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The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Pinoybandwagon[edit]

Suspected sockpuppeteer

Pinoybandwagon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets

Radiosmasher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Coolmacmac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Bf2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Fb2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Bad false (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Psychoangelo89 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)empty account, confirmed by checkuser

Report submission by

--Enric Naval (talk) 13:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

Summary: Pinoybandwagon made disruptive edits, and created Radiomasher to have a clean story, avoid blocking for continued disruptive editing, and name himself as an authority on philippine radio stations. He also used Radiomasher to continue requests he made as Pinoybandwagon. They edit the same philippine radio station articles, make similar article moves on the same topic, argue against the same user (Orangemike), comment on the same ANI and RFPP threads, use CAPS sparingly, make uncodicional requests of unprotection, claim they say things that are TRUE (with caps).

Pinoybandwagon has been trying to change the names of several Philippne radio stations.

On 20 march, he express his fears of being blocked [1]

He was warned by OrangeMike not to do that, and he said that he understood [2].

Pinoybandwagon asked for unprotection of the pages

On 27 March This led to this exchange on Pinoybandwagon's talk page [3]. Pinoy's comment I want the requests that I said to be UNPROTECTED QUICKLY (notice the caps).

The exchange finished at 10:33 27 March 2008

From 11:23 to 11:36 he make requests on CAPS for unprotection on talk pages of several philippine radio stations [4] [5] [6] [7] [8], and on the metro manila radio template [9], by posting "THIS PAGE SHOULD BE UNPROTECTED TOMORROW" (caps and uncondicional requests, this will be important later)

He also sings once as "retired username" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:DWRT-FM&diff=next&oldid=201298377 (no idea why)

At 11:49 Pinoybandwagon posts [10] "RADIO STATIONS ARE MOSTLY KNOWN FOR THE RADIO STATION NAME" (notice the caps). The comment gets signed as User:Retired_username.

Radiosmasher account was created on 14:27 [11], and he was welcomed by Pinoybandwagon at 16:05 [12], using a welcome message copy/pasted from MacMac account.

Let's digress about MacMac. MacMac is an account that only made a few edits on 23 March, all of them related to philippine radio stations [13] Notice his user page says "i make true articles" [14], compare it to Radiomasher's

After welcoming Radiosmasher, Pinoybandwagon made 2 more edits on 28 March, one of them being the request for unprotection of the radio stations [15] and has not edited since.

Now, let's talk about Radiosmasher.

At 2 minutes of age, Radiosmasher proceed to name himself the authority for naming convention of Philippine radio stations (I just reverted it) [16]

At 14:33, 6 minutes old, he starts making a comment on the ANI discussion started by Pinoybandwagon [17]

At 16:10, 2 hours old, on Orangemike's talk page, radiosmasher changed the direction of an ANI discussion on other user comment on Orangemike talk page [18] from #Orangemike (created by Pinoybandwagon) to #Philippine radio stations (also created by Pinoybandwagon).

From 16:10 to 16:23, Radiomasher makes the above change and posts on Orangemike page a copy of the radio station naming convention including the change that makes him as authority to consult [19]. Notice the use of "true" and the caps again.

16:15 copies the same altered text on ANI [20], on the discussion started by Pinoybandwagon

16:25, he completes the text started at 14:33 [21] "If you wanna tell me something about Radio Stations (I focus sometimes at US Radio Stations, but I often focus on Philippine Radio Stations), just give me a comment!". Let's remember that by now he has already named himself the wikipedia authority on philippine radio stations!

On 5:24 28 March he asks for unprotection of two philippine radio stations [22] that had had problems too with the name being changed on the way asked by Pinoy.

7:13-7:23 29 March [23] posts UNPROTECT THIS PAGE FOR THIS INSTANT (notice the caps again) on his request (at first, I confused those requests with the ones made by Pinoybandwagon)

On 28 March, he resorts to blocking menaces [24] ". If you move move the 95.1 Kiss FM article to DWKI, you will be blocked from editing in Wikipedia!", I scolded him for that on talk page and his talk page

On 30 March Radiosmasher changed the unprotection answer given by an admin (already reverted and warned) [25]

As I was writing this, he recreated this philippine radio station article that was duplicated with another one that was moved because of naming conventions (see the previous edits to see how he copy/pastes the whole article, then I asks for it to be speedy deleted, then someone redirects it to the "real" article) [26]. No explanation is given depite me saying how there are legal problems with his actions on his talk page [27]. He also replaced the "real" article with a redirect to the article he recreated [28], so the history is now on the redirection.

He answered my comment about threats of blocking, but he said nothing about the page move [29]. Notice again the use of caps and the "true" word.

Now he is claiming that the ANI thread about philippine radio stations doesn't apply to DZUR because it wasn't on that discussion [30] and complains with caps again [31]. Notice that the protection of DZUR was done by Orangemike on 26 March, before Radiosmasher was created [32]

Now I could make some diffs linking exactly which radio articles have exactly been edited by wich user on which dates, but I think there is already enough evidence for this case.

Please, undef block Radiosmaher for sock, and warn&block for a few days for Pinoybandwagon for continued disruptive edits, multiple socketry to avoid block, editing wikipedia policies for self-benefit without consensus, ignoring the rules on naming conventions, makings threats of block, re-creating deleted articles, ignoring warnings about legal problems caused by his edits, trying to change admin decisions on his favor, spamming RFPP, etc.

For Macmac I'm not sure if he is really a sock, or just an innocent bystander, obvious sock, name similar to names on Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Map_inc, undef block.

  • Bf2: He was the one adding the philippinees section on the naming conventions [33]. He posted last at 14:25 and at 14:29 Radiomasher updated himself as authority. He creates his page using caps for his name, and using the word "true" [34]. He also claims to make "70% True Articles *30% False Articles". He claims to belong a philippine tv network that is owner of philipine radio stations called GMA_Network. AS an example of his edits, he re-creates a moved philippine radio article [35] after Orangemike moves the page. Pinoybandwagon then recreates the article after Orangemike changes it again to a redirect [36]. Undef block also for him for obvious sock.
Comments

Do you wanna know the truth? I'll prove you that I am not the a sock puppet of Pinoybandwagon.

  1. Macmac manages the following accounts User:Djbomb, User:Dm955, User:Coolmac , User:False man, User:Pinoybandwagon and User:Coolmacmac.
  2. Since Macmac did not use the User:Pinoybandwagon, he gave it to Daryl Martinez even if the User:Pinoybandwagon is still a sock puppet of User:Map inc.
  3. I am not really one of the sock puppets. I am not really a sock pocket of Pinoybandwagon or sock pocket of Map inc.

Radiosmasher (talk) 14:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, let me get this straight, you are one of several philippine guys, all editing from different accounts, knowing each other on real life? --Enric Naval (talk) 14:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And, how many of those radio station articles are hoaxes? --Enric Naval (talk) 14:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is this sockpuppetry/account trading admission relevant? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's relevant to Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Map_inc, where Pinoybandwagon is claimed a sock of Map inc. Pinoybandwagon was blocked on June 2007 per this case, and re-created on August 2007 [37] --Enric Naval (talk) 14:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, it's the same claim that Radiosmasher makes about his account. That it belonged to someone that had socks, but he got it passed to him, and now he is using it correctly and should not be blocked for past misbehaviour. Seeing this evidence, radiomasher's excuse is plainly not believable, since the sock puppet case was closed on June 2007, and his account is 3 days old. Moreover, it's inconsistent, since Radiomasher claims to have obtained the account directly from the guy behind Map inc. --Enric Naval (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I say to check those radio articles where only this network of socks was involved, and delete all articles that have no evidence for their existance, for most are probably hoaxes, seeing the comments on the former sock case.
  • How about banning the whole network of socks for repeated violation of WP:SOCK and evasion of block? --Enric Naval (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anyone can translate this? [38]. This starts to look like a meatpuppet network --Enric Naval (talk) 15:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • lol at this slip of tongue, done right after I opened the case [39]. It appears that he saw the notice, then he denied being a sock of Map inc before reading the actual accusation (lol at implied guiltness), then he opened the case, realized his mistake, and updated the notice to deny being a sock of Poneybandwagon --Enric Naval (talk) 15:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • radiomasher is now removing links from Poneybandwagon to Map inc [40] hey, wait, he is *adding* them to the archived case, wtf?. Damn, and some of my arguments are based on that list, goddammit. Is he trying to save his account by making the other accounts be guilty??! --Enric Naval (talk) 15:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The truth is: User:Radiosmasher is not one of the suspected sock pockets. User:Radiosmasher is independent. Bf2 (talk) 08:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have to convince the admins that will review the case about this. Please don't change the lists of socks. I opened the case for those accounts and provided the evidence, you can now provide counter-evidence and reason to convince the admins of radiosmasher's innocence. As i have said above, that claim is simply not credible, seeing the excuse he made, the similarity of that excuse to an excuse by Poneybandwagon, the similarities on edits, the changes to Map inc sockpuppetry case (that he shouldn't have done), and also the claims of independence are seriously undermined by his first reaction of denying being a sock of someone that I had never even head about until Delicious Carbuncle linked it here. Also notice how WP:SOCK talks about recruiting people to help on reverts, etc, which would still apply even if he was a different person. However, all this will be decided by an admin after looking at evidence, not by me, so I suggest that you actually provide proof here of your claims for admins to check --Enric Naval (talk) 09:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Si Pinoybandwagon hindi Poneybandwagon!! PINOYBANDWAGON SIYA!! Bf2 (talk) 12:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The admins will understand you better if you explain yourself on english --Enric Naval (talk) 14:13, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on hoaxes: It is practically impossible to determine the radio stations if they are truthful or not, especially if the originate outside Metro Manila since most of the time, these stations won't have web sites or citations in web-published articles. --Howard the Duck 11:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You mean that there isn't even a central government authority like philipine version of FCC listing all licensed radio stations? Well, damn :( --Enric Naval (talk) 14:13, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there is an equivalent of the FCC here in the Philippines: the National Telecommunications Commission. They have provided a list of radio and TV stations at their official website but it is so outdated. The list is "as of June 2000". -Danngarcia (talk) 15:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, at least we can check the stations older than 2000. That's better than nothing. I don't want to delete radio stations that actually exist, so I don't want to delete without a RS source supporting the deletion, even if the users creating the articles have a history of creating some hoaxes along with real articles. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The truth is: I did not really create Radiosmasher. Pinoybandwagon (talk) 14:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is silly [41]. It's plain obvious that it's a network of users helping each other on avoiding compliance of wikipedia naming conventions policy, and working together. I'm bringing Bf2 to WP:ANI over relation with banned sock and unrelated stuff --Enric Naval (talk) 16:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Adding Fb2, he added the hoax radio stations at the Metro Manila template. Map inc and socks got blocked for creating this station among other problems, notice obvious similarity to Bf2 user name --Enric Naval (talk) 16:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment at this point I advocate for indef block or even ban of all users except Radiosmasher, who has shown some redeeming behaviour, and could be left under probation ot improve philippine radio articles --Enric Naval (talk) 17:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Checkuser

 Confirmed

  1. Pinoybandwagon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
  2. Radiosmasher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
  3. Coolmacmac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
  4. Bf2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
  5. Fb2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
  6. Bad false (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
  7. Psychoangelo89 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

 Likely

  1. Gambler99 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Thatcher 20:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Gambler99 evidence: his contribution history doesn't fit at all the pattern of the other socks, so it's most probably a false positive from a user living also at Philipines. Thanks for checkuser, Thatcher --Enric Naval (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Conclusions

All blocked except Gambler99. Main accoungt can be unblocked when user agrees to play by the rules and stops uploading copyvios and acceptable articles. Spartaz Humbug! 06:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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