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Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Red marquis/sandbox/Dead to the World Tour sandbox

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: Procedural G12 Deletion: Copyright Violation I'm explicitly noting however that if it wasn't for the copyright issues, there would be consensus to keep the article, and that there is consensus that the editor can retain similar material (provided it's not a copyright violation) in their userspace should they wish to do so in future. I'm regretfully closing this as a procedural deletion. Nick (talk) 15:27, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User:Red marquis/sandbox/Dead to the World Tour sandbox[edit]

User:Red marquis/sandbox/Dead to the World Tour sandbox (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Massive band tour article. It is largely primary source material rather than an encyclopedia article. Large chunks are from various pages on the Manson wiki - although it is a wiki, I cannot see any Creative Commons licence so we must assume its use is copyvio.

Given that Red marquis created Dead to the World Tour, an article of more reasonable size, I suggest that this stuff in his sandbox is a blatant case of using Wikipedia as a free host. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 18:35, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Earwig shows that they may be some copyvio of other sites. (Earwig Report) RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 20:48, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Direct quotations, primarily. I do this myself on occasion when working in my own sandbox. Homeostasis07 (talk) 21:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow Rhino, you just keep moving the goalpost. Now you're digging through its history? History that been deleted because I already got the information I needed from the article to paraphrase and use for the final product? WTF is this? -Red marquis (talk) 21:56, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I can confirm that none of the text found on the page in question has been copied from MansonWiki, but that users from MansonWiki have copied prose that I and other users have written on various Wikipedia articles, and pasted onto their website (while removing the sources, bizarrely enough). Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:08, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have no concern regarding MansonWiki. I will respond to the query at my talk page shortly. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 22:09, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A free host? Where do you get off? Sorry if I have a specific process for writing articles you don't share. I'm using the sand box as intended. I just need to have articles I'm using as sources handy so I won't have to overload my browser with open tabs day in and day out. Also, I don't have the luxury of being able to work on these articles 24/7. I have to have a place where I can save all the information I need to draw off of. I am not using my sand box in any way as a blog or anything approaching what is described in using Wikipedia as a free host. These sandboxes are for my use only to work on articles. Could it be both of you just don't like the content discussed in the articles? -Red marquis (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Mansonwiki? Why would I use a fan site as a source? Check everything. Everything here is sourced-none of which are from Mansonwiki. Prove Copyvio before you accuse me.-Red marquis (talk) 18:49, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RHaworth, the reason I haven't published any of the material I'm working on yet in Dead to the World Tour is because I'M NOT YET DONE. You do see the size of the material I'm working on, right? The article discusses a concert tour that spanned MORE THAN A YEAR LONG and had a lot of pushback from civic and religious leaders. Of course I'M STILL WORKING ON IT refining and condensing the damn thing to make it readable and passable enough for Wikipedia. -Red marquis (talk) 18:53, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
DO NOT DELETE THIS SANDBOX. I have spent the good portion of over a month working on it so I can add material to the Dead to the World Tour article when it's fit to publish. DO NOT DESTROY MY HARD WORK or I am DONE contributing to Wikipedia. -Red marquis (talk) 18:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
None of the tour diary material are sourced from Mansonwiki. They all came from Marilyn Manson's autobiography The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell which I happen to have a copy of. He included all of that in the book. Check my sources.-Red marquis (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Link posted by RhinosF1 shows this isn't copyvio, so I don't see what the issue is. Also don't buy the free host point. Homeostasis07 (talk) 20:14, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep obviously the user is still working on this and it is a valid topic. Legacypac (talk) 00:45, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - It's a sandbox draft, and it is still being worked. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Now Blanked. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 15:48, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not a threat at all. Since the page has been deleted. I'm done. -Red marquis (talk) 16:02, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It has not been hidden, just blanked. It can be found in the page history atm. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 16:26, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
RhinosF1, this behavior is unbecoming, to say the least. It's blatantly obvious that you didn't like the consensus being established here, so you decided to completely ignore it and try something else which had a better chance of working in your favor. You seriously haven't given me the impression thus far that you are possessing of the kind of temperament required to participate in these sorts of discussions on Wikipedia. Homeostasis07 (talk) 16:51, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've handled this within full policy grounds as a copyright issue, I was probably too nice. The article was listed at copyright problems and this discussion was made aware over 6hrs before it was blanked in accordance with policy (I clarified this with an admin on IRC before blanking). The content is still available until it is reviewed by the copyright team. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 16:57, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can make out, you've used Earwig's tool to try and claim that there are multiple copyvio issues, when the tool only indicates one "possible" problem with a single Desert News source. As explained above, everything else flagged is in fact a direct quotation. So instead of working with the editor to resolve one minor issue, you're blowing everything out of all proportion in multiple venues hoping to get your way. This is not indicative of an editor who knows how to act collaboratively. And now you're on the verge of pissing off a productive editor - who was probably on his way to bringing this article to GA or even FA - so thoroughly that they'll not edit Wikipedia for the next several years (which I don't doubt). Good job! Homeostasis07 (talk) 17:19, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As stated above, I acted in accordance with policy. I suggest you raise the concern on the copyright problems page where it is listed or on the article talk page to prevent potential deletion. The editor who created this has been extremely combative in their approach towards resolution and rude towards myself and other editors. I am discussion with an admin over what action can be taken in that regard and will comment further if needed when/if any case is brought. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 17:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why wouldn't I be "extremely combative?" It literally took me years to work up the courage and find the time to work on this article because I've been dreading the prospect of having to dig up information from as far back as 1996-1997. We all know how difficult it can be to comb the internet for information from before the turn of the century. Homeostasis07 has some knowledge of my editing history here in Wikipedia and he can tell you the first time I poured effort on this site was nearly nine years ago on Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death) which has now reached FA. Writing that article was a 9 month nightmare that put me off working on Wikipedia (solely because of how much of a nightmare researching it was) until about a couple of years ago when I finally worked to bring Beautiful Monsters Tour to GA. Now, a month after I started on this article and it's starting to get into shape, you come in out of nowhere, and upend all of that. Why wouldn't I suddenly think wasting my time and effort on this site is suddenly not worth it? -Red marquis (talk) 20:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the fact that you don't want to lose your work and sympathise with you regarding the difficulty of article writing but I stand by my decisions to ask for a copyright review. I've emailed WP:ARBCOM asking for thier opinion on the issue of user conduct so won't comment further than that. RhinosF1(chat)(status)(contribs) 20:19, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, per Homeostasis07 / Robert McClenon. This is not egregiously harmful, if harmful at all, and Red marquis is obviously actively working on this draft. This is especially not WP:NOTWEBHOST material; it's written in the style of an encyclopaedia article, albeit a messy unfinished one. That's absolutely fine - this is a draft, after all. -- a. get in the spam hole | get nosey 13:24, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


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