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Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject User Page Help (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellany page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep — xaosflux Talk 03:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject User Page Help

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This is WikiProject does not serve to add encyclopedic content - it serves to make userpages nice and pretty. We're here to build an encyclopedia, not to network socially. Also, I feel that the purpose of this WikiProject makes Wikipedia look more like your webhost. Maxim(talk) (contributions) 21:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete with fire. This isn't what our project is about. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:56, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep how does it serve Wikipedia? Well, it's obvious really. People waste less time on getting formatting of their userpages right, and start contributing something. Some people just like to have a cute userpage, and this project will just help them to make it as fast as possible. Now, for Jeffrey this project is obviously useless...  Grue  22:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Yes, Indeed. I love the way Grue put it. --Eye of the Mind 23:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. Carbon Monoxide 23:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Fixing up your user page can be a fun way for folks to learn wiki markup, and user pages can be fancy without violating WP:MYSPACE. Toohool 02:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a previous MFD on the page, by the way. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 02:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep My userpage is mainly used for works in progress and collaboration and will likely stay that way. But, I just checked out this project and found it quite useful, got ideas from it that I may even use. Userpages are useful, in fact, we should be encouraging more people to create articles and especially projects in userspace instead of launching them before they are fully developed. Both the content advice and the format advice are well organized.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 04:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. With respect for the nomination and deletion arguments, effective userpages convey useful information that helps editors collaborate. Ineffective userpages are divisive and distracting so it makes sense to have a project that facilitates good ones. Not an area where I'd prioritize my own time, but I see some potential for overall benefit to the encyclopedia. I hope they put a share of their energies into preventing MySpace-ish activity. DurovaCharge! 07:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really strong keep Doesn't just help with userpages. A load of the stuff can be used in the mainspace too. It could also help newbies learn some of the more complex wikimarkup--Phoenix 15 09:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Then why not start a WikiProject Wikimarkup, instead of keeping a project that supposedly helps users create a user page? A lot of requests for user page design (not related to this project) have ended up in someone else doing all the work, rather than learning about the code behind it all. ~ Sebi [talk] 09:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not an argument for deletion, but an argument for creating another project, or renaming this one. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 18:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. No, it doesn't directly contribute to our main goals of writing the encyclopedia, and yes, some people make their userpages a bit too MySpacey. Nevertheless, it seems harmless at worst, and as people pointed out above, it could be kinda helpful at teaching newbies wikimarkup by example, and also at teaching them what they should and shouldn't have in userspace. --krimpet⟲ 11:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - does no harm, can be helpful in perhaps indicating to editors what should and shouldn't be on their talk pages, and may help to actually make userpages more useful to other editors regarding a given editor's activities and interests, all of which benefit the encyclopedia at least a little. John Carter 16:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per my reasoning in the essay Wikipedia:Editors matter. This is a textbook case of a project which strengthens the community and helps to recruit and retain contributors by making people happier. Every good-faith contributor is valued, and if the lure of creating a pretty userpage draws them further into editing, then that can only be good for the encyclopedia. Also, consider the fact that deleting this project will serve no purpose. As we all know, deletions don't free up server space. Encyclopedic content has to be deleted when it doesn't meet Wikipedia's strict content policies and guidelines; however, in projectspace MfDs, the burden of proof is on the nominator to clearly demonstrate that the page is actively harming Wikipedia, or that its deletion will be beneficial. I don't see that here. WaltonOne 20:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I agree with Grue's reasoning here. Many people get confused and bogged down with complex code while trying to sort their pages out, but could be out editing articles, and coping fine with the relatively simple wikimarkup they encounter there. Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 20:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because I am currently creating my userpage and this page helps me a lot. Virtlink 14:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I assume that the nominators realise that the deletion of this project means a return to the endless {{helpme}}s and talk page requests to admins asking for help on user page design that existed beforehand? A certain level of MySpacery is always going to exist on teh interweb, whichever site it is. Confining it to a bored corner of the 'pedia saves experienced users from the requests and the accusations of biting that follow saying no or ignoring the request. If the nominators are aware of how things used to be, then I say delete, 'coz I know where to send people asking for user-page-prettification-help once it's gone. ➔ REDVEЯS was here 20:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snowball keep Goodness, where's you mind at, Maxim? Wikipedia is social software, an example is this very discussion. Better communication by between editors by improving Human Machine Interface cannot possibly be harmful, unless abused, and then it's a problem with the individual editors who do that, not with that page. Plus, every single keep argument above.--Victor falk 10:39, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. While I have reservations about people spending all their time designing and redesigning their userpages without contributing to the encyclopedia, this WikiProject has managed to bring together helpful and easy to understand pages on wikimarkup, what should and shouldn't be on a userpage, how to format images, etc. Much of the advice provided by this WikiProject can be applied to articles as well as userspace. If the opportunity to design a pleasing page serves as the "hook" to attract and retain a productive editor, then I'm all for it. --Kyoko 16:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - aside from my agreement with Walton and Kyoko in terms of social issues, I found over time that a mild interest in having a nice-looking user page greatly helped my understanding of wiki syntax, and has indeed also taught me a decent amount of CSS. I have applied the knowledge I learned playing with my userpage to help fix and create content templates on Wikipedia, and even make some edits in the MediaWiki namespace. As playing with one's userpage is generally OK, I see no problem with this WikiProject. Further, user pages which are "MySpacey" tend to be deleted at MfD anyway - the project has little effect outside of already somewhat established users, and among those, only ones who discover the project. Nihiltres(t.l) 02:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for a couple of reasons. First, it is a really useful wikimarkup and syntax guide, especially for those of us who are HTML-challenged. Userpages are a great place to practice those. Also, as Grue said, the faster they get done with it, the more time they have to contribute. Neranei (talk) 03:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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