Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 3

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December 3[edit]

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on December 3, 2021.

Iso[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to ISO (disambiguation). (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 00:17, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been retargeted to Iso (disambiguation) and International Organization for Standardization several times over the years so I would like to gather consensus for one of these targets. My opinion is that it should be the disambiguation page per WP:SMALLDETAILS - nobody is referring to the ISO in lowercase, and iso in lowercase can refer to many unrelated things. eviolite (talk) 23:43, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Lack of sense of responsibility of psychopaths[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 9#Lack of sense of responsibility of psychopaths

Indifference to others' suffering[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. While the subject may relate to the target, it is vague and may relate to other targets too. It is not a likely search candidate or a term of reference. Jay (talk) 09:32, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

delete, very unlikely search term. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:57, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete or find another home for it. It doesn't necessarily refer to psychopathy and is not always permanent. It may also refer to apathy, desensitization, or caring very little for or not at all when the other's suffering concerns someone the person strongly dislikes or hates. It's also not as popular a search term as something like "psychopathy", "sociopathy", "apathy", and from there onward. It's not even a term. GBFEE (talk) 19:45, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because it does necessarily and specifically refer [relate] to psychopathy [Empathy#Psychopathy]. General apathy and desensitization could refer to almost anything, while this term specifically refers [relates] to indifference to the suffering of others, which is directly and specifically related to psychopathy [Empathy#Psychopathy]. (In other words, the redirect isn't talking about general indifference, but the specific indifference to the suffering of others...) Huggums537 (talk) 06:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Huggums537, would you provide academic resources stating very clearly that "indifference to others' suffering" does necessarily and specifically refer to psychopathy? You make this assertion, and yet even searching the term shows that it does not. Over my lifetime, I have witnessed the term used to refer to sociopathy, apathy, desensitization, and from there onward in addition to psychopathy. It is also worth mentioning that there is no psychiatric or psychological diagnosis called "psychopathy". If not apparent, I'm asking for resources that say what you've claimed here, not for resources that say psychopathy or antisocial personality disorder involves or includes indifference to others' suffering, or that psychopaths are indifferent to others' suffering. GBFEE (talk) 19:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Empathy is a range, a continuum. Some people have it more than others (as not everyone falls under the "empath" category), and different things can lead people to being indifferent to others' suffering, though usually not permanently. If you are so certain that "indifference to others' suffering" does necessarily and specifically refer to psychopathy, then why don't you propose to have the term redirect to the psychopathy article and expand on it there with appropriate resources? GBFEE (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
1) I'm not adding any material to an article, so I'm not required to provide a source for any claims you think I have made. However, I will indulge you this time, but I will ignore your demand for the sources to be strictly academic as I will also ignore your demand to exclude any sources showing they are related because my claim can and will be easily modified to support the idea I had behind it: [1], [2], [3], [4], just to name a few. 2) Just because you searched Google for a very general term and it didn't produce a very specific result doesn't prove anything. 3) You contradict yourself because before you said the redirect is "...not even a term", and now you say over your lifetime you have seen it used to refer to many things even "...in addition to psychopathy". 4) If you are so certain that "indifference to others' suffering" does necessarily and specifically refer to psychopathy, then why don't you propose to have the term redirect to the psychopathy article and expand on it there with appropriate resources? Because I'm not saying the term is ball and chained to psychopathy. That would be unreasonable. Of course indifference to the suffering of others is something anyone could experience absent of any psychopathy, because like you said, empathy is a range some have more than others temporarily, but that isn't the point. The point is that indifference to the suffering of others is not something anyone can experience without being tied ball and chain to specifically the Empathy article, and the best place to target it to is the psychopathy section. Huggums537 (talk) 02:51, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you think Empathy#Practical_issues would be a better fit? Huggums537 (talk) 03:06, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Huggums537, I reject you saying I made a demand. It's not a demand to ask if you would provide academic resources supporting what you say. None of those resources support what you originally said, which is that "indifference to others' suffering" does necessarily and specifically refer to psychopathy. If you remember, I said I'm asking for resources that say what you've claimed here, not for resources that say psychopathy or antisocial personality disorder involves or includes indifference to others' suffering, or that psychopaths are indifferent to others' suffering. You altered what you said and are now arguing "relates to", which is not what I argued against. I named different topics, including psychopathy, that relate to indifference to others' suffering. Academic resources are important for medical topics. Academic resources for academic topics is natural and should be your preference when searching for resources to support things pertaining to those topics. So random resources like neurologystatus.ru and mentalhealth.com aren't sufficient. This isn't about searching Google for a very general term and it not producing a very specific result. Searching the term does, however, corroborate what I've said. I didn't contradict myself by saying "yet even searching the term." It still isn't technically a term. But when the proposal to delete it and the person you're arguing with about it are referring to it as a term, it's natural to also do so in the same discussion. I can refer to it as a phrase, if you'd like, which I did think about doing. You made an argument that essentially said Empathy#Psychopathy is the primary topic for indifference to others' suffering. I disagree with that. If the redirect is kept or deleted, I won't care. I saw the listing from Talk:Empathy and chose to comment, offering my knowledge. The community can decide what they want on this, and I'll lose no sleep over it. GBFEE (talk) 19:55, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. And, if you want me to be wrong about what I originally stated, then that's fine too. The only thing I need to prove is that the term is closely related enough to Empathy#Psychopathy for us to keep it, and I think the sources I provided have done that. Huggums537 (talk) 20:06, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 23:30, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Ian Hawke[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to List of Alvin and the Chipmunks characters#Ian Hawke. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 22:35, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The target article when using ctrl-f does not have any reference to the name Ian Hawke, Ian, or Hawke. Not really sure why the redirect exists. Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that's a better retarget than the one I initially proposed. I'll strike my target and endorse yours. snood1205(Say Hi! (talk)) 13:33, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wikipedia:PTR[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 10#Wikipedia:PTR

PKP Pecheneg[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was procedural close. Per Jay, this will need to be a requested move. -- Tavix (talk) 03:34, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposing deletion of this redirect, so that the article can be moved to this title, as the fact it is the PKP Pecheneg, not just the Pecheneg, means that specifying it is the PKP Pecheneg machine gun is unnecessary - there is no other PKP Pecheneg that it needs to be distinguished from. Loafiewa (talk) 18:43, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Your new project[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. Jay (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this redirect was made by accident and should be deleted. The original link to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Your_new_project can be found on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide/WikiProject#Create_a_project_page. Ruthgrace (talk) 17:24, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Category:Unnumbered minor planets[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 11#Category:Unnumbered minor planets

Naïvité[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 10#Naïvité

Troom Troom[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. Jay (talk) 09:45, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that this redirect is particularly helpful. Troom Troom is a different channel from 5 minute crafts, and is run by a different company. There is no mention of Troom Troom in the target article. 192.76.8.80 (talk) 09:09, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. This article makes it quite clear Troom Troom is not related to 5 minute crafts Zeon says Troom Troom is independently owned [...] I was easily able to find detailed Facebook and LinkedIn accounts that matched the name on his later emails, which leads me to believe that Zeon is, indeed, a real person. and The origins of 5-Minute Crafts are, for what it’s worth, far less mysterious. 5-Minute Crafts is owned by TheSoul Publishing. It seems like if Troom Troom were owned by TheSoul it would be less hard to find. Deletion also will allow for article creation if Troom Troom achieves notability, but it does not work as a redirect. snood1205(Say Hi! (talk)) 02:03, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as misleading --Lenticel (talk) 01:17, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wolf (upcoming film)[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 10#Wolf (upcoming film)

Zana massacre[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 10#Zana massacre

Adi’Zeban Karagiorgis massacre[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 15#Adi’Zeban Karagiorgis massacre

Dekera massacre[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 10#Dekera massacre

MediaTek Camera Application[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was soft delete. -- Tavix (talk) 20:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or change to appropriate target (if it exists) as it is not mentioned at all at the target page (target page basically only talks about the company in terms of its CPU manufacturing) ― Blaze The WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 17:27, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 21:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:51, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

F. W.[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to FW. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 00:17, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this page should redirect to FW, which seems to be a more suitable target for people wikilinking to "F.W." It would also make it possible to remove the hatnote at F. W. de Klerk, thereby making the page cleaner. JBchrch talk 18:24, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. F. W. de Klerk is the only notable topic that appears on the first four pages of google searches for "F. W.", making them unquestionably the primary topic. Removing hatnotes is not something that should ever be a goal it its own right. Thryduulf (talk) 19:37, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do not get the same results at all. The majority of my results are related to F.W. Webb Company. And I think it's pretty clear from my proposal that I do not regard removing hat notes as a "goal it its own right"... JBchrch talk 19:48, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Interesting, F.W. Webb Company doesn't appear in my search results until the penultimate spot on page 10, well below plumbers, builders merchants, a funeral home in Great Malvern (I'm in London, a little over a 100 miles away as the crow flies), dictionary definitions, stone masons, serial numbers (for dishwashers, disco lights, "sensor heads" and inkjet printers), even the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources. Hits related to F.W. de Klerk are in the majority of every page (except 1 and 7, where no one thing is in a majority). Thryduulf (talk) 20:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget to the disambiguation page. Anything abbreviated "FW" is pendantically spelled as "F. W." if you follow traditional grammar rules -- 65.92.246.43 (talk) 01:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 10:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

William Taylor(Nights: Journey of Dreams)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 05:21, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Back when Will had an article in June-July 2008, the page was at this title for nearly a month before it was moved to the correctly formatted title, then that was redirected to the current target less than a week later. I don't really see why we should keep this WP:UNNATURALly formatted title that isn't used much when the correct one exists. Regards, SONIC678 00:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Unused redirect with a malformed title. CycloneYoris talk! 00:37, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Tivetshall[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was moot. Redirect has been converted to an article. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 00:15, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This redirect needs to be deleted, entirely my fault, i meant to merge, and for some reason, i moved it, so i moved it back, and now tivetshall redirects to tivetshall st margaret, when the two tivetshalls really should be merged, sorry for wasting your time. Erik Sergeant (talk) 11:57, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • It should be an article about the civil parish that was formed from Tivetshall St Margaret and Tivetshall St Mary in 2019 but I'm fine with deleting so that it shows up as a red link. Prior to the CP formed it could have perhaps have been a set index listing the 2 villages and Tivetshall railway station but now that a CP exists with that name an article would be more appropriate. The 2 village/former CP articles shouldn't be merged as defunct divisions remain notable. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:05, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps use it as a disambiguation page, leading to both articles. Erik Sergeant (talk) 13:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 03:45, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Convert to article. Draft provided. Deletion would be unhelpful and create unnecessary redlinks. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:59, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, I've expanded it. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Question Team[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 11#Question Team

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