call it a derby or rivalry, but for now there is no evidence of rivalry, even after they play more group stage Saff championships matches, otherwise there will be thousand of such rivaly articles all over Wikipedia since every NTs have played such amount of matches with their neighbours. Drat8sub (talk) 14:54, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Derbi barceloni was to compare the lop sidedness of a derby and to show that such rivalries exist despite being one sided. They don't face in the continental events either. Also, comparing the number of games of an European club to Asian countries is unfair. Hardly any national teams face each other that often. Australia-South Korea have faced mere 28 games yet they see an independent page on rivalry, lot of friendlies and group stage encounters included. If it's because of the events they play in, then SAFF is also an official international competition. There have been instances of rivalries like the one I mentioned with a source. There are plenty of instances of Crossing the Divide, that you did not cover in your refutation. I don't see any reason to reject the rivalries just because they both are a weaker side and don't often play in continental level. It is unfair for the weaker national teams that want to grow. They deserve something interesting too. Footy2000 (talk) 06:38, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know your intentions are good here, but by saying "....unfair for the weaker national teams that want to grow. They deserve something interesting too", the argument aligning with WP:NOTNP, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:CRYSTAL. Wikipedia is not news and neither it is for promotion or expectation. To be included in as a wikipedia articles, we need established facts backed by WP:RS. India and Pakistan in near future will only going to face each other in Saff, India vs Pakistan friendly is a highly unlikely according to Vision 2047 of AIFF since India is likely to play better ranked team in friendlies, there is no diverse competitions in which they will likely face, so rivalry is a far cry to be established. You have taken example of Ausie-Korean rivalry, just check how many matches each have won, Aus-9..Kor-8, they are playing friendlies, they are facing each other in the continental knockouts, and likely to face in future too, that's a established rivalry. I don't see a similar scenerio here. Drat8sub (talk) 08:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- About those last few sentences, it is at the end of the day international level football. I did not mean in a way that 'they must be promoted' rather it was in a tone of how weaker teams are treated unfairly here just because they are lower ranked. These are actual countries and not some random lower division clubs. There's literally a source from the federation itself that demonstrates the rivalry. If you can assume India wouldn't be playing any friendlies with Pakistan in future, can we not assume they would likely face in an AFC Qualifier Competition? Also, about the Aus-Kor rivalry, it is used as an example to show how few national teams face each other unlike clubs. Yet the rivalry exists. Footy2000 (talk) 08:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know your intentions are good here, but by saying "....unfair for the weaker national teams that want to grow. They deserve something interesting too", the argument aligning with WP:NOTNP, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:CRYSTAL. Wikipedia is not news and neither it is for promotion or expectation. To be included in as a wikipedia articles, we need established facts backed by WP:RS. India and Pakistan in near future will only going to face each other in Saff, India vs Pakistan friendly is a highly unlikely according to Vision 2047 of AIFF since India is likely to play better ranked team in friendlies, there is no diverse competitions in which they will likely face, so rivalry is a far cry to be established. You have taken example of Ausie-Korean rivalry, just check how many matches each have won, Aus-9..Kor-8, they are playing friendlies, they are facing each other in the continental knockouts, and likely to face in future too, that's a established rivalry. I don't see a similar scenerio here. Drat8sub (talk) 08:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Derbi barceloni was to compare the lop sidedness of a derby and to show that such rivalries exist despite being one sided. They don't face in the continental events either. Also, comparing the number of games of an European club to Asian countries is unfair. Hardly any national teams face each other that often. Australia-South Korea have faced mere 28 games yet they see an independent page on rivalry, lot of friendlies and group stage encounters included. If it's because of the events they play in, then SAFF is also an official international competition. There have been instances of rivalries like the one I mentioned with a source. There are plenty of instances of Crossing the Divide, that you did not cover in your refutation. I don't see any reason to reject the rivalries just because they both are a weaker side and don't often play in continental level. It is unfair for the weaker national teams that want to grow. They deserve something interesting too. Footy2000 (talk) 06:38, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- I know you are one of the few people who are working on Indian football and NT related articles. But I must say, without these articles also, NT articles can be made a FA or GA, not necessary that you need to show a imaginary rivalry. India hardly face Pakistan in continental levels, not even continental quailification or Worldcup qualifications. By bringing comparison with Derbi Barceloni which is around 300 matches history to 25 matches itself making your point weak. Above that India vs Pakistan hardly have any knockout stage clash, where as the said derby has 19 such clashes including Final, Semifinal, Quarterfinals, for which it's more acceptable as derby. Again, the article that you mentioned is everything else but not a evidence of rivalry. I hope India and Pakistan will play often and that too in the highest championships and even knockout stages so that we can call it a derby or rivalry, but for now there is no evidence of rivalry, even after they play more group stage Saff championships matches, otherwise there will be thousand of such rivaly articles all over Wikipedia since every NTs have played such amount of matches with their neighbours. Drat8sub (talk) 14:54, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Notes from Pakistan: 'Aap haar-ke hi lautogey,' Tejinder recalls India's 1993 SAFF triumph". www.the-aiff.com. Retrieved 2023-05-18.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football, Pakistan, and India. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:24, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note: Please go through- similar article was previously created and was deleted on consensus. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/India–Pakistan Football Rivalry. Drat8sub (talk) 16:50, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as per previous AFD listed above. If the articles are substantially similar, WP:CSD#G4 may apply (would need admin to confirm). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete This is just a head to head, there is no prose to indicate a rivalry or any citation towards that. Govvy (talk) 17:01, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: the article itself basically spends half of the page talking about how no one cares about this rivalry Muur (talk) 02:54, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: There simply isn't a "rivalry" here Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:55, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 18:11, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 18:12, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per above. The person who loves reading (talk) 02:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.