Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Raymond Brownell

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The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Raymond Brownell[edit]

Promoted --Eurocopter (talk) 10:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator(s): Abraham, B.S. (talk)
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I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I believe it meets the criteria. Just fresh out of my sandbox, Brownell was a First World War flying ace and senior officer in the Royal Australian Air Force during the Second World War. Any and all comments welcome. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 13:29, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments - (this version)
    • On my screen I have an image sandwich in the "Second World War" section.
      • There is no sandwich on my screen, and the only real means of removing it from your screen woule be to remove one of the images, which I am not exactly in favour of.
        • No problem then—I just wanted to point it out. There's only about a two line overlap on my screen anyway.
    • References and sources look formatted right and appear reliable.
    • Location for Bernard and an more specific location for Page? ("Australia"?!? ;)
      • I think it is Oxford, England for Bernard, but I could only garner Australia for Page and I figured adding that was better than nothing. :)

Cheers Bryce, —Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 13:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Ed. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 13:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No prob! —Ed 17 (Talk / Contribs) 14:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments - another fine bio, well written, sourced and illustrated. A few points:

  • First World War:
    • As the battery landed on the peninsula, Brownell was instead transferred to Alexandria "where the army made use of his accountancy experience". I sort of get this, but the wording makes it sound like he got off the boat at Gallpoli and whoosh! was magically whisked back to Egypt again - can it be rephrased?
    • I think that means also that During July 1915, Brownell was shipped to Gallipoli... can become During July 1915, Brownell was again shipped to Gallipoli... or some such.
      • I don't think this is really necessary given the tweaking of the above, but will have another look if you disagree. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yep, fine to leave this bit as is now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Subject to severe shellfire, Brownell... Surely Brownie wasn't personally subject to the severe shellfire, he just copped it with the rest of his battery - rephrase?
    • During his time in England, Brownell participated in playing Australian rules football. This seems pretty trivial to me, I'm sure many soldiers participated in sport - I'd delete unless there's anything special we can say about it.
  • Second World War:
    • ...additional units were placed under Brownell's scope... Think "purview" or simply "command" is preferable to "scope".
      • I was racking my brain for a more suitable word than "scope" when I wrote this, but couldn't really come up with much off the top of my head. Have now substituted in favour of "purview". Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • ...and was an active player of cricket and tennis. Again, I realise ADB thinks this is somehow noteworthy but don't think we need to follow suit...
      • This was more added in order to add weight to the short sentence. Now removed. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • FWIW, Brownie was also nominated by the Federal Govt to attend the surrender ceremony on USS Missouri with MacArthur, Blamey, et al, but was replaced by CAS George Jones when it was found Jones could make the trip in time - can provide ref if you want to add.
  • Later life: Although you don't refer to it in the article, ADB mentions he was "Already nominated for early retirement" when he was retired on medical grounds. In fact he was one of the many (Williams, Goble, Bostock, McNamara, Anderson, Cole, Wrigley, Lukis, etc) WWI vets slated for dismissal to make way for the advancement of younger officers - again, ref available to work in.
    • I figured this ment he must have been among this crowd. As above, if you are willing and able that would be great. Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Ian. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • No prob - well done, as ever. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a great article on an interesting airman. My suggestions for further development are:
    • What accountancy work did Brownell do instead of going to Gallipoli?
      • Truthfully, I have no idea. None of the sources I have viewed state exactly what these duties involved. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • There's too much repetition of 'Brownell', with his name frequently being repeated in adjacent sentences in paras which only discuss him.
    • What's meant by "During this time, Brownell frequented the Malaya peninsula." - do you mean to say "During this time, Brownell frequently visited the Malaya peninsula", and what did he do during these visits?
      • Yep, that's the one. This sentence was longer, but the second part was more trivial than anything so was removed. I'm not sure what he did during these visits, but I'll have a look around to see if I can dig anything up. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The article implies that the build-up in Western Australia in early 1944 was initiated by Brownell - this isn't correct, as it was ordered by the Government in response to intelligence reports that a Japanese force was en-route to raid WA (I'd write an article on this if I could find a name for the incident, as it was a major operation - there's some coverage in Axis naval activity in Australian waters)
    • No. 11 Group RAAF commanded more than just the units on Morotai - there's a cited sentence on the other bases it operated from in the article on the group.
      • I was a bit skimpy in this area as I didn't really want a massive list of roles listed that the unit held, just the main/major ones. However, I have now added information about the unit's three main responsibilities.

Nick-D (talk) 23:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Nick. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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