Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User Pro-Russian

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 11:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User Pro-Russian

Created by a user blocked for sockpuppetry, this rather obscure (barely used) userbox could easily be interpreted as supportive of the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. — Sundostund mppria ^{(talk / contribs)} 14:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am probably against any userbox that uses the specific wording "X is a threat", because this language is inherently propagandistic. Such language essentially sounds a bell to like-minded people to band together against the threat. And calls out members of the implied opposing group as a part of that threat or being aligned with the threat. It's especially foreboding to stop at "threat" and not say what kind of threat, as then it particularly sounds like existential, ultimate, threat. It's friend-enemy rhetoric. I would treat any "X is a threat" wording as divisive wording that isn't acceptable under the relevant guideline.—Alalch E. 22:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and Wikipedia should be neutral on such issues. Crainsaw 16:00, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - If you have one, you've gotta have the other. --⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:15, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as WP:POLEMIC content. Wikipedia is not a forum for the expression of controversial opinions. And before I'm accused of a double standard, yes, the solution is to delete all userspace content that supports a side in any war. If you can't hold in your opinions on a war, get a Twitter account (or heck, enlist). Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know this is going to get me accused of WP:WAX, but we have plenty of userboxes who are explicitly pro-Ukraine and anti-Russia. Wikipedia should not engage in the prosecution of thoughtcrime committed by users holding unpopular positions, and it is not a foregone conclusion that every rational person in the English-speaking world would necessarily be anti-Russian. Based on your comment, I want to know whether you agree that the solution to this type of situation is that we nominate all userboxes regarding the Russo-Ukrainian War for deletion, and if you do not agree, explain why you are compelled to that position. WP:NONAZIS is not a valid argument because this is not an extension of the Nazi ideology. ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:01, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia works best with a collaborative atmosphere. Political userspace content harms that collaborative atmosphere and potentially chases away new editors, and it gives us very little benefit in return. Therefore, the greatest net positive to the project would be to delete political userspace content. I don't think a huge number of enwiki editors would be put off by pro-Ukraine content (and pro-invader users probably wouldn't last long on enwiki anyway), but once we pick and choose when to apply WP:SOAPBOX, then we've fallen into that thoughtcrime trap. I would have been in favor of the proposal above this one to delete all political userboxes had it been at an appropriate venue. Like I said, if someone wants to soapbox, regardless of the cause, they should do it on Twitter, not Wikipedia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:34, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and ban anyone who uses it per Wikipedia:NONAZI Delete per OP 73.68.72.229 (talk) 12:30, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I am pretty sure extremists supporting genocide are not welcome on Wikipedia, as long as that is the case, I don't see why this should be an exception for ″free speech″. Especially not when it was created by a blocked WP:NOTHERE sockpuppet account. --TylerBurden (talk) 02:48, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Standard Russian perspective, reasonably put. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: We should respect different viewpoints even if we don't like them. I've seen many userboxes on Wikipedia that have baffled, amused, frustrated or even slightly angered me and I'm not a fan of this one either. Yet my personal views on the matter, however thinly veiled they might be by some other justifications, are not a good enough motivation or reason for removal of this content. --Pitsarotta (talk) 16:44, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(already commented above) Keep but remove "threat" verbiage per my initial comment in this MfD. (Change to "disapproves of ..." or something similar). I'm really against "x is a threat"-style proclamations, and I believe them to clearly be against the relevant guideline.—Alalch E. 22:11, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. (though poorly written, a "threat" to who or what?) Who decides which are the good opinions? It does not make any call for any kind of violence on any one or any group. If the proponent aims to delete most userboxes with political opinions, I might agree - though I like to know who feels strongly about this or that, it is not very useful for WP. Interest userboes are usefull, political not as much, I may ask a geology lover an opinion about some rock, I would not ask a "granite lover" about other rocks... - Nabla (talk) 00:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions, and as long as the opinions don't affect Wikipedia's content, I don't see any harm of keeping this kind of userbox. Timothytyy (talk) 10:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Without phrase about "threat", it's just "This user is Pro-Russian". And there's nothing bad per se in being pro-Russian (it's being pro-Putin or pro-invasion that is problem). But then UBX becomes redudant, since we already have Template:User in Russia with options "81" or "55". Comrade a!rado🇷🇺 (C🪆T) 10:56, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.