Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 January 18

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January 18

Bread Rising Problems

A quick query about bread, my dad and I are trying to become amateur bakers in our spare time. We've tried several different recipes, the most recent of which is posted below, for bread, but we can't seem to make it rise. The recipe was:

1 package active dry yeast

1/4 cup warm (110 degeres) water

1 cup whole wheat flour

1/4 cup brown sugar

3 cups rye flour

1 tablespoon salt

Enough hot water to create a stiff batter.

We tried making it twice, the second time with two packets of yeast, giving time for the yeast to rise, and giving time for the bread itself to rise. Neither time worked; does anyone have any insight as to why this might be happening? —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMGTANGERINES (talk • contribs) 03:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Our yeast article says

"Yeasts will grow over a temperature range 10 °C (50 °F) to 37 °C (99 °F), with an optimal temperature range of 30 °C (86 °F) to 37 °C (99 °F), depending on the type of species (S. cerevisiae works best at about 30 °C (86 °F). Above 37 °C (99 °F) yeast cells become stressed and will not divide properly".

If your water is at 110°F you may be harming your chances. I'd also be a little concerned about the amount of salt - salt slows down the division process. However salt is a matter of taste, and I give no advice one way or another as to whether that's too much (though I tend to think it is too much). Additional tip: dissolve the sugar in hot (but not too hot) water first, then add the yeast to the solution and leave it whilst you get the rest of the ingredients together, as a means of ensuring the best access to sugar by the said yeast. Good luck. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try that! -OMGTANGERINES —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMGTANGERINES (talk • contribs) 05:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd suggest that you look at a number of other recipes. You can find them on the internet. The one you have here specifies far more sugar and salt than most recipes do. Also, rye bread is not the easiest to start with as a beginner. One with a mix of white wheat flour and wholewheat flour would be better to experiment with. When you have the hang of it you can start adding a proportion of rye flour, and I'd still recommend to use more wheat than rye. A really wonderful book if you want to become experts is Elizabeth David's English Bread and Yeast Cookery. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:17, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I would generally recommend instant yeast rather than active dry yeast. Instant yeast does not require proofing in warm water. It can be added to the dry ingredients, and you can use cold or room-temperature water. -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The bread rises because the yeast (being a living thing) starts metabolising and produces CO2 - the CO2 bubbles make the bread rise. So this is all about making sure the yeast stays alive and happy until you bake the bread. My wife (who is pretty good at baking bread) tells me that it's important that the yeast is fairly fresh. It's a living organism - so yeast that's been sitting in your cupboard for a year isn't going to work as well as stuff you bought yesterday. She disagrees with Coneslayer and say's that it's important to mix it in warm water...again, these are living things and need to be treated carefully. (Right up to the point when you put them into the oven and murder them all in the searing heat!) SteveBaker (talk) 13:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The above shows the truth of how it is best to ask a Baker for information about baking. Edison (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I feel so...typecast. SteveBaker (talk) 01:41, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

He uses his loaf to make dough. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:33, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Instant yeast and active dry yeast can both work fine in my experience. Check the best-before date and follow the instructions on the packet. (If you're lucky you might even get a bread recipe on the packet.) I also sometimes use fresh baker's yeast (compressed yeast) that I can get for a few pence at the supermarket bakery counter (UK). Again you need to make sure it is fresh, and you need a recipe that tells you how much to use. Happy baking! Itsmejudith (talk) 15:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I have checked a number of kitchen thermometers and found them to be quite inaccurate. So your "110 deg F" thermometer might be reporting the temperature a few degrees lower than the actual temperature, which could discourage yeast growth. Some thermometers can be checked with boiling and freezing water. The small mass of water compared to the other ingredients means that the temperature of the dough may vary. An accurate thermometer is needed to make sure that the dough rises for a lengthy period in a chamber of the right temperature. By experimentation, I have found that my over-the-range microwave with the over-the-range light bulbs left on yields an appropriate temperature for yeast to make the bread rise. My bread machine similarly provides the right temperature for yeast. Edison (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not much of a baker, but I do recall while in Colorado, the baking instructions were different because of High_altitude_cooking. Cheers, --i am the kwisatz haderach (talk) 21:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

pins for current disaster

I saw on the Golden Globe Awards the participants wore ribbons. What were the colors? By any chance will there be awareness pins for the Haiti relief efforts? Will there also be ribbons like the ones at the Golden Globe Awards available with proceeds going to the disaster relief? Where can I find those types of things?24.90.204.234 (talk) 04:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

According to this page, the pins were red, yellow (sic), and blue, like the flag of Haiti (which contains no yellow). I don't know where you can get them from, though. Marnanel (talk) 16:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

(Is there anyone not living in a cave who needs their "awareness" of Haiti and its relief efforts raised? --Mr.98 (talk) 20:32, 18 January 2010 (UTC))

Non-Western areas most likely have far less knowledge of what is going on, but as far as I know, those pins are not heavily marketed in Bhutan, or Chad. Googlemeister (talk) 21:01, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Pin-wearing has little to do with awareness and much to do with conformity, making a statement and being a team player. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 13:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Prison

It si often portrayed in movies and such that when one goes to prison you need to protect yourself from various assaults, hence prisoners make shaks and such like. What I would like to know is A. How much more likely is opne to get stabbed or killed in prison thatn in civilian life and B. If one is forced to protect oneself are crimes in prison investigated by the police as with crimes in civilian life, or is there some other process, C. If one needs to kill other prisoners while in prison in order to survive, what is the percentage rate of people that are sent to prison that do eventually get released D. Is it plausible to say that one might go to prison for a minor infraction, and never be realeased due to situations that arrise in prison. E. what is the average amount of time spent in prison, eg. Bob steals a chocolate, gets sentanced to 1 year, but could get out in 6months with good behavior, but due to stabbing another prisoner, gets 5 years added, in that time he is caught with contraband and gets a further 2 years and thus spend lets say 5years in prison for esentially stealing a chocolate. F. What percentage of people die in prison, eg Bob shoot a burgalar and gets 2 years, he is a family man with a wife an 2.5 kids, but dies in prison. The country does not matter as I am just curious, and hence this is not a legal question, I just want to know, I doubt I will ever be in this position as I am a well balanced member of society. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 08:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

You say that the country doesn't matter but to a certain extent, it does. I'm willing to bet that a prisoner's welfare is quite different when comparing, for example, an American, German, or British (sorry if "British" is the wrong term) prison to a North Korean or Kenyan prison. And this difference would skew the numbers you're looking for quite dramatically. That being said, I think you might be overlooking a couple points. First, when you watch a movie or a TV show you have to remember that you're watching a work of fiction. Things need to happen to move the story forward or build drama. The stories are rarely true to life. Second, using your chocolate thief as an example, such a person would be put into a minimum security prison where the prisoners aren't quite hardened criminals. There are more people that are getting out in just a couple of months and it's not likely for anyone to be in there for much more than petty assaults and definitely not anyone who is in for murder. So, why would they need to stab anyone and get that additional five years? Dismas|^(talk) 09:47, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Dismas, you are allowed to say "British". It isn't a rude word. It's just that it's used inaccurately from time to time - like "American" in fact. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:30, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

In this case British is not only allowed, but correct, if you intended it to mean a prison in the United Kingdom. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a similar question here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Death_rates_in_prisons 78.146.95.197 (talk) 11:11, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

See also prison sexuality and prison gangs (rather US biased articles).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

A. Relative likelihoods of being stabbed vary too much to quantify e.g. Low probability in a closely monitored prison contra High probability in a poor inner-city area, or High probability in a badly overcrowded prison contra Low probability in a genteel neighbourhood. B. The prison service in most cases investigate and testify to a court about incidents in prison that have no outside connections, about which police should be informed. Court hearings can be held in a prison. C. The question contains a non sequitur: "need to kill other prisoners to survive" is an unproven claim. The information that seems to be wanted is the percentage of prisoners that die in prison (I don't know). D. Yes, it's plausible in many ways. One might die of a disease a week after entering prison. E. The average time spent in prison has a numeric answer (I don't know it). The example that is added "Bob steals..." is just gratuitous sensationalism. F. Seeks the same information as question C. The example that is added "Bob shoot[sic] is more gratuitous sensationalism. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:57, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

For a little view of life in UK prisons, try this article. It says things like "predatory homosexuality is as rare in British prisons as malt whisky, in fact in some prisons it's a great deal rarer. There's probably more chance of you being raped or sexually assaulted 'outside' than in here." and "In my experience there's far less random violence in prison than in wider society. I was in an adult long-term prison at 19, and the only time I've ever been attacked it was by the screws." It is possible that prisons in other countries are very different, so you'd have to research each country in turn. 86.183.83.191 (talk) 16:53, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I wouldlime to know the answerto C, what percentage of people sent to prison, get released. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 16:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I dispute one item of what Cuddlyable3 says - neighbourhood of a prison isn't significant, since a) prisoners aren't generally sent to a prison in their neighbourhood b) the contact between a neighbourhood and a prison in it is minimal What is significant is the security level of the prison. There is a whole world of difference between a minimum security prison and a maximum security prison. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:59, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

@DJ Clayworth you are entirely right and I should have been clearer. My reply to Question A compared relative likelihoods of being stabbed in prison or civilian areas, with examples to show that the imbalance could swing either way. I was not trying to link any prison to its own neighbourhood. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

On question F) the percentage of people who die in prison is relatively low. In Western countries outside of the USA, there is no death penalty, and even life sentences in the vast majority of cases really mean something like 20 years. Inmates are generally taken from a younger segment of society, so death from age-related causes in prisons is rare. As stated above, the problem of prison violence is less severe than portrayed in movies and such. Prisoners' health is looked after by the State, any deaths in custody must be investigated, etc, meaning there are a number of factors in favor of prisoners finishing their sentences and getting out. I would assume that that number is well over 95% in those countries, but I'm sure studies must exist somewhere. In the USA, there are some negative factors, including the existence death penalty (which, in percentage terms, barely registers as a statistical blip) and more rigid sentencing for serious offenses, but this article says the death rate in prison is still lower than in the general population. So, to summarize, the overwhelming majority of persons entering prison will eventually be released. --Xuxl (talk) 18:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Prison scrubs in the courtroom

Resolved

In a recent CSI: NY, the defendant was brought into the courtroom in orange jumpsuit scrubs and handcuffs -- I thought this wasn't allowed, so as not to serve as a visual illusion to the court that the defendant appears to be a criminal before the proceedings even get underway. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 15:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Counsel can object to the way a defendant is presented and the Judge will rule on the matter. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:01, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, I overlooked that this was the hearing prior to the court case, so perhaps, if there is no jury, there is no potential harm. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 16:38, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. Almost never allowed at trial, but at pre-trial issues without a jury, it's pretty standard. Shadowjams (talk) 08:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

how can i get my pictures from Kiddie Kandids now that they are chapter 7

now that Kiddie Kandids is in Chapter 7, I doubt that I will get my pictures. and it will be double blow if I can't at least get them in digital form. how do I go about attempting to get my pictures?!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saxetnella (talk • contribs) 18:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Here is an article about a few parents racing into the store back on January 12 to get copies of the digital files before the corporate servers were shut down. That article has an irate quote from the Better Business Bureau in Utah; maybe you could contact them and ask if they've found any solution. This article from the Salt Lake Tribune says that "Customers who ordered photos from the company appear to be out of their money and photos", but the lazy reporter did not explain this. Under normal circumstances he'd be right; somewhere there is a hard disk with your photos, and it's going to get sold at a bankruptcy auction to the highest bidder, who will then possess the thousands of digital photos with no obligation to the customers. The hard disk might then get reformatted, or maybe the buyer, if unscrupulous, might claim copyright on all the photos and sell them all to a stock photo agency — who knows. It's a shame. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:12, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

(They probably can't claim copyright on the photos just because they got the hard drives at an auction—authorship rights are probably not being auctioned off, and physical ownership is not copyright ownership. They can't sell photos to a stock photo agency without a model release unless they want to get into a lot of trouble.) --Mr.98 (talk) 20:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think much more should be said here on the subject, since I think this gets dangerously close to legal advice territory. The trustee in the case might be able to be a point of reference, but then again he/she might also decide to not answer any questions. We might direct you to our Bankruptcy article, or better yet, perhaps to a local legal aid or bar association. Shadowjams (talk) 08:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Pie thingy looks like a bird

Is there a name for those little china birds which one puts in a pie to hold the crust up and vent steam? DuncanHill (talk) 23:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Pie bird. Marnanel (talk) 23:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Fabulous, thank you. Far too obvious a name for the likes of me! DuncanHill (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Not many pies would fit four and twenty blackbirds: see Sing a Song of Sixpence. BrainyBabe (talk) 11:43, 20 January 2010 (UTC)