Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 September 28
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September 28[edit]
Why are people risking their lives to get to the UK?[edit]
Whether it would be migrants from the other side of the world hiding in refrigerator lorry where they sometimes die from overheating or the more well known crossings of the English Channel by migrants from the infamous Calais Jungle over the past few years during which many have drowned including unaccompanied minors, it is clear that numerous migrants/refugees/asylum seekers have been risking their lives to get to the United Kingdom, passing through multiple developed countries to do so. What is motivating them to do this? What is so great about the UK that makes it a prime target for asylum shopping? Do these migrants even apply for asylum or refugee status and get included in the official statistics? Why do they choose a country that has zero-hour contract and widely believed to have committed economic suicide with Brexit over others in the EU like France, Belgium, or the Netherlands? Even if they think the UK is a great first-world country of the Anglo-Saxon economic model compared to socialist France, would something like that be enough to motivate them to risk so much for economic opportunity? StellarHalo (talk) 08:10, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- You're not the first person to ask this question, and you won't be the last. There are plenty of answers out there, e.g. [1] [2] [3] [4] --Viennese Waltz 10:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- It is a hood question but all of the above links are to The Guardian surely there must be other views on the subject rather than the politically charges views displayed in the links provided? Thanks86.150.105.98 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:42, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- You're welcome to do your own research on this topic until you find an answer that accords with your prejudices. --Viennese Waltz 14:00, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- It is a hood question but all of the above links are to The Guardian surely there must be other views on the subject rather than the politically charges views displayed in the links provided? Thanks86.150.105.98 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:42, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- The short short answer is "it's worth it given the absolutely horrifying conditions where they are coming from". --Jayron32 18:44, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Obviously people want to see the famous 123-metre spire of Salisbury Cathedral. I know I'd risk my life to see it. But only if there's free parking nearby. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- This is presumably a reference to the outlandish claims made by the suspects in the Skripal case as to the reasons why they were in Salisbury. It is obscure and irrelevant, and you should not have posted it. --Viennese Waltz 21:20, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- I am not asking why they are leaving their countries of origin. I am asking why they are risking their lives to reach a faraway country like the UK rather than stay in France or other safe countries they have already arrived in. The Calais Jungle only exists because people in it want to reach the UK. I easily see why they would think that Europe is better than Turkey but the UK compared to the rest on Europe, on the other hand, has no clear advantage that would make anyone risk drowning. StellarHalo (talk) 00:37, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Please read the links I posted above. Many of them do stay in France, Germany and other countries and apply for asylum there. Only a small minority try and reach the UK. --Viennese Waltz 06:47, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- I already did. But, that does not change the fact that quite a significant amount of people still have been trying to reach the UK obviously without authorization from the British government and using extremely dangerous methods for years regardless. A lot of people have perished in many such attempts and the media talks about this and the notorious Calais Jungle whenever someone dies. Of course, Wikipedia has multiple articles on those even including the Essex lorry deaths. What I want to know are the reasons for why are they doing this. What makes the UK so special in their hope and dreams? StellarHalo (talk) 07:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- It's a country with a good economy and a good standard of living. Places like that attract immigrants from places that don't have good economies and good standards of living. --Jayron32 11:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Better than the rest of Europe to the point where it is worth risking lives and limbs crossing the English Channel for? StellarHalo (talk) 12:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- It's a country with a good economy and a good standard of living. Places like that attract immigrants from places that don't have good economies and good standards of living. --Jayron32 11:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- I already did. But, that does not change the fact that quite a significant amount of people still have been trying to reach the UK obviously without authorization from the British government and using extremely dangerous methods for years regardless. A lot of people have perished in many such attempts and the media talks about this and the notorious Calais Jungle whenever someone dies. Of course, Wikipedia has multiple articles on those even including the Essex lorry deaths. What I want to know are the reasons for why are they doing this. What makes the UK so special in their hope and dreams? StellarHalo (talk) 07:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Please read the links I posted above. Many of them do stay in France, Germany and other countries and apply for asylum there. Only a small minority try and reach the UK. --Viennese Waltz 06:47, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Obviously people want to see the famous 123-metre spire of Salisbury Cathedral. I know I'd risk my life to see it. But only if there's free parking nearby. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe some only speak English and Urdu or something. Lots of French and Arabic bilinguists stop in France which has more migrants than England I think. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:23, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Language is definitely an issue. Imaging having to pick up your life in a country where you don't know a word of the local language. But surprisingly many of those aiming for the UK have relatives there. But the major issue is that the continental European countries are united in their efforts to make it as hard as possible for asylum seekers to obtain a legal status and start getting a life back. Many end up in an endless and hopeless limbo of being an un-person, not being allowed to have a bank account, seek work, rent a place to live, get medical insurance, drive a car, get married, and so on. --Lambiam 22:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Could you elaborate on the "not being allowed to have a bank account" part? StellarHalo (talk) 07:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- You wouldn't be able to supply the documents necessary to open a bank account. For example, I haven't opened one for years but here in Canada I would expect them to require proof of my name and address (so they can contact me), my date of birth (for various reasons), and my Social Insurance Number (so they can report on me to the tax people). And if the address wasn't in Canada they might either disallow the account or require more documentation. --174.89.48.182 (talk) 19:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- It's not just immigrants. If your parents didn't register your birth you have a problem [5], [6]. 95.148.1.191 (talk) 14:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
- You wouldn't be able to supply the documents necessary to open a bank account. For example, I haven't opened one for years but here in Canada I would expect them to require proof of my name and address (so they can contact me), my date of birth (for various reasons), and my Social Insurance Number (so they can report on me to the tax people). And if the address wasn't in Canada they might either disallow the account or require more documentation. --174.89.48.182 (talk) 19:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
- Could you elaborate on the "not being allowed to have a bank account" part? StellarHalo (talk) 07:48, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
- Language is definitely an issue. Imaging having to pick up your life in a country where you don't know a word of the local language. But surprisingly many of those aiming for the UK have relatives there. But the major issue is that the continental European countries are united in their efforts to make it as hard as possible for asylum seekers to obtain a legal status and start getting a life back. Many end up in an endless and hopeless limbo of being an un-person, not being allowed to have a bank account, seek work, rent a place to live, get medical insurance, drive a car, get married, and so on. --Lambiam 22:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
How does Wikiversity work? I have just seen this for the first time today and would love to do the course https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Human_Legacy_Course How do you sign up? Do you receive a certificate at the end? How are exams taken? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.105.98 (talk) 15:32, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Not sure you need to sign up. Click on the link for the first lesson under "Semester 1" and then the "Let's Begin" link will take you to the first lecture. RudolfRed (talk) 18:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
- Registration (or creating a Wikiversity account) is optional. There is a Wikiversity: Help desk. If the courses were accredited, the Wikiversity article would certainly mention that (it doesn't). 2606:A000:1126:28D:8412:8A31:FDD4:63AF (talk) 21:24, 28 September 2020 (UTC)